Goblinworks Blog: Alpha 15 Release Notes


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CEO, Goblinworks

Release Notes are up!

Goblin Squad Member

Do we have any idea what the hard cap for players in a hex is?

Goblin Squad Member

IMHO, you need to put in Eve's time dilation solution for many players in a hex, otherwise to win in pvp, you simply bring the max players allowed in a hex and win by default.

CEO, Goblinworks

100

Goblin Squad Member

At this stage of "the game" 100/hex seems pretty darn reasonable.

Goblin Squad Member

If some group ties up 100 accounts locking down a hex that means they aren't doing things in other places.

Goblin Squad Member

Quote:
There are now quest givers in all settlements and Thornkeep...

Are the quest-givers supposed to be in Player Settlements as well?

[Edit] And I just found the Spherewalker quest-giver in Phaeros by the War Wizard trainer. They just don't show up on the mini-map.

[Edit] The quest-giver dialogs need scrollbar handles.

Goblin Squad Member

Spherewalker - Favors for Lady Luck - Kill 10 ogre shamans.
Priest of Gozreh - Insidious Hero Gods - Kill 15 goblin shamans.
Priest of Gorum - Glorious Battle - Kill 5 boss knights.
Riftwarden - Seal the Rift - Kill 15 hell houds.
Priest of Abadar - Rolling Bones - Kill 25 skeletons.
Stag Bannerman - Dire Cull - Kill 10 dire wolves.

If anyone sees other quest-givers, please let us know.

Goblin Squad Member

TL;DR: Maybe no time dilution but something else? Some quests have scrollbars.

Illililili wrote:
IMHO, you need to put in Eve's time dilation solution for many players in a hex, otherwise to win in pvp, you simply bring the max players allowed in a hex and win by default.

While time dilation might alleviate some of the load and latency issues, I for one feel like it would not be a very good fit for a game like PFO (or other, rather fast-paced avatar-based games).

In larger battles, the players are meant to be grouped into bigger units that would aid in reducing latency. These groups of course don't remove the possibility of just stacking countless characters into one place and thus blocking the server. Handling high character density is a rather annoying problem :)

The current hexes are a rather large spaces. To enable more than #hardcap users to exist in this area, the hex could be split into smaller sections between several server nodes. This could be a static split or perhaps something more dynamic; For example, splitting the hex into a voronoi diagram based on population clusters. Still, these ramblings wont' remove the the problem above. It would be nice if the largest gatherings of players (I'll assume these are big battles) would be set up in a way that "forces" formations - across several hexes. It wouldn't be very helpful is 500 players just gather to one place and suddenly *pop* into formations.

There could be a mechanic to set a hex into a battle state that would enable only formations to enter. This would of course require all kinds of special considerations: How would the defenders assemble? What about scouts? What happens to 3rd parties?

I am kinda glad these are not truly my problems to solve :D

Nihimon wrote:
[Edit] The quest-giver dialogs need scrollbar handles.

The ones I encountered in Thornkeep had proper scrollbars. :\

Goblin Squad Member

plopmania wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
[Edit] The quest-giver dialogs need scrollbar handles.
The ones I encountered in Thornkeep had proper scrollbars. :\

Hrm.

The ones in Phaeros would scroll about half a line if I clicked where the scrollbar would be, but that was all.

[Edit] Harad Navar reports that one of the quest dialogs that did have a proper scrollbar no longer had it when he went back to it after looking at some of the other quest dialogs.

CEO, Goblinworks

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The very first one I tested didn't have a scrollbar and I bug reported it last night at 1am. :)

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

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Quote:

Loot

Document Items now drop from creatures as loot. These are currently set up to begin as Unresearched texts. Right clicking the item transforms it into a specific fragment of text that you can read via the tooltip description to learn about Pathfinder Online's specific lore and information about other relevant details about Golarion in general. This is a prototype version of the system; as we get access to new tech, researching the text will require particular Knowledge skills and the format will likely change to be more visually appealing.

If you don't want to create a library of lore, the researched texts can be used as scrap paper stock for the Tier 2 Recycled Paper Sawyer refining recipe.

Drool

We will be able to make our documents in the future?

We will have a library in our homes?

