Soulshifter Staff

[Jacob Kellogg]

mplindustries wrote:

The cost is also ridiculously high.

Now, this is interesting, considering the multiple critiques I got (including from Paizo) that the price was too low.

So I guess I'll go ahead and re-check my math (I was a bit rushed when I first did it) to see where the formula would put the price for just the spells.

Magic Item Creation wrote:

The materials cost is subsumed in the cost of creation: 400 gp × the level of the highest-level spell × the level of the caster, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (300 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster), plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities (200 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster).

Okay, so for the highest-level spell (a tie between SL and BoL at 5th level) the price is 400gp x Spell Level x CL:

400 x 5 x 13 = 26,000gp

The next spell is the same formula, but with a 300gp base instead of 400gp:

300 x 5 x 13 = 19,500gp

All remaining spells (in this case, VT) use the formula with a 200gp base:

200 x 3 x 13 = 7,800gp

But wait, there's more!

Magic Item Creation wrote:

If desired, a spell can be placed into the staff at less than the normal cost, but then activating that particular spell drains additional charges from the staff. Divide the cost of the spell by the number of charges it consumes to determine its final price.

So for each spell price, we divide by the number of charges used.

SL = 26,000gp / 2 = 13,000gp
BOL = 19,500gp / 2 = 9,750gp

Now, let's total it up:
13,000 + 9,750 + 7,800 = 30,550gp.

That's the cost, so the price would be double that:

30,550 x 2 = 61,100 gp

So unless I missed something, the market price of a staff with just the spells I used is just a hair over 60k, or about two-thirds of the price of my staff. To put it another way, I took a spell-only staff and increased the price by about 50% to get my final price.

Overpriced? Underpriced? Apparently there's no consensus, but at least now I know I did my original math right! ;)

[mplindustries]

Jacob Kellogg wrote:

Overpriced? Underpriced? Apparently there's no consensus, but now I know I did my original math right! ;)

Like I said, I thought your price was correct, I just didn't think the end result was really worth the correct cost.

To me, there's two parts: 1) did I follow the rules for the price? 2) Is that price worth what it does? Lots of terrible items follow #1 without being close on #2 (your item isn't terrible, just talking about items in general).

Slay the Living is not an especially powerful spell, for example. It's 42+CL, but instead of save for half, it's save for "tiny fraction." And even still, most warrior types can outdamage that pretty easily by the time 90k gp is getting thrown around, so, I'm not impressed by spending 1/5 of my staff for it, or 1/2 my staff to heal for 23.5+CL and deal 42+CL damage. It's just, not enough for the cost, in my mind. Unmetamagicked spells deal junky single target damage in general--that's just a legacy issue you can't do much about. So, an expensive magic item that just lets you move HP around is not going to be worth it in my mind.

[Joel Flank]

Jacob Kellogg wrote:

So unless I missed something, the market price of a staff with just the spells I used is just a hair over 60k, or about two-thirds of the price of my staff. To put it another way, I took a spell-only staff and increased the price by about 50% to get my final price.

Overpriced? Underpriced? Apparently there's no consensus, but...

Jacob, I think you did the math right, but I thought the staff was overpriced because of the additional effect wasn't worth a 50% increase. Ignoring vampiric touch for a moment, the bonus effect is really a very limited version of the rod of quicken, which is priced at 37.75K. Since your staff can do this at most twice per day based on the charges, it's automatically worth no more than 2/3, which is 25K and change. I'd further reduce that amount since it a) can't do that trick every day, and b) has none of the flexibility of the rod, since each use case allows only one specific quickened spell, I'd say maybe 10K for the effect.

And since the splitting the vampiric touch effect isn't all that useful or powerful, add maybe 1K for that (though I still think you can remove VT entirely from the staff and save a bit right there).

That would get around 70-71K, which is still pretty pricey, but a bit more realistic if someone wanted this staff.

[Lucus Palosaari]

Congratulations for having made it to the Top 32, sorry you didn't move on.

Sorry I'm late to the party, I hadn't realized how big a task commenting on everyone else's items was going to be in the Official Critique Thread!

Seeing as how many other people have commented above me, and you've moved well on from this point... I'm going to keep my comments brief. To understand my rating system, see my larger post on my critique thread.

As an overall comment, each and every one of you that made it to the Top 32 must have had a "Publishable" item in my opinion because you appealed to not only the voters but also the judges -- so if I say "Rewrite" it's more to be "rewriteable to be SUPERSTAR!"

Publishable -- I like the idea of the staff, but I'd almost question the exact mechanics and if it would work to line up slaying someone to resurrect them, and vice versa, but I'd actually be willing to playtest it to find out!

[Jacob Kellogg]

Lucus Palosaari wrote:

I'd almost question ... if it would work to line up slaying someone to resurrect them, and vice versa

I don't understand the question.

[Curaigh]

I think LP means casting the immediate breath of life on the target of the slay living. Which reminds me of that threat mothers often throw around. "I brought you into this world and by god I can take you back out!"

Congratulations Jacob and welcome back!

Soulshifter was the problem for me, as others have probably already pointed out about souls and hp not being the same thing? I question the immediate function of those spells breaking the item, but hopefully the charges means it can't happen very often. Otherwise a very good reason why staves are 'hard mode' and how to get through that hurdle.

Well done and good luck! :)

Jacob Kellogg wrote:

Lady Firedove wrote:

The use being limited to certain domain clerics is unfortunate

People keep saying this; is there no love for Mystic Theurges? ;)

My item suffered a similar lack of theurgic love. :)

[Lucus Palosaari]

Jacob Kellogg wrote:

Lucus Palosaari wrote:

I'd almost question ... if it would work to line up slaying someone to resurrect them, and vice versa

I don't understand the question.

I am most used to thinking of using breath of life to "save" someone from dying, though re-reading the spell, it looks like I could just heal them at any point.

I would wonder if I saw a companion go down, would I be better off attempting to use slay living to kill a creature and get to cast breath of life on them? The spell must be cast within 1 round of the creature's death -- so were I within 30 ft of the dying companion, I'd be better running over to cast breath of life to be sure I save them, and then use the free attempt to kill someone with the free slay living -- or am I misreading how this ability would work?

[Jacob Kellogg]

If your priority is to save a just-killed ally, then yeah, you're probably gonna walk over and BoL them, then decide whether or not to spend another 3 charges for an immediate SL. Although there's also the remote possibility of being 50 feet from your dead ally with an enemy in between, where you could close the gap to 30ft or less, then try to kill the enemy and reach your ally with the 30ft BoL.

If your priority is to take down an enemy, then you'll likely go over and cast SL, then afterwards (if you kill them) you can decide whether healing a nearby ally for 5d8+X without spending a turn is worth another 3 charges.

Also, I'll add you to the long list of people who didn't realize that BoL could heal a still-living target. ;) Funny how people can start to think of their habits as being the rules, isn't it?