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You also have to consider the possibility of negative voting. I'm not suggesting anyone has done this and it sure is against the spirit of the competition, but if a sizable group of friends agreed to vote up the WORST of the two items every time one of their own items was not in the pairing, they might have a much larger impact than only voting up their own. They could push the better items down and push up the items that have less chance at making it through the judges at every pairing. This is really cutthroat, but I've known some gamers (mostly CCG players) who will do anything not strictly prohibited by the rules, or regulated by a judging staff, in order to win a competition.
I just think group voting is something that the Paizo staff should consider looking into, and possibly another reason to avoid such a deep cull. The other being the lack of enthusiasm for voting and the competition in general. Group voting will have more impact also if so many culled voters stop voting knowing they will not see their own items again.
OK strange rod, you've grown on me.
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You also have to consider the possibility of negative voting. I'm not suggesting anyone has done this and it sure is against the spirit of the competition, but if a sizable group of friends agreed to vote up the WORST of the two items every time one of their own items was not in the pairing, they might have a much larger impact than only voting up their own. They could push the better items down and push up the items that have less chance at making it through the judges at every pairing. This is really cutthroat, but I've known some gamers (mostly CCG players) who will do anything not strictly prohibited by the rules, or regulated by a judging staff, in order to win a competition.
I just think group voting is something that the Paizo staff should consider looking into, and possibly another reason to avoid such a deep cull. The other being the lack of enthusiasm for voting and the competition in general. Group voting will have more impact also if so many culled voters stop voting knowing they will not see their own items again.
We would need better statistics to work with to gauge overall effects. Based on the overall quality of what's remaining, I don't see a negative up-vote effect. The problem with getting a group like that together is that they would have to make up a significant portion of the votes in order to have a real effect on this system even with the late-heavy cull.
You would have to have over a hundred people voting at Marathon or Champion levels to really affect the results in a significant way based on my current perceptions.
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You also have to consider the possibility of negative voting. I'm not suggesting anyone has done this and it sure is against the spirit of the competition, but if a sizable group of friends agreed to vote up the WORST of the two items every time one of their own items was not in the pairing, they might have a much larger impact than only voting up their own. They could push the better items down and push up the items that have less chance at making it through the judges at every pairing. This is really cutthroat, but I've known some gamers (mostly CCG players) who will do anything not strictly prohibited by the rules, or regulated by a judging staff, in order to win a competition.
I just think group voting is something that the Paizo staff should consider looking into, and possibly another reason to avoid such a deep cull. The other being the lack of enthusiasm for voting and the competition in general. Group voting will have more impact also if so many culled voters stop voting knowing they will not see their own items again.
There are several reasons this will not work...
1) Has to involve a decent number of people.2) Everyone in the group must be at least dishonest or more likely ruthlessly self interested in order to go through with it.
3) If 2 is true then they will likely try to betray one another and/or manipulate the competition against their own peers likely partly canceling the effect.
4) If 2 is not 100% true the chances of such a group keeping it secret... yeah it's human nature to blab.
5) If you have a group of ruthless sociopaths willing to work together Superstar 2015 is kind of beneath them in terms of criminal schemes.
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OK strange rod, you've grown on me.
Stop quoting my ex wife!
Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9
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I *always* vote for my own item. Or would, if I'd seen it.
I don't have friends -- or at least none who entered or voted -- but they would not receive the same courtesy. Their items would have to compete on their own merits. (And perhaps that's why I don't have friends...)
Having said that, I've been in enough critique groups to know that having been part of someone else's creative process would increase my positive feelings about their items. But of course, any item that followed my critique advice would *obviously* be a superior item, and would deserve any vote I gave it.
I've considered negative voting -- especially voting down items which are the same type as my item -- but that would make me feel dirty. I'd rather maintain my right to righteous indignation than engage in mostly-ineffective perfidious voting.