How much for an unseen servant keeping our home in order? (I want one in real life)


Ryan, why not set the limit at something we can readily test in Alpha, like 20 or 30? Something tells me that 100 people in a hex in Alpha at this point is never going to happen- so it will never be tested on the live servers before EE.

Separately, could we get "ear" drops off of monsters as a token certifying we killed the monster? They would need to be zero weight and have no other value other than being presentable as proof that a player killed so many of a thing. This is a la Diablo 1. It would facilitate player-created quests.

Thanks for the list of tips to try for client-side trouble shooting. I'll have to try some of those as I am one of the folks getting hit with the constant desyncs.

Lastly, where is the Mac client download?

Goblin Squad Member

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Found a Smallholding in Hex -11.00, at the crossroads

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

I am Furlan, I suffer from the stone malady, that thing is made of wood, I want a stone one.

[cry in a corner]

Reinstalling all my stuff in a new PC with windows 8 has strange effects on my mind. Still better than killing a few random programmers.

CEO, Goblinworks

We need an EE limit, not an Alpha Limit. I cannot go into Early Enrollment with a server that cannot handle those loads.

We'll get 100 accounts logged into a hex. We will be able to do it ourselves shortly and I think we'll have no problem getting 100 people for a stress test. Over 10,000 people currently have Alpha access.


Ryan Dancey wrote:

We need an EE limit, not an Alpha Limit. I cannot go into Early Enrollment with a server that cannot handle those loads.

We'll get 100 accounts logged into a hex. We will be able to do it ourselves shortly and I think we'll have no problem getting 100 people for a stress test. Over 10,000 people currently have Alpha access.

I was just thinking yall might want to send an email out, and there it is in my email accounts. Hopefully 100 people in a hex is doable. I still have a pair of alts in Rotters, personally.

Goblin Squad Member

sspitfire1 wrote:
...Lastly, where is the Mac client download?

I signed into GW, followed the button for installer and after clicking the agreements and such, the option to download the mac installer or the widows installer came up. Alternate mirror sites as well.

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wrote:

Spherewalker - Favors for Lady Luck - Kill 10 ogre shamans.

Priest of Gozreh - Insidious Hero Gods - Kill 15 goblin shamans.
Priest of Gorum - Glorious Battle - Kill 5 boss knights.
Riftwarden - Seal the Rift - Kill 15 hell houds.
Priest of Abadar - Rolling Bones - Kill 25 skeletons.
Stag Bannerman - Dire Cull - Kill 10 dire wolves.

If anyone sees other quest-givers, please let us know.

Pure Legion Enforcer - God Botherers - Kill 15 powerful cultists.

Goblinworks Game Designer

@Illililili

I remember Mark talking early on about building something similar to EVE's time dilation into our protocols. So the concept is definitely in there, and they've probably architected to take advantage of it. But you have to crawl before you can walk, and you have to get servers that are optimized to handle hundreds of connections at all before you can get them to slow everyone down enough to juggle the messaging coming from all those connections ;) .

@sspitfire1

I've been pretty adamant about avoiding introducing quest items as long as we can, and Bob has grumbled and played along for now. Currently, we have the items set up so that every item in your inventory could have a practical use to another player, whereas quest items could fill up the economy with things that are only useful if you can find the right NPC to turn them into. And if they're useful for something else, like crafting, then Bob has to constantly worry about how many of them he's inserting into the world and how that might distort the economy.

I did grudgingly write quest items into the design space for inventory, but I'm hoping to not introduce them until we have a much more solid grasp on our economic inputs and outputs, and our UI for managing it in inventory and the market. And maybe not even then, if I have my way ;) .

@Diego Rossi

Currently, documents are a designer hack based upon realizing that, hey, we have item descriptions that wrap properly now, why not go ahead and make scraps of text? Like all situations where the designers figure out a way to use a system in a way that wasn't explicitly intended, we're constantly on the lookout for a programmer running up screaming at us about the horrible things we've done to the servers by putting in something that they never expected to have to handle.

So, player-written texts are probably a LONG way out if they're even possible or desirable, since that at the very least means a whole tech and filtering* overhead of letting players write text blobs that are saved in the database somewhere. (vs. what we're doing now and just cheating by making a bunch of crafting components with colorful names and descriptions.)

