I'm aware melee weapons receive the bonus to hit from a flank, but wording seems to conclude that as long as you are flanking an enemy your sneak attack applies.
A player mentioned this tonight in a game, and I quickly told him he was wrong with how he explained how to accomplish it. I pondered about the wording and said if the character had improved unarmed strike or something to that effect, then the character would provide a flank under those circumstances due to threatening that enemies space. Issue is, do you need the bonus to apply to the attack to be flanking with your attack to get the sneak attack damage?
I then looked up the exact wording of things, and it seems that snap shot could provide a flank too, since you just need to threaten your opponent (but the bonus of course only applies to melee attacks), because the requirement to provide a flank is just based on threatened squares.
Thoughts?
Here yah go
Thread Number 1
Thread Number 2
This still seems a bit unresolved, because you have the state of being flanked as something that exists. Things like the feat "outflanked" use wording to say that you can be in such a state. These answers seem to be on the basis of receiving a flanking bonus rather than flanking.
Sneak attack requires that you have the state/condition of flanking to be personally happening on an enemy, provided you are personally involved in creating it, and not so much gaining a flank bonus.
Read the second thread much more carefully. There's a lot of relevant stuff in there, but the most important part is:
"FAQ - Gang Up: Does this feat (page 161) allow you to flank a foe with ranged weapons?: "The Gang Up feat allows you to count as flanking so long as two of your allies are threatening your opponent. The feat makes no mention of ranged attacks being included, and since flanking specifically refers to melee attacks, ranged attacks do not benefit from this feat. (JMB, 8/13/10)" "
Flanking specifically refers to melee attacks being the pertinent section. You simply can't get sneak attack from flank with a bow because you are only flanking when making a melee attack.
It's so weird because the actual rules imply that you just need to be threatening to "flank" and to gain the bonus, you must be flanking and swing the sword. It is an FAQ, so I suppose the clarity would be that you can't sneak attack, but it would be better if the FAQ was written better in my opinion.
As far as providing a flank for others seems to be a-okay (snap shot), because you are an ally threatening an enemy.
You can't flank with a ranged attack. Period.
A feat can allow you to grant flank on a friend (if he attacks with a melee weapon that is), but won't grant it to you : Snap shot.
Sniper archetype?
Doesn't help. All it does is extend the range at which you are allowed to sneak attack, which is normally 30ft. It doesn't however change the fact that flanking applies to melee attacks only.
If you have the Snap Shot line of feats it will allow you to provide a flanking bonus to an ally, but you cannot benefit from flanking yourself.
There is no ranged flanking.
The distinction which I want to make clear for others to appreciate is that it seems imply there is flanking, and a flanking bonus by how the original rules are written, but I can understand why it would brr exclusive to melee attacks. You threatening with another to meet the requirements means your flanking, right? If so, it's at that point you may melee to take advantage of the bonus. Instead of the bonus, you sneak attack because they're flanked. Understand?
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Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target.
You can only apply sneak attack damage when the target is denied a Dex bonus to AC, or when you flank your target. To be clear, you do not apply sneak attack when your target is flanked. You only apply SA damage when you flank your target. You never flank a target when using a ranged attack.
You can provide flanking with a ranged weapon when you threaten.
So any thing that let´s you threaten with a ranged weapon is good there.
Zen Archers and some others can do that, also snap shot gets you there.
Same is true for a whip actually, but you need whip mastery.
To really get a flanking bonus with a ranged weapon you (and others) need a teamwork feat though. Can´t find it at the moment though. Coordinated shot is one, enfilading fire another one.
To really get a flanking bonus with a ranged weapon you (and others) need a teamwork feat though. Can´t find it at the moment though. Coordinated shot is one, enfilading fire another one.
While you do get a bonus to hit with these feats, they're actually quite careful not to mention 'flanking' at all.
The distinction which I want to make clear for others to appreciate is that it seems imply there is flanking, and a flanking bonus by how the original rules are written, but I can understand why it would brr exclusive to melee attacks. You threatening with another to meet the requirements means your flanking, right? If so, it's at that point you may melee to take advantage of the bonus. Instead of the bonus, you sneak attack because they're flanked. Understand?
Not really. Your first statement I understand but the second doesn't make sense.
