How many mythic spells can Arcane and Divine creatures cast?


Rules Questions


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Here's the question: How many times can a creature with the Arcane or Divine mythic simple template cast a mythic spell?

For example, lets take an arcane gargoyle with mage armor, invisibility, false life and fireball as once per day spells it can cast. As a creature with a mythic simple template, it doesn't have the mythic subtype and therefore doesn't get some of the bonuses that come with it, like mythic power and the surge ability. Since it technically doesn't have mythic power, it seems like it's not supposed to be able to use it's mythic magic ability at all.

This seems like a silly conclusion to draw, since there's no reason to give it this ability unless it was meant to be used. So, ruling as intended, apparently these templates should allow mythic magic to be used a certain number of times per day. But how many is it? Is it always just three or does it depend on the HD and, therefore, the pseudo-effective mythic rank? Using the gargoyle from above, it is treated as a mythic rank 1 creature "for the purposes of spells, abilities, and magic items". Does that mean it's only presumed to have enough pseudo-mythic power to charge this ability once, as would be the case for an actual rank 1 creature? Or, is the presumption of such a resource in error and the monster should be able to use mythic magic three times per day regardless of its pseudo-rank?

Sorry for the long read, but I wanted to lay out the logic behind asking which RAI interpretation is correct. There's potentially a very big difference in a creature like this getting to do a mega-magic whammy once per day versus thrice.


Who knows. The RAW is broken here. I'd assume they would get the 3 uses or it's rank, whichever is less, as if they had mythic power.

(Edited because I misread something.)


I don't think it was intended to allow regular creatures to cast mythic spells, but to allow them to have some sort of spell casting ability. A good example would be a tyrannosaurus capable of using flame strike. Giving them a rank or more would allow them to take advantage of the ability.

So yeah, that particular ability gained from the template is worthless for regular monsters, but I still think it's a cool template for regular monsters.


Sauce987654321 wrote:

I don't think it was intended to allow regular creatures to cast mythic spells, but to allow them to have some sort of spell casting ability. A good example would be a tyrannosaurus capable of using flame strike. Giving them a rank or more would allow them to take advantage of the ability.

So yeah, that particular ability gained from the template is worthless for regular monsters, but I still think it's a cool template for regular monsters.

Except that, if that's the intent, there's be utterly no reason to give this otherwise normal creature the Mythic Magic monster ability. They'd just leave it at Simple Arcane/Divine Spellcasting. Having to stack the template with actual mythic ranks would get confusing and tiresome real fast, too.


blahpers wrote:

Who knows. The RAW is broken here. I'd assume they would get the 3 uses or it's rank, whichever is less, as if they had mythic power.

(Edited because I misread something.)

The thing is, it'd always be less than 3 since the most it would give a creature in effective ranks is 2. I suppose you could stack two different simple templates, but then there's weirdness with that idea too in that it's unclear whether certain other bonuses would stack. That last part's a matter for a different thread, though.


Arcane/Divine Simple Template (CR +1; MR 1 or 2) wrote:

Creatures with the arcane/divine template are infused with arcane/divine power, capable of casting a limited number of arcane/divine spells. If the creature has 11 or more Hit Dice, this simple template grants a mythic rank of 2 instead of 1. An arcane/divine creature's quick and rebuild rules are the same.

Rebuild Rules (Arcane): AC +2 deflection bonus; hp mythic bonus hit points (see Mythic Bonus Hit Points sidebar); SR gains SR equal to its new CR + 11; Special Attacks mythic magic, simple arcane spellcasting.

Rebuild Rules (Divine): Aura aura of grace (creature and all allies within 10 feet receive a +2 sacred bonus on saving throws—or a profane bonus if the templated creature is evil); AC +2 deflection bonus; hp mythic bonus hit points (see Mythic Bonus Hit Points sidebar); Special Attacks mythic magic, simple divine spellcasting.

Simple Arcane Spellcasting wrote:

The creature gains the ability to cast spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

Select a number of spells with total spell levels equal to twice the creature's CR. No spell for this ability should have a level higher than 1 + 1/2 the creature's CR. A 0-level spell counts as 1/2 spell level toward this total.

The creature can cast each of these spells once per day.

Its caster level is equal to its Hit Dice. It uses the higher of its Intelligence or Charisma modifiers to determine its spell DCs.

Casting Mythic Spells wrote:


If you know the mythic version of a spell, any time you cast the spell, you may expend one use of mythic power to convert the spell into its mythic version as you cast it. This doesn't change the level of the spell slot you use to cast the spell. If you're a caster who prepares spells (such as a cleric or wizard), you never have to prepare the mythic version of a spell-if you prepare the non-mythic version, you may cast it as the mythic version by expending one use of mythic power. Unless otherwise specified, casting the mythic version of a spell doesn't take any longer than casting the non-mythic version.

Since the creature has a Mythic Rank of 2, you can assume it has 2 uses of Mythic Power per day, meaning it can turn 2 of its spells into Mythic spells per day.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
chbgraphicarts wrote:
Since the creature has a Mythic Rank of 2, you can assume it has 2 uses of Mythic Power per day, meaning it can turn 2 of its spells into Mythic spells per day.

Unless of course it uses it's mythic power for other things.


This is pretty simple.

A critter with the arcane or divine mythic templates gets 1 or 2 ranks based on its hit dice, the mythic magic monster ability, and simple arcane/divine casting.

chb left this out of his analysis:

PRD wrote:
Mythic Magic (Su): Up to three times per day, when the creature casts a spell, it can cast the mythic version instead (as with all mythic spells, the creature must expend mythic power to cast a mythic spell in this way).

So while the critter can technically cast 3 mythic spells a day, it only has 1 or 2 mythic power to do it, and so only really only gets 1 or 2 spells. Unless, of course, something is done to restore its mythic power (like giving the creature Steal Power as one of its spells from simple arcane/divine casting.)

Note that it's only a +1 CR simple template. I think the creature only being able to use a couple mythic spells is fine.

But note that a real mythic monster with at least 3 ranks gets the full benefit of the mythic magic ability - which you can just give the creature as one of its powers.


A non mythic monster with that template gains no mythic surges


How I've been running it: a creature with a mythic simple template gets one or two mythic power, because those are a trapping of the rank itself (like the bonus HP), but doesn't get the mythic surge ability - so it actually has power, but by default its mythic spellcasting ability is the only thing it can spend the power on.

Or if you gave it an appropriate mythic magic item.

So yeah, an agile, invincible, or savage critter has 1 or 2 points of power it can't actually spend without an item to use.

Which I'm fine with it; again, the templates are only +1 CR.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I actually give monsters with mythic templates mythic power uses equal to their mythic rank (along with the surge ability) and one mythic feat (which can be used for Extra Mythic Power). Considering how powerful mythic PCs are, it's not that big of a boost to the monsters while giving them a little more mythic feel (and lets the GM customize them a little bit more).

Because templates don't grant the full mythic subtype, they do not grant additional mythic abilities (beyond any granted by the template), add their mythic rank to natural armor or SR, gain DR (except as specified by the template), or the ability bonus at MR 2.

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