But it doesn't seem completely impossible on a long enough time frame if you can get enough people to prioritize it for crowdforging.

* for vulgarity and plagerism in particular

Goblin Squad Member

Wanted to add a thank you to the new Yew and Iron Splint cleric heavy armor. It looks...divine!


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Stephen Cheney wrote:

@sspitfire1

I've been pretty adamant about avoiding introducing quest items as long as we can, and Bob has grumbled and played along for now. Currently, we have the items set up so that every item in your inventory could have a practical use to another player, whereas quest items could fill up the economy with things that are only useful if you can find the right NPC to turn them into. And if they're useful for something else, like crafting, then Bob has to constantly worry about how many of them he's inserting into the world and how that might distort the economy.

I did grudgingly write quest items into the design space for inventory, but I'm hoping to not introduce them until we have a much more solid grasp on our economic inputs and outputs, and our UI for managing it in inventory and the market. And maybe not even then, if I have my way ;) .

Thanks Stephen. I wasn't thinking about quest items for NPC quests, but I can see how that would be an issue. I was thinking about quest items for PC quests, so the value would be directly to another player or organization. It would facilitate companies and settlements rewarding players for clearing a pesky escalation or some such. Ears or other minor tokens wouldn't be useful for anything other than cashing in to another player for the reward. It is basically a way to facilitate a specific kind of trade between players: killing things for gold.

Right now, if a group clears an escalation for Ozem's Vigil, OV has no way to verify they are rewarding the correct persons (they can verify the escalation was cleared by visiting the hex). Alternatively, OV might offer 1s for killing 100 Ripping Chains goblins, encouraging players to kill goblins in Ripping Chains escalations, and setting up an economic driver for the population actively managing those escalations. But that only works if there is a means for verifying the kills.

Plus I think it would add richness to the game, having that extra level of interaction available to players.

Goblin Squad Member

Stephen Cheney wrote:
I've been pretty adamant about avoiding introducing quest items as long as we can, and Bob has grumbled and played along for now.

Keep up the good fight!

Stephen Cheney wrote:
Like all situations where the designers figure out a way to use a system in a way that wasn't explicitly intended...

Emergent Design!


Nihimon wrote:
Stephen Cheney wrote:
I've been pretty adamant about avoiding introducing quest items as long as we can, and Bob has grumbled and played along for now.

Keep up the good fight!

Is this a vote against my Goblin ears, Nihimon? Do we need to revisit how horrible the moon looks? Hm? j/k

Goblin Squad Member

sspitfire1 wrote:
Alternatively, OV might offer 1s for killing 100 Ripping Chains goblins, encouraging players to kill goblins in Ripping Chains escalations, and setting up an economic driver for the population actively managing those escalations.

I wonder if a settlement/company might be able to offer Influence as payment for tasks completed. Not general quests like clearing escalations, but tasks like porting harvested/gathered material from outposts/basecamps back to settlements/smallholdings? That would be a more valuable commodity than coin or even crafted materials.

Goblin Squad Member

Locking out alts logging in simultaneously may be a little premature as ther does not seem any way for people with a single account to transfer items between alts anymore.

Goblin Squad Member

I just transferred between alts though I had to recruit a guildmate to help. Not possible for a single account though.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

sspitfire1 wrote:
Stephen Cheney wrote:

@sspitfire1

I've been pretty adamant about avoiding introducing quest items as long as we can, and Bob has grumbled and played along for now. Currently, we have the items set up so that every item in your inventory could have a practical use to another player, whereas quest items could fill up the economy with things that are only useful if you can find the right NPC to turn them into. And if they're useful for something else, like crafting, then Bob has to constantly worry about how many of them he's inserting into the world and how that might distort the economy.

I did grudgingly write quest items into the design space for inventory, but I'm hoping to not introduce them until we have a much more solid grasp on our economic inputs and outputs, and our UI for managing it in inventory and the market. And maybe not even then, if I have my way ;) .

Thanks Stephen. I wasn't thinking about quest items for NPC quests, but I can see how that would be an issue. I was thinking about quest items for PC quests, so the value would be directly to another player or organization. It would facilitate companies and settlements rewarding players for clearing a pesky escalation or some such. Ears or other minor tokens wouldn't be useful for anything other than cashing in to another player for the reward. It is basically a way to facilitate a specific kind of trade between players: killing things for gold.

