In the campaign I am about to run, a player of a Wizard wants to have a Fire Mephit familiar. I told him I would grant Improved Familiar for free, and that he could further improve his familiar by taking Leadership (in which case I thought I would grant the Fire Mephit class levels).
What I want to know is, does the table on p83 of the core rulebook stack with Improved Familiars? The mephit already has 3 natural armor, does the +4 natural armor from that table stack with the 3 a base mephit already has? Do improved familiars get the boosted Intelligence etc?
How does one determine the CR of a familiar? I need to know because the player is intending to grant it class levels through Leadership.
Do familiars get the +1 to one attribute every 4 levels?
Actually he won't get the familiar until 7th level.
I understand that they are already an option. I just want to know how to implement that option.
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In the campaign I am about to run, a player of a Wizard wants to have a Fire Mephit familiar. I told him I would grant Improved Familiar for free, and that he could further improve his familiar by taking Leadership (in which case I thought I would grant the Fire Mephit class levels).
What I want to know is, does the table on p83 of the core rulebook stack with Improved Familiars? The mephit already has 3 natural armor, does the +4 natural armor from that table stack with the 3 a base mephit already has? Do improved familiars get the boosted Intelligence etc?
How does one determine the CR of a familiar? I need to know because the player is intending to grant it class levels through Leadership.
Do familiars get the +1 to one attribute every 4 levels?
well normal\improved familiers unlike animal companians do not get better HD. they keep what they have, but their hp is 1/2 of master. for their HD depanded abilities they use the master's HD.
i would guess that even if you do increase the familier hd as a cohort. he will have a total HD less then the master and still use the master's HD for his abilities (since a cohort has lessthen leader levels). what he would gain from having his own HD increase is abilities increase more skill points and feats. also some findish and celestial familiers would probebly get the higher HD abilities of their tamplate.
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Stick with the basics, grant him Improved Familiar if you'd like at 7th level for free but familiars already have an advancement as "zza ni" said so trying to stack Leadership only makes things more complicated and contradictory to the Familiars advancement rules. If he'd like to take leadership, let him have an apprentice or something that the familiar can boss around or vice-versa. A familiar should not be the main character or the focus of the entire character, they are merely an extension of the wizard.
EDIT: Also if you stack things like this you risk making the familiar more stronger than it really should be and thus tick off the other players that feel their character isn't as good as the familiar. I tried joining a local pathfinder homegame and one of the players was allowed to have some kind of rogue/warrior character that could teleport at will as a free action. Needless to say, my rogue felt very useless and I never went back.
In short, you run the risk of making the familiar overshadow other players if you try to empower it more than what it's designed to be.
Well, basically familiars, even Improved Familiar pumped, are pretty useless in a fight.
That's why I thought that adding class levels to a familiar might pump it up enough to act as a cohort via Leadership.
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Well, basically familiars, even Improved Familiar pumped, are pretty useless in a fight.
That's why I thought that adding class levels to a familiar might pump it up enough to act as a cohort via Leadership.
Mephits can use wands. If you want to make the Mephit more useful, instead grant the Wizard to have Use Magic Device as a class skill. If he puts ranks in it every level he should have at least +10 in UMD, using the Mephit's ability modifier it should have a +12 in UMD. That's a 60% chance to succeed on UMD'ing any wand. Throw in a couple level 1-4 wands in loot over time or they can spend money to buy wands. A mephit UMD'ing a wand of Lightning Bolt or running around helping the party with a wand of Cure Mod Wounds can be really useful in fights.
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Most wizards don't want their familiars getting into combat. A familiar's death has painful consequences for the wizard. If you and your player want the wizard to have a battle buddy, consider the following alternatives.
1. Play a summoner. You get strong spell casting and the eidolon does the fighting.
2. Play a sylvan sorcerer. The animal companion does the fighting.
3. Have the wizard focus on summoning.
4. Have the wizard make his own followers by crafting constructs.
Just my 2cp.
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Most wizards don't want their familiars getting into combat. A familiar's death has painful consequences for the wizard. If you and your player want the wizard to have a battle buddy, consider the following alternatives.
1. Play a summoner. You get strong spell casting and the eidolon does the fighting.
2. Play a sylvan sorcerer. The animal companion does the fighting.
3. Have the wizard focus on summoning.
4. Have the wizard make his own followers by crafting constructs.
Just my 2cp.
These are good suggestions. A Wizard can select a Homunculus as an improved familiar. If you'd like, you could houserule that the Wizard is able to "upgrade" the Homunculus after creating it and you could cut the upgrade cost in half or something.
Otherwise it sounds like the character wants to play a Summoner or a Sorcerer with a bloodline access to an Animal Companion.
Familiars are typically an out of combat companion to converse, roleplay, and aid in skill checks. Heck, the improved ones make good house maids. But if he's looking for an in combat pet "supervillan's" suggestions are spot on as the death of a familiar can be painful due to cost and etc.
Why suggest a homonculus?
I like the idea of a familiar using wands via Use Magic Device. I will put it to the player as an idea instead of Leadership.
How do I give the familiar UMD as a class skill?
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Why suggest a homonculus?
I like the idea of a familiar using wands via Use Magic Device. I will put it to the player as an idea instead of Leadership.
How do I give the familiar UMD as a class skill?
Homunculus are allowed to naturally have their hit dice increased based on how much money is spent on constructing. As mentioned in the PFS FAQ there's little need to increase the hit dice of a familiar though as the "familiar's hit points and abilities are based on the character's stats rather than its own Hit Dice." Link here.
You could do the same with a Fire Mephit but like above, the familiar's hit dice and abilities are based on the character's stats so they aren't really getting much out of the process. You could homebrew this but I think you may make thing more complex and difficult than things need to be as it seems you're not 100% familiar with the in's and out's of familiars in general.