If you threaten an opponent you can provide a flanking bonus to them for melee attacks (provided they also provide flanking). Thus, flanking is normally a reciprocal status.
However, ranged weapons don't normally threaten. With the exception of snapshot and a zen-archer monk's abilities (and perhaps another case or two I'm missing).
However, flanking still goes beyond this and states that you must use a melee attack to benefit from flanking.
Now, if your second question was basically "can you drop your bow pull out a dagger and stab them with it to benefit from flanking?"...well of course. That's how normal flanking works. Though you couldn't do it as an AoO because you only threaten with the weapon you are wielding, however this is a tangent to the discussion.
Here we go.
To flank, all you need to do is threaten an enemy with an ally in a straight line. Regardless of how you accomplish your threatening situation, if you meet those requirements, you did the thing.
So, sneak attack states that you need to be flanking in order to sneak attack. It doesn't state anything about melee attacks in this situation.
Flanking says in order to get your flanking bonus, you must use a melee attack and be flanking... interesting.
So, if I happen to be flanking an enemy, why don't I gain the benefits of sneak attack? Forget the flanking bonus, because this isn't about that.
This is the logic, and I hope if anyone was unclear, that it's clear now.
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Here we go.
To flank, all you need to do is threaten an enemy with an ally in a straight line. Regardless of how you accomplish your threatening situation, if you meet those requirements, you did the thing.
So, sneak attack states that you need to be flanking in order to sneak attack. It doesn't state anything about melee attacks in this situation.
Flanking says in order to get your flanking bonus, you must use a melee attack and be flanking... interesting.
So, if I happen to be flanking an enemy, why don't I gain the benefits of sneak attack? Forget the flanking bonus, because this isn't about that.
This is the logic, and I hope if anyone was unclear, that it's clear now.
Flanking
When making a attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.When in doubt about whether two characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two attackers' centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent's space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.
Exception: If a flanker takes up more than 1 square, it gets the flanking bonus if any square it occupies counts for flanking.
Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus.
Creatures with a reach of 0 feet can't flank an opponent.
The flanking rules make it clear that you only flank an opponent with a melee attack. In order to sneak attack you must flank your target.
RAW, you cannot gain a sneak attack on a ranged attack from flanking.
Imbicatus has the right of it. The rules clearly state you only benefit from flanking (which includes being able to make a sneak attack) when wielding a melee weapon.
So, while threatening allows you to provide flanking (in the case of Snapshot) it doesn't allow you to benefit from flanking. That still requires the use of a melee weapon.
There are specialty healing salves you can use for when the flaking feels like its getting that bad. Maybe see a dermatologist?
I don't think that flaking provides sneak attack damage. Its more of a avoidance bonus to AC, and it stacks with anything, like Dodge bonuses.
Unless you are attacking with specific types of cereal, then there is a bonus, albeit a small one, from flaking.
If you want to use a ranged sneak attack, you either need total concealment (Invisibility or smoke/fog and the ability to see through it) or for the target to be flat-footed. Period. You cannot flank at range.
Just wanted to say, this isn't entirely true. You can get sneak attack damage on ranged attacks if the opponent is denied their Dex bonus, for example from the Pinned and Cowering conditions.
This is what I've ended up with.
In the hypothetical, the enemy is flanked, and you are part of this effort. Sneak attack requires YOU to be flanking, but isn't conditional of the enemy being flanked. You are responsible for the enemy being flanked, but you're not flanking until you make a melee attack, and the you flanking only applies when you make your swings.
It's super goofy, but that's the game we play.
The flanking rules make it clear that you only flank an opponent with a melee attack. In order to sneak attack you must flank your target.
RAW, you cannot gain a sneak attack on a ranged attack from flanking.
Actually they're not clear. It doesn't say you don't flank when you're using a ranged attack, it only says you get a bonus for using a melee attack. The only thing that really clarifies it is the Gang-Up FAQ which implies that only melee flanks.
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Flanked or Flanking is not a condition. It's a bonus that applies to a character's melee attacks under a very specific conditions. The terms Flank and Flanking bonus are interchangeable. Since you never gain a flanking bonus with a ranged attack, you never flank with a ranged attack, although if you threaten the target with snap shot, you can provide that flanking bonus to another character.
It would be easier to understand, and allow ranged sneak attacks if Flanked was a condition, but it's not.