Hello all,
In one of my current campaigns one of my player's is trying to build a construct that is Animated Armor. Basically its a Full-Plate, living steel suit that has been permanently Animated. My question is, how does the HP, AC, hardness and armor HP work?
Now the animated objects have templates for them, with AC and Hp. But what im not understanding is, how will this thing take damage and die?
I get that rule wise it probably has normal AC and Hp but it doesn't make sense to me. You take a set of armors creature HP to 0? How would the armor die? Or is it that you have to 'sunder' it to destroy it. In that case, does Hardness act as DR? Or is it even that if the regular HP goes to 0, it just becomes disabled until it's healed?
You damage it so hard so magic cannot hold to it anymore and go away?
When construct is reduced to 0 HP it is destroyed.
If rule does not make sense to you then make your own.
Is this armor simply an empty suit or is the character attempting to wear it? Constructs are creatures, not objects, and are treated as such--you attack them directly rather than sun sundering them, you don't usually wear them since they usually can't share a space with an ally, and unlike other creatures they are destroyed when they run out of hit points.
One of the bestiaries has rules for costing constructs, so start from there when figuring out its stats and the like.
It's an empty suite of armor. Actually, he's attempting to make it intelligent as well so it's considered a creature I believe?
What if he animates intelligent full-plate?
Alright, ill look into that. Does that say what happens when animated armor is attacked? It just seems odd for it to 'die' at 0 HP.
Alright, ill look into that. Does that say what happens when animated armor is attacked? It just seems odd for it to 'die' at 0 HP.
It dies. Doesn't matter if that seems odd to you - that is what happens when any animated object (or similar creature like a golem) reaches 0 hp. That is a function of the Construct creature type (which is what an Animated Object it).
Not at risk of death from massive damage. Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less.
@Jerra: Alright? I dont really know why you felt the need to tell me it doesnt matter if it seems odd to me or not... But thanks?
I dont know. I think I'd rule it it becomes disabled until fully repaired. Unless of course it does actually get destroyed that normal armor most likely would.
It is disabled until fully repaired. In this case though, fully repairing includes recasting the magical enchantments that gave it a semblance of life.
One of this risks of building a construct is that if the thing goes down, you are out a lot of gold.
So Animate Object, permanent would need to be recast on it?
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Keep in mind, hardness is 'better' then DR because hardly anything bypasses it.
You can have both if you want, its your monster.
For a homebrew monster (evil animate weapons possessed by undead spirits) I gave them DR /and/ hardness. But that's because I'm an evil jerk.
What doesn't get through hardness? Smite. Barbarian rage powers that increase the DR/bypass on abilities (even if they get to +5, this means they bypass material requirements but don't take on those requirements).
Also spells are less effective against hardness (energy spells get halved in effectiveness right out of the gate) which makes for another hideously useful combo on monster design if you put on a resistance.
@Jerra: Alright? I dont really know why you felt the need to tell me it doesnt matter if it seems odd to me or not... But thanks?
I dont know. I think I'd rule it it becomes disabled until fully repaired. Unless of course it does actually get destroyed that normal armor most likely would.
It was a blunt way of saying, "you are asking what happens in the rules forum" and probably could have been phrased better. The rules tend to have oddities that don't make sense or sit well with people, but they are the rules. Once you start getting into "I don't think it should work that way" you start heading into suggestions/homebrew territory about how you think it should work. The rules forum is for hashing out how it does work, then once you've established that, you can start a thread in the advice or suggestions forum if you need to work on an alternate rules.
There are certain creature types that just "die" at 0 hit points, constructs and undead being the common ones. Constructs typically aren't living creatures and have no metabolic system, so they stop "being" once they hit that point. The forces that held them together, destroyed and dispersed. Incidentally, they tend to get bonus hp (depending on size) to make up for that as well if I remember correctly.
So Animate Object, permanent would need to be recast on it?
EDIT: Actually you cannot animate a magical object, an intelligent suit of armor would not be a valid target for the spell. You would have to look into the construct creation rules for an intelligent construct.//
Yes, also I believe there is a ruling indicating that once a corpse is used in to create an undead, if the undead creature is destroyed. The corpse cannot be used to make an undead creature again. It would make sense to apply that to your situation as well.
In general animated objects and constructs are a "gold sink" due to the fact they allow you to bypass action economy, which is a large part of the game rule set. Getting two or more sets of action is a HUGE benefit balance wise. That is why there are rather strict limitations on classes that get companions or additional "help" (familiars and the like).