Could a large campaign of negative voting influence the results of the cull? Maybe...but what I think it would really do is kind of flatten out the middle. My impression is that the cutoff for the cull is not a set number, but is also determined by looking for natural inflection points in the data curve. Unless half the electorate is engaging in persistent negative voting, I think all you're going to do is push that inflection point down -- resulting in a smaller cull. But even doing that would take, I think, a large percentage of the electorate to have any real effect, and I just can't see that happening.
You also have to consider the possibility of negative voting. I'm not suggesting anyone has done this and it sure is against the spirit of the competition, but if a sizable group of friends agreed to vote up the WORST of the two items every time one of their own items was not in the pairing, they might have a much larger impact than only voting up their own. They could push the better items down and push up the items that have less chance at making it through the judges at every pairing. This is really cutthroat, but I've known some gamers (mostly CCG players) who will do anything not strictly prohibited by the rules, or regulated by a judging staff, in order to win a competition.
I just think group voting is something that the Paizo staff should consider looking into, and possibly another reason to avoid such a deep cull. The other being the lack of enthusiasm for voting and the competition in general. Group voting will have more impact also if so many culled voters stop voting knowing they will not see their own items again.
There are several reasons this will not work...
1) Has to involve a decent number of people.
2) Everyone in the group must be at least dishonest or more likely ruthlessly self interested in order to go through with it.3) If 2 is true then they will likely try to betray one another and/or manipulate the competition against their own peers likely partly canceling the effect.
4) If 2 is not 100% true the chances of such a group keeping it secret... yeah it's human nature to blab.
5) If you have a group of ruthless sociopaths willing to work together Superstar 2015 is kind of beneath them in terms of criminal schemes.
Yea, was just a thought, but I'm probably just nervous about the top 100/64 w/e decisions.
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Got it ^
Apparently the matrix is really concerned with how I feel about this dart weapon.
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Finally saw my item post-cull. \o/
Got it ^
Congrats
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5) If you have a group of ruthless sociopaths willing to work together Superstar 2015 is kind of beneath them in terms of criminal schemes.
On the other hand, if you have a group of ruthless sociopaths willing to work together, for the sake of the rest of us it's kind of an ideal situation that they turn their powers to tweaking the outcome of Superstar 2015. I mean, you know, instead of some death ray or something.
Got it ^Congrats
Thanks
We would need better statistics to work with to gauge overall effects. Based on the overall quality of what's remaining, I don't see a negative up-vote effect. The problem with getting a group like that together is that they would have to make up a significant portion of the votes in order to have a real effect on this system even with the late-heavy cull.
You would have to have over a hundred people voting at Marathon or Champion levels to really affect the results in a significant way based on my current perceptions.
Your first point it right. We don't have the info to determine if there is a problem. Do you know the voter statistics? I don't. Only Paizo has that info, and even with the info it might be hard to determine trends within it. It may be inherently incomplete. It is likely that there are a number of voters who are not active on the RPGSS forums, but how many? There seems to be less than 100 who are active posters. Do you know for sure that you would need over a hundred people to effect voting? This seems unlikely. How many different voters vote in a single day? You don't know. Some people may enter and hardly vote at all.
Negative voting is a conspiracy theory with all the inherent problems therein, though on a much smaller scale and impact than most conspiracy theories (which makes it somewhat more likely to happen without a leak). I'm just throwing it out there hoping that Paizo looks into things as far as they can (thought they likely won't consider it a good use of their time). Conspiracy theories aside, is it mostly those who have not been culled who are still actively and enthusiastically voting? Has the number of voters actively voting decreased or increased since the cull? How many of the current voters are still in the competition and how many of them will make the top 100? And how many of those items will be good enough to be selected by the judges for the top 32? How different was this from the first two years of public voting? It is just something that should be considered and a deeper cull would exacerbate a problem if there is one.
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5) If you have a group of ruthless sociopaths willing to work together Superstar 2015 is kind of beneath them in terms of criminal schemes.On the other hand, if you have a group of ruthless sociopaths willing to work together, for the sake of the rest of us, it's kind of an ideal situation that they turn their powers to tweaking the outcome of Superstar 2015. I mean, you know, instead of some death ray or something.