If you're willing to homebrew adding hit dice onto a familiar I don't see any difficulty in either just giving the familiar UMD as a class skill or just allowing the Wizard to add his +3 class skill bonus to his total ranks that the Mephit can opt to use if it's higher than the Mephit's skill ranks. I think either of these options are your best bet if they are really set on having a mephit familiar. Familiars that can use wands are pretty powerful as it doubles the player's action economy and depending on the spell, wands can be really useful.
I will think about it. Still, the idea of giving Sorcerer levels to a familiar is a neat idea.
as for failier in battle idk about pathfinder. im still a bit new to it.
but back in 3.0 i had a wizard with improved familier shock lizard. and 5X extra familier feat(more shock lizards). anything that gets too close got 12d6 of electric damage each round. was pretty sweet(untill the lich fight...)
No, eidolons are far too potent. They typically take the place of the party warrior, and I can't have the spotlight stolen from the PC's for an NPC.
I wanted something in the middle, something approximately the power of a cohort, to pump up a familiar.
I sure hope the new familiar supplement that's coming out soon has feats in it designed to buff up familiars.
Wizards are already insanely powerful. Wizards with an improved familiar wand monkey are even more powerful - you're getting more spells per round than you ordinarily should, can resolve action economy buffing issues, etc. Your idea is to increase this already overshadowing combination even more by giving the familiar actual class levels?
Summoners themselves are pretty meh, but the eidolon is relatively powerful (because that's the point of the class). It's an even trade off.
Obviously it's your game and you can do with it whatever you like. All I'm saying is, if you're worried about an eidolon being overpowered, what's going to happen when you boost an improved familiar of what is inarguably already the strongest class in the game?
If you want the wizard to have a cohort, why don't you just let the wizard take leadership to get a cohort? Are you going to let a druid's AC take levels in barbarian?
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what fretgod99 said... when in doubt follow the rules... if you want to boost the familiar instead of giving him doubtful homerule boost leadership fusion, give the familiar a free 30,000gp magic item of the player's choice, for example... at least that perk can be taken back by judicious application of roguery, if all else fails...
As a Rules Question, similar to what happened when people tried to argue they wanted to further enchant a Black Blade, the charts will lack compatibility, the answer will be Leadership can't be applied to a Familiar/Improved Familiar because the rules don't allow for it.
Piccolo, I've noticed your last "Rules Question" threads (this and ring of impr. invisibility) ask how to do things that aren't clearly/cleanly present in the rules. Just wanted to point out to you that there is a "Suggestions/House Rule/Homebrew" Forum around here for just that, where you can discuss with people how to do things 'outside the box'.
Actually, the Ring of Improved Invisibility is in the rules, it's just not premade and ready in the book.
You can put a spell of up to 4th level into a ring, as I recall. Wonder if there's such a thing as a magic item that grants a permanent Protection From Evil?
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Any custom item is priced by GM Fiat and therefore not in the book and there are things the rules don't cover such as what you are asking about in this thread. Leadership and the familiar rule do not interact.
Actually, the Ring of Improved Invisibility is in the rules, it's just not premade and ready in the book.
Partially true as you've had pointed out to you in that thread, the Ring of Invisibility has a markup not detailed in the rules and the rules tell you as a GM when allowing new items to apply common sense (lol ninja'd by Wraithstrike, who said it better) as some will come out stronger, or potentially weaker, than the math might apply. How you allow those two to combine when you allow a ring of Improved invisibility is outside the rules.
Anyway, I have no dog in the fight of either of your posts. I was just pointing out if you want discussion as to how to do things that aren't cleanly in (i.e. this) or aren't clearly in (i.e. the ring) the rules then there is another forum here made specifically to focus on those issues. That forum, and the Advice forum, has some overlap with here but how you use that is up to you (unless the mods move it for you). Just know in this forum many will just say "it's not in the rules", because that is the correct rules answer in the rules question forum, where as in the other forums people will be posting solely to help you find a way to make it work.
Well, the reason why I posted the questions here is that I wanted to know what the rules were on the subject.
See, I didn't know if I was reading the book wrong.
"Natural Armor Adj.: The number noted here is in addition to the familiar's existing natural armor bonus."The mephit already has 3 natural armor, does the +4 natural armor from that table stack with the 3 a base mephit already has? Do improved familiars get the boosted Intelligence etc?
How does one determine the CR of a familiar? I need to know because the player is intending to grant it class levels through Leadership.
Do familiars get the +1 to one attribute every 4 levels?
NA stacks
Int is set to table value. Many Imp Familiars become stupid relative to base creature. Luckily, the Fire Mephit is not one of these.
CR has nothing to do with Leadership, unless it is a slight association with character level needed before can gain creature.
When a creature gains a fourth HD/level, it gets a stat point. Familiars don't gain HD/levels, so they never gain stat points or skill points.
Actually, the Ring of Improved Invisibility is in the rules, it's just not premade and ready in the book.
You can put a spell of up to 4th level into a ring, as I recall. Wonder if there's such a thing as a magic item that grants a permanent Protection From Evil?
Actually, the book has rules for how to define such a ring, but there is no such thing already.
Potions have a 3rd level limit.
Wands have a 4th level limit.
Rings do not have a level limit. Remember the Ring of Three Wishes?
I don't think any other items have level limits.
/cevah
Say a fire Mephit took a level of Sorcerer. Does this stack with the "6th level caster" it has for the spells it already gets for being a Mephit?
Hello?
The Faerie Dragon is a 3rd level sorcerer, so it would stack with that. However, the mephit is just a creature with SLAs and a caster level, so that would not stack. However, if you get it more HD not from class levels, that would increase CL.
/cevah
PS: Usual bump time is 24 hours. :-)