Right now, if a group clears an escalation for Ozem's Vigil, OV has no way to verify they are rewarding the correct persons (they can verify the escalation was cleared by visiting the hex). Alternatively, OV might offer 1s for killing 100 Ripping Chains goblins, encouraging players to kill goblins in Ripping Chains escalations, and setting up an economic driver for the population actively managing those escalations. But that only works if there is a means for verifying the kills.

Plus I think it would add richness to the game, having that extra level of interaction...

For your idea to work the "ears" (or whatever as skeleton ears seem questionable) need to have a expiry date or the player driven quest "get me 100 of x ears" would be satisfied by the guy that has alredy stored those ears in the appropriate bank.

Goblin Squad Member

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sspitfire1 wrote:
Is this a vote against my Goblin ears, Nihimon?

It is a very enthusiastic vote against Quest Items with random drop rates where you turn in the Quest to an NPC. I would actually cast a vote for a system that empowers Player-generated Quests.

sspitfire1 wrote:
Do we need to revisit how horrible the moon looks? Hm? j/k

You'll die for that, Goat. (j/k... maybe)


@Diego: I know. I was figuring that level of complication could be saved for later, though.

@Nihimon: We've already established (repeatedly) that Bow+Spear > Wand+Staff. But if you need another reminder...

Goblin Squad Member

Maybe it's been addressed before, but I can't find any mention of it...

Is there or will there be a way to repair items, mundane and magical? From what I can tell, I could spend six months researching and collecting materials, refining them, saving up enough of everything I need to create that single awesome item I've been salivating over in my mind, then come up against that one opponent I can't quite get past and the item is now gone because I died 20 times before I realized it. Not to mention, with no stores of any kind and players starting out in an NPC settlement, there is no buying/selling of anything going on and there is no way to repair anything you've fought tooth and nail to acquire. And as a new player, some people die a lot and then they're without armor or weapons or whatever and there's not a thing they can do about it.

Goblin Squad Member

Quote:
For your idea to work the "ears" (or whatever as skeleton ears seem questionable) need to have a expiry date or the player driven quest "get me 100 of x ears" would be satisfied by the guy that has alredy stored those ears in the appropriate bank.

I understands Bobs worry for this, and your resistance to useless items littering the world. But Diegos comment actully got me thinking... Is there a possibility to have decay of items?

Because if so I see a use of them for enchanting/rituals/stuff in the future combined with PC induced gathering quests.

I would also think that it would be nice immersionwise if each critter dropped a unique token.

[dream]

Perhaps when we get actual gears that shows up on the toon, the Jewlers can make special blings to show off like a necklace of bones that requires killing 100 risen adventurers...

Or a throne crafted from 100 ogre skulls for the settlement leader to sit upon in the hall when judging in conflict brought for solving.[/dream]

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Phaite wrote:

Maybe it's been addressed before, but I can't find any mention of it...

Is there or will there be a way to repair items, mundane and magical? From what I can tell, I could spend six months researching and collecting materials, refining them, saving up enough of everything I need to create that single awesome item I've been salivating over in my mind, then come up against that one opponent I can't quite get past and the item is now gone because I died 20 times before I realized it. Not to mention, with no stores of any kind and players starting out in an NPC settlement, there is no buying/selling of anything going on and there is no way to repair anything you've fought tooth and nail to acquire. And as a new player, some people die a lot and then they're without armor or weapons or whatever and there's not a thing they can do about it.

So far, there is no way to repair items, mundane or magical. The ability to repair items might show up eventually, but it won't be available during late Alpha or the beginning of Early Enrollment.

The lack of NPC stores means PC crafting will become a serious economy, but it also means that new players in NPC settlements have few purchasing options. Being a member of an NPC settlement is intended to become annoying after a while, but I hope that someone will try to keep the NPC settlement auction houses stocked for the "first day/week/month" characters. On the other hand, many characters at the beginning of Early Enrollment will have starter kits (Class Packs, Region Packs, etc.), and low level monsters drop a lot of Tier 1 +0 gear. When you're ready to move beyond Tier 1 +0, maybe it's time to find a PC settlement.