Once an undead creature is destroyed, the corpse is so mangled and beaten up it is useless for further undead creation. Once you put the materials together for a golem, when it is destroyed you still need to collect a whole set of materials for a new one. Following the existing rules trend, it is quite possible that the animated object used could be considered destroyed after being used by the spell due to it being roughly treated in a way it wasn't intended to be (things get destroyed by misuse all the time in reality).
@Skylancer4: Ah I see. You're right, this is the rules section, not suggestions/homebrew.
I also see what you're saying as far as balance wise. It would be a bit much now that I think of it to have let's say three of these things that only get disabled.
So in conclusion, let me get this straight. It acts as a regulat creature as far as HP and AC. That particular construct cannot be animated again, the same as an undead and the player must do the whole process over again?
@Skylancer4: Ah I see. You're right, this is the rules section, not suggestions/homebrew.
I also see what you're saying as far as balance wise. It would be a bit much now that I think of it to have let's say three of these things that only get disabled.
So in conclusion, let me get this straight. It acts as a regulat creature as far as HP and AC. That particular construct cannot be animated again, the same as an undead and the player must do the whole process over again?
There is nothing in the rules that says that is the case, there is nothing that doesn't say it, for animated objects in particular. The parallel rules for the other similar cases say you cannot, so that is what I would go with in our games.
But the rest is correct. You essentially get another creature for the casting of the spell. Due to the amount of money you would have to spend to make it permanent and the vulnerability to Dispel Magic, the spell Animate Object is often a poor choice to get a "companion" unless there is a specific reason for it.
Your best bet is the construct creation rules, they have fleshed out the core rules a little bit since the original bestiary. I think there is an option for adding intelligence via a brain jar or some such. The nice thing about the game rules is, you can alter the "fluff" or flavor text as you need to fit your situation. Just because the rules say "brain in a jar" doesn't necessarily mean it has to be that, as long as the rules mechanics are still in place using an alternate explanation that doesn't give more benefit or drawback, it doesn't really matter how it is described.
The major drawback to constructs, is they don't advance. So even if you keep them alive during your adventures, eventually they are ineffective and the gold used is essentially "lost" and unrecoverable. Just something to keep in mind.
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Keep in mind, hardness is 'better' then DR because hardly anything bypasses it.
You can have both if you want, its your monster.
For a homebrew monster (evil animate weapons possessed by undead spirits) I gave them DR /and/ hardness. But that's because I'm an evil jerk.
What doesn't get through hardness? Smite. Barbarian rage powers that increase the DR/bypass on abilities (even if they get to +5, this means they bypass material requirements but don't take on those requirements).
Also spells are less effective against hardness (energy spells get halved in effectiveness right out of the gate) which makes for another hideously useful combo on monster design if you put on a resistance.
An adamantine weapon will bypass hardness. Adamantine weapon blanch will not though.
An adamantine weapon will bypass hardness. Adamantine weapon blanch will not though.
Adamantine only ignores hardness that is less than 20. Adamantine can not ignore the hardness of adamantine (which has hardness 20).
Also spells are less effective against hardness (energy spells get halved in effectiveness right out of the gate) which makes for another hideously useful combo on monster design if you put on a resistance.
That is a function of being an object, not a function of hardness. That is why it is in a separate section, not in the Hardness entry.
Hardness: Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage. When an object is damaged, subtract its hardness from the damage. Only damage in excess of its hardness is deducted from the object's hit points (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points, Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points, and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points).
Energy Attacks: Energy attacks deal half damage to most objects. Divide the damage by 2 before applying the object's hardness. Some energy types might be particularly effective against certain objects, subject to GM discretion. For example, fire might do full damage against parchment, cloth, and other objects that burn easily. Sonic might do full damage against glass and crystal objects.
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An adamantine weapon will bypass hardness. Adamantine weapon blanch will not though.Keep in mind, hardness is 'better' then DR because hardly anything bypasses it.
You can have both if you want, its your monster.
For a homebrew monster (evil animate weapons possessed by undead spirits) I gave them DR /and/ hardness. But that's because I'm an evil jerk.
What doesn't get through hardness? Smite. Barbarian rage powers that increase the DR/bypass on abilities (even if they get to +5, this means they bypass material requirements but don't take on those requirements).
Also spells are less effective against hardness (energy spells get halved in effectiveness right out of the gate) which makes for another hideously useful combo on monster design if you put on a resistance.
An adamantine weapon will bypass hardness up to hardness 20. They don't by default bypass all hardness.
Alright, thank you all for your answers! You're all very helpful! In the end, he's going with creating a construct. He's mainly using it as a flanking buddy and grapple/pinning buddy for sneak attack, as he's a Slayer.