>.>
<.<Actually, a death ray would be kind of cool...
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Actually, a death ray would be kind of cool...
Shhhh... all in due time... all in due time...
Step One: Advance to the Top 32 of RPGSS 2015
Step Two: ???
Step Three: DEATHRAY!
Aren't death rays usually meant to be fired while shouting "I'll show them, I'll show them all!"? It may be more effective if you don't make Top 32.
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RPG Superstar 2015
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka mamaursula
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Is it okay to talk about stuff and reveal authorship after voting closes, or do we have to wait until the results are revealed?NO NO NO DON'T DO THAT! You have to wait until the Top 32 is revealed on the 20th, you could disqualify yourself. (Sorry, didn't mean to scream.)Yes you did. Just admit it and you will feel better. :)
I did it to make sure Cleanthes saw the reply and didn't disqualify themselves, so it didn't make me feel "better," but it did make me feel helpful with some chance of success.
Aren't death rays usually meant to be fired while shouting "I'll show them, I'll show them all!"? It may be more effective if you don't make Top 32.
You make an excellent point. However, I'd really rather have the win and a death ray, if at all possible.
I did it to make sure Cleanthes saw the reply and didn't disqualify themselves, so it didn't make me feel "better," but it did make me feel helpful with some chance of success.Is it okay to talk about stuff and reveal authorship after voting closes, or do we have to wait until the results are revealed?NO NO NO DON'T DO THAT! You have to wait until the Top 32 is revealed on the 20th, you could disqualify yourself. (Sorry, didn't mean to scream.)Yes you did. Just admit it and you will feel better. :)
Message received! Normal volume levels now appropriate :-)
I just up voted this years 50 shades of gray item
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RPG Superstar 2015
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka mamaursula
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AGGG! And again! Two in a row!
Algorithm, why do you hate me? Have I not shown great enough respect?!?
I had this happen with two items I really felt weren't very good, but I bit the bullet and deemed one to be "better." They showed back up flip-flopped, so I voted for the other item to null them out.
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RPG Superstar 2015
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka mamaursula
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My only concern is all the talk about "pit crews".
If I know the name of all my friends items, and we are rolling 10 deep, that's a circle of 10 people each voting for our friends items over and over when they pop up.
My "pit crew" has 5 people in it, 6 counting me. 5 people that I have been working with and designing with for a long time. If I felt that their items weren't worthy of upvoting, I wouldn't vote for them. But I would have made sure that they put their very best item forward. I have had situations where I did have to down vote my friends' items and I've done it. I sincerely doubt that the minor upticks really make any significant difference in the final listing, because if it did Anthony Adams would not have been culled, because he is a member of my pit crew and I still feel his item did not deserve to be culled, but there it is.
Is it me or has the snark on this thread drop drastically after the cut
Is it me or has the snark on this thread drop drastically after the cut
You're right. I think the depth of the cut was sobering.
There's a lot less need for snark now.
My only concern is all the talk about "pit crews".
If I know the name of all my friends items, and we are rolling 10 deep, that's a circle of 10 people each voting for our friends items over and over when they pop up.
Also - you have 10 friends? Like, real ones and stuff? Are you, like, a celebrity or something?
:)
NOTE: It has been pointed out to me that the above joke could have been misunderstood. It was meant as a self-deprecating jab at my own (nigh-hermetic) introversion, nothing more. I do apologize if anyone took it otherwise due to poor phrasing on my part.
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NOTE: It has been pointed out to me that the above joke could have been misunderstood. It was meant as a self-deprecating jab at my own (nigh-hermetic) introversion, nothing more. I do apologize if anyone took it otherwise due to poor phrasing on my part.My only concern is all the talk about "pit crews".
If I know the name of all my friends items, and we are rolling 10 deep, that's a circle of 10 people each voting for our friends items over and over when they pop up.
