Bikendi Otongu role card in Island of Empty Eyes?


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Did a forum search for this guy, and nothing was returned.

I opened my Island of Empty eyes pack to find the two awesome promo cards, but also a Bikendi Otongu undead wizard role card with token/story on the front. Is this just a teaser card, a mistake in packing, or was there supposed to be a whole character in the pack?


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Had the same experience. I also don't read ahead, but I assumed from just glancing at it that it's a supplemental role for one of the scenarios. That's what the few rules I peeked at looked like.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

It should go with one of the scenarios, Breaking the Dreamstone I believe. And that one card should be all you need.


Cool. Thanks a bunch.

Sovereign Court

It's used in the third scenarios

Explanation Spoiler:
One player can swap out their role card for this one for the scenario. Skills stay the same, but your hand size, proficiencies, and powers all swap out. It's definitely not something I'd recommend for someone like Damiel who relies on at least one of his powers (he wouldn't get to recharge his potions). However, if you die then you just replace it with your role card and basically reset your deck. If you win the scenario, if someone is alive with the role card, they get to draw one of each non-Loot boon, so it's a great bonus.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

My CD Kyra got possessed by Bikendi. It was very interesting going from a hand size of 5 to 8, but that was kind of muted by the fact I couldn't use her regular powers. It did allow me to be good support for the rest of the team since I always had several blessings in my hand and was able to cure spell them back into my deck when necessary.

Sovereign Court

Certain characters definitely would be problematic with it. Damiel banishes his potions (though I guess you discard for the new power, but it still isn't as good or a recharge), Kyra can't heal, and worst of all Oloch can't reveal!


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I'm still waiting for the AP to arrive, but reading this got me excited! I had to get this spoiled :)


Andrew L Klein wrote:
However, if you die then you just replace it with your role card and basically reset your deck.

This is also how I understood the card, but is it true? From the rulebook:

Dying wrote:
If, for any reason, you are ever required to remove one or more cards from your deck and you don’t have enough cards, your character dies. Bury your deck, hand, and discard pile. You cannot take turns, play cards, move, or do anything else for the rest of this scenario. Certain powerful cards allow you to return from death; if this doesn’t happen before the end of the scenario, your death is permanent.
Bikendi Otongu role card wrote:
If your character dies, shuffle your discard pile into your deck and replace this role card with your own.

Nowhere does the Bikendi Otongu role card tells you you are "returned from death". Compare with Raise Dead:

deck 5 Raise Dead wrote:
Discard this card and choose a dead character. His player shuffles 10 of his buried cards at random into his character deck and draws a new hand. The character is no longer dead.

The resurrection in Raise Dead is quite explicitly written. Whereas the ghost of Bikendi Otongu seems to just fool around with your deck, without removing death.

I don't know if this power is just a way for the rules to tell you to put back the role card in the box at the end of the scenario, or if there is more to it.

Adventure Card Game Designer

Yeah, that's a reasonable question. We'll take a look at the wording.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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We've determined that Bikendi doesn't actually bring you back from death—he prevents you from dying. If we were to print him today, we would make him look like this:

At the end of the scenario, or when you would die, shuffle your discard pile into your deck and replace this role card with your own.

Similarly, the ship Deathknell would change from "If your character would die, draw a number of cards from your discard pile equal to your hand size and bury all your other cards" to "When you would die, instead draw a number of cards from your discard pile equal to your hand size and bury all your other cards."

However, both of these changes are more cosmetic than functional, so we're not going to issue a formal resolution for either. Bikendi is already going in the S&S errata deck, so he will get that new text there, but we're not going to add Deathknell to the errata deck just for this issue.


rulebook wrote:
If, for any reason, you are ever required to remove 1 or more cards from your deck and you don’t have enough cards, your character dies.
new wording for Bikendi Otongu wrote:
At the end of the scenario, or when you would die, shuffle your discard pile into your deck and replace this role card with your own.

I don't think I see how the new wording prevents me from dying. I mean, OK, I now have a deck but the rulebook quite explicitly told me I'm dead, so I'm not sure I care.

The new wording for Deathknell, using the word "instead", is much clearer in my opinion.

I know I would have posted the same question ("Is Bikendi preventing death or is this power just a way to return him to the box?") with the new wording.


new wording for Bikendi Otongu wrote:
At the end of the scenario, or when you would die, shuffle your discard pile into your deck and replace this role card with your own.

If I were reading the new wording, I'd see "when you would die" which implies that I haven't died yet as I'm about to draw a card from my deck and there isn't one. But "when you would die" interrupts that and I replace the role card and shuffle my discard pile into my deck. Once that has finished, I'm now able to draw cards and I'm not dead.

Seems clear enough to me.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

What jduteau said. "When you would...instead..." signifies that the thing that would have happened doesn't happen. See here for more insight. And here as well.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
What jduteau said. "When you would...instead..." signifies that the thing that would have happened doesn't happen. See here for more insight. And here as well.

OK, thanks for the links!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Right—"would" means "that thing did not happen." We *usually* pair it with "instead" to help make that clear, except in places where "instead" is obviously redundant or unclear, and it would be unclear on Bikendi:

"At the end of the scenario, or when you would die, instead shuffle your discard pile into your deck and replace this role card with your own."

While "instead" couples fine with "when you would die," it really doesn't work with "At the end of the scenario," so we had to omit it.

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