There is buying and selling going on. Unfortunately, from what I've seen and heard, the vast majority of it is now happening through in person trades, at the most active PC settlements, during East and Central US evening hours.

Players have really burned out on using the Auction Houses, even in active settlements. It requires a lot of clicking to find anything that's available for sale, and the sales only last 2 days*. For new players in NPC settlements, players in less-active PC settlements, and people who play during off-peak hours, buying and selling has indeed become difficult.

*Extending this deadline to 7 or 10 days might be a good alternative to the oft-requested, oft-rejected "Display only what's for sale in this Auction House" code.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

It would be interesting if salvage was usable for that kind of rituals. Schedim, without the need to add more items.

Rituals that require items that are usable as two different crafting materials, like broken goblin weapons that can be used either as copper or iron, would generate player driven quests if you need enough pieces.

"A reward of XX coins for 10 broken goblin weapons"

It can be done even today through the AH, but advertising it in the tavern or some other way have some interesting ramification.

Goblin Squad Member

Diego Rossi wrote:

It would be interesting if salvage was usable for that kind of rituals. Schedim, without the need to add more items.

Rituals that require items that are usable as two different crafting materials, like broken goblin weapons that can be used either as copper or iron, would generate player driven quests if you need enough pieces.

"A reward of XX coins for 10 broken goblin weapons"

It can be done even today through the AH, but advertising it in the tavern or some other way have some interesting ramification.

Exactly! Anything that creates assymetric demands/situations are good for intreactions. Especially as creatures in difference to materials will be moving targets. That gives explorers and travellers a much greater role.

I can imagine the weary traveller arriving to the Wizard settlement and in casual conversation mentions that other side settlement has been mustering to take out a incursion of newly arrived Hellhounds.
Suddenly looks aound wondering why everyone suddenly are running away, not knowing that there are a special staff that be created with hellhound paws....

Goblin Squad Member

New Bit of Thing:

I'm one of those stuck on a part of textures.pig so I went to uninstall/reinstall and get things working again when I found the new thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet.

The uninstall button couldn't get rid of some files so I have to do it manually, I'm used to that, but I couldn't delete because they were being used. I had closed the patcher. Even trashed the desktop short cuts. I'm not using anything from the patcher!

So good old friend Ctrl-Alt-Delete tells me there's still a process running named something like Pathfinder*32.exe. (I realized it might be good to let everyone know a part of it was sticking around after it appeared all closed up since that's been an issue lately, RIGHT AFTER I ended the process so I don't recall the exact file name)

Currently downloading v15 since Stephen promised me his car if that doesn't work. You can't back out of it Stephen it's in writing now!

RIP alpha version 8.1, lost at three months young 9/13/14-12/14/14

Goblin Squad Member

Hey guys! Sorry to bother you with the one which I supose is the most asked question, but the last blog entry didn't say anything about it (and I am as anxious as the next one)... Any ETA on the first enrollment?

This is my first post here. I'm waiting for Devir (Brazilian publisher) to publish Pathfinder material here, early 2015. As soon as I saw your kickstarter campaign I wanted to help and be part of it. I'm a big rpg and mmo fan, and I think it was about time we could have some more rpg on our mmos. Congratulations! Everything I read about Pathfinder Online makes me believe it will be masterpiece and I know you put your hearts on this project, so thank you! I wanna join you asap!

Goblin Squad Member

VinnieSP wrote:
Hey guys! Sorry to bother you with the one which I supose is the most asked question, but the last blog entry didn't say anything about it (and I am as anxious as the next one)... Any ETA on the first enrollment?

Not yet. They have a short list of essential fixes, and will give us about 48 hours notice, here, that they are moving to EE when they are satisfied that those fixes are at an acceptable level.


Proxima Sin of Brighthaven wrote:

New Bit of Thing:

I'm one of those stuck on a part of textures.pig so I went to uninstall/reinstall and get things working again when I found the new thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet.

Texture.pig took a long time for both the Mac and Windows patcher for me. I just assumed it was an outrageously large file. Either way, I got through it eventually.