Also - you have 10 friends? Like, real ones and stuff? Are you, like, a celebrity or something?
:)
Good, because my eleven friends who are very real and I were very offended.
Good, because my eleven friends who are very real and I were very offended.
Are you a cabal of sociopaths working together? Do you all have a death ray?
*eyes dart nervously*
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I have had situations where I did have to down vote my friends' items and I've done it.
Voting for your own item over mine is a "situation!"
:p
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I have to point out the obvious fact that we'd stop having these problems if you people would just give up your sense of humor.
Carry on.
I have to point out the obvious fact that we'd stop having these problems if you people would just give up your sense of humor.
Carry on.
Do you really believe that I could achieve Champion voter status without a sense of humour?
I'm just not that strong...
My two favorite items. Paired against each other.
...
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NOTE: It has been pointed out to me that the above joke could have been misunderstood. It was meant as a self-deprecating jab at my own (nigh-hermetic) introversion, nothing more. I do apologize if anyone took it otherwise due to poor phrasing on my part.My only concern is all the talk about "pit crews".
If I know the name of all my friends items, and we are rolling 10 deep, that's a circle of 10 people each voting for our friends items over and over when they pop up.
Also - you have 10 friends? Like, real ones and stuff? Are you, like, a celebrity or something?
:)
Good, because my elven friends who are very real and I were very offended.
I keep seeing this one item and finding it kind of meh. But it keeps getting paired against items I find much more problematic. So I just upvoted it twice in a row!
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ZZotherrequirements...
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RPG Superstar 2015
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka mamaursula
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Good, because my eleven friends who are very real and I were very offended.NOTE: It has been pointed out to me that the above joke could have been misunderstood. It was meant as a self-deprecating jab at my own (nigh-hermetic) introversion, nothing more. I do apologize if anyone took it otherwise due to poor phrasing on my part.My only concern is all the talk about "pit crews".
If I know the name of all my friends items, and we are rolling 10 deep, that's a circle of 10 people each voting for our friends items over and over when they pop up.
Also - you have 10 friends? Like, real ones and stuff? Are you, like, a celebrity or something?
:)
He's kind of a big deal around here.
I have no friends. Look at my face. Who could stand to be around that for any length of time?
Besides, I say mean things about people's items in threads like this.
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If this year's contest teaches us nothing else, it's that a lot of fighters and paladins just need to nut up and tell their friends to buy their own g~!!%#n shields.
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That is a interesting item and I like it but, by the time I can afford it me or my mage friend will have Greater Teleport and it will be redundant for me.
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RPG Superstar 2015
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka mamaursula
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I have no friends. Look at my face. Who could stand to be around that for any length of time?
Besides, I say mean things about people's items in threads like this.
A big paper bag would fix that right up. And a pork chop tied around your neck.
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My biggest problem with the cull is that it's made my item seem a lot less awesome in comparison to all the crazy cool stuff I'm seeing now. Fortunately, my goal was to enter something that "wasn't embarrassing" and it made it past the cull so I feel like I totally fulfilled that. Woohoo! (Dream big!)
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Good, because my eleven friends who are very real and I were very offended.
He's kind of a big deal around here.
With eleven friends, he's a regular Nigel Tufnel of social interaction.
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My biggest problem with the cull is that it's made my item seem a lot less awesome in comparison to all the crazy cool stuff I'm seeing now. Fortunately, my goal was to enter something that "wasn't embarrassing" and it made it past the cull so I feel like I totally fulfilled that. Woohoo! (Dream big!)
Uh, this is not to imply that things that didn't make the cull are things the designers should be embarrassed by! Oh gosh! Abort! Abort!
Ahhh! The most disturbing item doesn't have a dark sounding description, but in how it is used.
YES. It kinda caught me unawares the first time I ran across it. :) "la de da..wait what? Then WHAT? That got dark fast!"
I think you get a free death ray when you become a lich.
So maybe that's what the cabal of sociopaths is really working toward.