So, is poison just useless?


Advice

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Rinse heavily, pull from the fingertips (through the glove material), then boil heavily to denature or even boil-off the toxic chemicals. Complex organic molecules don't hold together very well.

I mean, let's be fair, unless the toxin is absorbed through the skin it should be very difficult to poison yourself from just handling it. The universal 5% poison yourself rule is made for game-rule and/or plot reasons, not because it's particularly realistic. This is not a complaint on my part, just an observation.

BS-ing up an explanation for how you invented latex gloves that can be removed and disposed of without touching the material is not going to change the fact that you're breaking the rules if you use poison without poison use or risk of hurting yourself. If you're tossing out a rule, just toss it out.


Poison is useful in a lot of scenarios. Especially if you are using high DC poisons against things that have horrible fortitude saves, such as arcane spellcasters, rogues, etc. We used a large amount of arsenic to poison an entire fortress of border guards in prep for letting in an attack force of Scottish bugbears in one game. It worked quite well in the weekly stew delivered to the garrison by an old woman sweet on the soldier boys so far from home. Also, hitting someone with multiple poisons makes the saves harder, and you can use it for assassination, blackmail, debilitating traps, and guerilla warfare. It just requires prep work. Say poison is useless when you are going into the goblin lair and fall on a spiked pit trap that has curare smeared on the spikes. If you want a great resource on poison both magical and real, get a copy of the Assassin's Handbook by Green Ronin Publishing. It's 3.0, but the mechanics of poison don't really change that much and can easily be adapted into the longer lasting, lower ability damage of Pathfinder. They also have metapoison feats that allow you to heighten the DC of poisons, make them do more ability damage, etc.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

My sorcerer died thanks to giant spider poison. The Con damage didn't kill him, but by the time he managed to make the two saves, he was at an effective 7 Con. A lesser restoration got him to 9.

Then he took a spellstriked shocking grasp for enough HP damage to take him to -9.


The best use of poison I've ever found for use by a player-

Bloodrager with a focus on natural attacks. Eldritch Heritage for a bite that does Con damage, scales with your level with a boost when you rage.

Free action to grow the fangs and no gold cost associated.


Hitting the target with multiple doses is a great way to up the DC... provided they actually fail an initial save. If they don't fail the first save to get poisoned in the first place then the DC never goes up. If the poison runs its course before they're hit with it again the DC never goes up (and many poisons last for rounds at most). If the target is alerted to poison being a consideration there's far too many ways to stop it (and a cantrip to detect it). Antitoxin is dirt cheap and +5 to the save is pretty high. Arsenic has a base DC 13, the chance of that working is 50% or worse for a first level NPC with a good Fort save. Hell, it's only 60% or worse for one with a bad Fort save. Higher level character or monsters? Hope they roll a one, because your odds aren't improving.

The only way to get those multiple doses at once are with ingested and inhaled poisons, which is why most of the guides focus on how to change the poison to one of those (inhaled, I think) so you can actually force multiple saves. And if it's an inhaled poison they can hold their breath for Con rounds (if they take full round actions) and only have to make the save 50% of the time.

In summation, poisons are great at killing off people you could probably have just stabbed and beaten much easier.


Ah found one of my old build. Not that it's particular relavant just amusing thoughts.

Nagaji, or human with the racial trait thingy so I can take favored bonus for alchemist. Resulting in higher dc of crafted poisons.
Alchemist Vivi into Daggermark poisonr. Focusing on ranged.
You can get poison trap, and launch trap from Daggermark.

SoIt gets pretty easy to either shoot traps directly on someone, with your crafted poison which gets a bonus from Trapster, and if valid for sneak attack gets the DC bonus from that or use the preprepped traps to litter the battlefield with traps. If you have it, venom arrow sla can be used as well to try two different poisons with decentish dcs. At the least the trapster and the sneak attack die to DC can make poison made from a poisoner's jacket not the worst. (though that item is costy in the first place)

nothing special honestly but just highly amusing for me.

probably not really a thread for it but eh.. it's pretty well agreed it s hard to use poison happily.

Does anyone know a thread or guide (other than N.Jolly's nifty one) that lists the various feats, items, poisons etc available in pathfinder?
If not.. I might try making something like one.. After I buy the alchemy manuel later this month. don't really know all the sources outside of whats on the PRD and alchemy manual. i' msure there is more


My problem with poisons is that it falls flat both in the gamist and the realist sense. So kinda like crafting I guess.


thenovalord wrote:

Terrifying in early dnd

Nearly pointless in 3.x
Nicely fixed in 5th btw

4th ed so scared me away from them I'm afraid to ask but what did they do to make poison work in 5th? I absolutely hate how worthless poisons work currently in Pathfinder.


Kthulhu wrote:
I miss poisons that still had an effect even if you made the save. Good old Death/40 damage. (That means fail the save, you die. Make the save, you still take 40 points of damage.)

That's pretty much how I would consider houseruling poisons. No initial fort negates save unless it is for an initial effect or non-ability damage effect (i.e. unconscious). From there it would be save for half each time it ticks until you make the required number of saves. The pricing issues are more problematic though.


Oh, if you are a vishkanya your poison is pretty usable!

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