Goblin Squad Member

My pigs took a very long time and when I checked the net traffic it was zero..... It was hung, and I gave up for the day... Tomorrow I get the fresh installer instead....


Separately, about the Mac Patcher, could yall rig it to stay open after launching the game? Its kinda annoying have to go through the whole patcher process again every time I have to change characters or relog.

Goblinworks Game Designer

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@Phaite

A repair system is designed out. It may be a while to get in. But it seems simpler to implement than the original idea we had, so my guess is that it won't be a super long time before we get to it.

@Schedim

Item decay is one of those things that the programmers would probably regret giving the designers because of all the crazy things we'd put it on. ;)

There are currently no designs for an item decay system, and it's also probably impractical due to all the extra tracking overhead it would require.

@Proxima Sin

I promised you Tork's car or Mike's car, not my car. I only bet with the cars of people that don't have cars.

Goblin Squad Member

Stephen Cheney wrote:

.

@Schedim

Item decay is one of those things that the programmers would probably regret giving the designers because of all the crazy things we'd put it on. ;)

The eternal seesaw between designer and programmer....

Quote:

There are currently no designs for an item decay system, and it's also probably impractical due to all the extra tracking overhead it would require.

If you put it as a count of server downtimes the tracking load would be less than minimal, I guess there must be some kind of spawn check at start up anyway...

Or the item decay if you drop it, so you have to carry it around and not put it in a vault... Although that would be hard with the thousand Ogre skulls, wouldn't it :-)

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Stephen Cheney wrote:

@Phaite

A repair system is designed out. It may be a while to get in. But it seems simpler to implement than the original idea we had, so my guess is that it won't be a super long time before we get to it.

That's great news! Thanks, Stephen.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:

Spherewalker - Favors for Lady Luck - Kill 10 ogre shamans.

Priest of Gozreh - Insidious Hero Gods - Kill 15 goblin shamans.
Priest of Gorum - Glorious Battle - Kill 5 boss knights.
Riftwarden - Seal the Rift - Kill 15 hell houds.
Priest of Abadar - Rolling Bones - Kill 25 skeletons.
Stag Bannerman - Dire Cull - Kill 10 dire wolves.

If anyone sees other quest-givers, please let us know.

In Alderwag next to AH, "Favors for lady luck" Slay Ogre Shamans

Goblin Squad Member

Stephen Cheney wrote:

@Proxima Sin

I promised you Tork's car or Mike's car, not my car. I only bet with the cars of people that don't have cars.

You're off the hook, the full uninstall/reinstall went smoothly and everything works fine after it's done.

Goblin Squad Member

Proxima Sin of Brighthaven wrote:
Stephen Cheney wrote:

@Proxima Sin

I promised you Tork's car or Mike's car, not my car. I only bet with the cars of people that don't have cars.

You're off the hook, the full uninstall/reinstall went smoothly and everything works fine after it's done.

I was forced to do the same and it went fine. I was annoyed that the Patcher wouldn't do its job but we're still under the Alpha tag so... yeah.

Goblin Squad Member

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Seems to me that we're more than a little overdue for a video update, especially for the progress made in Q4 2014.

The blog updates tell us a little, but the reassurance of familiar faces telling us about the behind-the-scenes action gives us a much better sense of where we are, and it keeps us emotionally invested in the activities of our friends working busily away in Goblinworks.
If a Q1 2015 EE release is likely then I'd rather you just kept plugging away. But if we may not see EE before Q2 2015 I think we all really need to hear from you in a video as soon as possible.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

From their list of self imposed needs to begin EE, server stability is their last goal before the start of EE. If our test is successful in 15 hours, then most likely the next patch will be the EE candidate.

Personally though, if I were Goblinworks, and the test does work, I would continue working on removing the last remaining bugs, making tool tips better, and adding a bit more to the tutorial systems, and finally more graphic and model updates before EE starts.

This allows them to launch EE in January, giving them Christmas day (for some the weekend off)and the new year off.

I could see them making another build over this weekend, implementing it by Tuesday, giving the staff off Wednesday night, Thursday, and some come back in Friday/Saturday and start working on tech for the Name Saving Kickstarter perk for EE. Launch that and a final new build on the 1st of January, and start EE on the 9th. Giving around 160-190 hours notice to save your name for EE.

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