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At this point, PF has been out as long as 3.5, longer, if one includes the open playtest.
In the beginning, that backward compatibility was a lifeline to keep existing players from jumping ship for the new shiny, and it gained the nickname 'D&D 3.75', implying that material could be ported seamlessly, but after all this time, they really should be considered separate games.
I'm sympathetic to the view that the Rogue probably deserves an ability that allows taking 10 on UMD, and wouldn't oppose it, if it became official, but as yet, it isn't.
But watch out for unintended consequences. Make sure before you do, that there's no way for other classes to choose or emulate the Rogue's Advanced Talents, or else you're back to square one, with the Rogue having all his toys taken off him on Boxing Day, and given to the richer kids down the street.
As for reasons why UMD differs from other skills, it helps to think of it as 'magical hacking'. To fool an item, you have to second-guess the security features built in by the crafter, and think like they would think.
Most times, PCs don't have a clue who crafted their items, and it's akin to playing sudden-death rock/paper/scissors with Schroedinger's Cat, via play-by-post.
Having no distractions doesn't make it any more likely you'll guess right.
The reason you can't take 10 on UMD is because the skill is intrinsically stressful and distracting, barring any other explanation.
No - the reason you can't take 10 on UMD is because the rules explicitly say you can't take 10 on UMD. It says nothing about stressful and distracting. It just says that you can't do it.
Sure. From the 3.5 FAQ:
Can a rogue with skill mastery take 10 on a Use Magic Device check?
No. The rogue’s skill mastery class feature states that “she can take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.” This only applies to skills that allow a character to take 10 in nonstressful situations; if a skill simply doesn’t allow a character to take 10 under any circumstances (such as Use Magic Device), skill mastery provides no benefit.The warlock’s deceive item class feature (CAr8) allows him to take 10 on Use Magic Device checks “even if distracted or threatened,” but the Use Magic Device skill says you can’t ever take 10, regardless of distraction. Does deceive item also let the warlock ignore this restriction?
This class feature really does two things. First, it allows the warlock to take 10 on Use Magic Device skill checks (a boon all by itself). Second, it allows him to take 10 on such checks even in conditions where that would normally not be possible.
Ok so that settles it then, the intent of skill mastery is the same as the rules and the intent of decieve item goes against the rule.
Thank you for digging that up Jeff Merola.
Sure. From the 3.5 FAQ:
Can a rogue with skill mastery take 10 on a Use Magic Device check?
No. The rogue’s skill mastery class feature states that “she can take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.” This only applies to skills that allow a character to take 10 in nonstressful situations; if a skill simply doesn’t allow a character to take 10 under any circumstances (such as Use Magic Device), skill mastery provides no benefit.The warlock’s deceive item class feature (CAr8) allows him to take 10 on Use Magic Device checks “even if distracted or threatened,” but the Use Magic Device skill says you can’t ever take 10, regardless of distraction. Does deceive item also let the warlock ignore this restriction?
This class feature really does two things. First, it allows the warlock to take 10 on Use Magic Device skill checks (a boon all by itself). Second, it allows him to take 10 on such checks even in conditions where that would normally not be possible.
Perfect. So, those who wanted to argue intent from 3.5 are you now willing to concede that 3.5 leads no credence to your argument here?
So in the previous incarnation of the game the answer was no.
Based on the current rules of Pathfinder the answer is still no. There is no FAQ necessary to clarify it's current functionality.
If you want to start a new thread and petition for a change in how Skill Mastery works, I'll join you. Hell, throw the rogue a bone. But don't keep insisting the ability does something that it clearly does not.
If you want to start a new thread and petition for a change in how Skill Mastery works, I'll join you. Hell, throw the rogue a bone. But don't keep insisting the ability does something that it clearly does not.
Same here.
Sure. From the 3.5 FAQ:
Can a rogue with skill mastery take 10 on a Use Magic Device check?
No. The rogue’s skill mastery class feature states that “she can take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.” This only applies to skills that allow a character to take 10 in nonstressful situations; if a skill simply doesn’t allow a character to take 10 under any circumstances (such as Use Magic Device), skill mastery provides no benefit.The warlock’s deceive item class feature (CAr8) allows him to take 10 on Use Magic Device checks “even if distracted or threatened,” but the Use Magic Device skill says you can’t ever take 10, regardless of distraction. Does deceive item also let the warlock ignore this restriction?
This class feature really does two things. First, it allows the warlock to take 10 on Use Magic Device skill checks (a boon all by itself). Second, it allows him to take 10 on such checks even in conditions where that would normally not be possible.Perfect. So, those who wanted to argue intent from 3.5 are you now willing to concede that 3.5 leads no credence to your argument here?
So in the previous incarnation of the game the answer was no.
Based on the current rules of Pathfinder the answer is still no. There is no FAQ necessary to clarify it's current functionality.
If you want to start a new thread and petition for a change in how Skill Mastery works, I'll join you. Hell, throw the rogue a bone. But don't keep insisting the ability does something that it clearly does not.
Seems like a reasonable house-rule to me.
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and,
is Skill Mastery the specific case that overrides the general ban on taking 10 with UMD,
or,
is Use Magic Device's ban on taking 10 the specific case that overrides SM's general take 10 privilege?plus
At 10th level, the bard can use any skill, even if the skill normally requires him to be trained. At 16th level, the bard considers all skills to be class skills. At 19th level, the bard can take 10 on any skill check, even if it is not normally allowed.is this ability the same or simply better?
An example of another class doing something better than the rogue? Never, I say, never!
We really can't look to 3.5 for anything anymore.
At least, not without expecting something to be completely different, even if the wording is identical.
Look what happened to two-weapon fighting.
I am assuming you are referring to the two-handed weapon used with TWF issue.
That is an errata to me, not a clarification.
I am guessing they could not word it to stop the text from spilling over onto the next page.
Which issue?
Which issue?
In 3.5 you could use two handed weapons while two weapon fighting, meaning I could use a great axe and armor spikes. In Pathfinder this is no longer allowed.
Which issue?In 3.5 you could use two handed weapons while two weapon fighting, meaning I could use a great axe and armor spikes. In Pathfinder this is no longer allowed.
That sounds a bit familiar, it's a recent change, correct? a FAQ?