Why (some among) US police behave so violently?


Off-Topic Discussions

451 to 466 of 466 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>

Freehold DM wrote:

Fergurg, I believe I have been patient with you, but your implications, if not your words and tone, are potentially out of line here.

Answer me this seriously. And take time to consider before you respond.

Are you seriously saying "if you don't like it, leave the country? "

I'm not; I genuinely don't understand. From the statements of ShinHakkaider, he hates the country he lives in, hates the people he lives around, and is afraid for his son's life. This isn't a "my country is flawed" or even a "this country has big problems that need to be fixed." He emphasized by using the Internet version of yelling that he has hatred toward this country and its people. Yet he stays. He is raising his son in the country he hates, surrounded by people he hates, and, yes, teaching that hate to his son. I personally cannot imagine living in a place that affected me on that level.

There has to be some benefit he's getting out of benefit; that's just human nature to endure something if the benefit outweighs it. Is his job/pay/benefits that good? Family that can't move for some reason? Does everywhere else suck more?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ShadowcatX wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Fergurg wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Fergurg wrote:
But you know what Rosa Parks didn't do? She didn't yell, "Burn this b~*$* down!"

What she did say was, "It was not pre-arranged. It just happened that the driver made a demand and I just didn't feel like obeying his demand."

So what she did was more along the lines of not getting out of the street while holding some cheap cigars...

Oh, wait.

I guess the bus driver should have shot her, right?

Only if she was running at the bus driver, trying to take his gun.

She was breaking the law. She refused to move and was arrested.

According to some here, any resistance, even passive disobedience to the arresting officer, justifies beating the criminal while yelling "Stop resisting". Throw in a "Stop reaching for my gun" and you can shoot them too.

Of course, it was a different era back then. The cops didn't need to make excuses, they just waited for the all-white jury to let them off. Nowadays the same thing happens, but the legal contortions have gotten more complicated.

Who here has said that? Who here has said anything even remotely close to that? I'd love to see a quote.

Of course no one says that outright, but if the cop says they were resisting, it always seems to be fine.


Freehold DM wrote:
Fergurg wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Let's not conflate Brown and Parks. Those are two completely different situations.
Uh oh. The Apocalypse has come! I agree with Freehold DM about something.
a potential stopped clocks situation, to be sure.

Agree with me more, and we can both be right more often. :-)


thejeff wrote:
flag and forget

no, I really want to know.

My family before me is Panamanian. I am the first and only child of my father and mother born in this country (dad has several other children, as he got around due to his overarching levels of black manliness). My dad loved Panama as to him it was a place of opportunity and business and family, even living in a bad, bad neighborhood. He learned a great many skills(still owns his own business, wakes up at 6 every morning and goes to work in his back yard as a furniture restorer, carpenter), and did what he could to improve his lot in life. However, that all changed when he was accused of a crime he didn't commit on laughably flimsy evidence, even by the standards of the time. The police let him go, but considering the circumstances of his accusation, it was a matter of time before they came looking for him again. The type of bigotry in the area and time period (dad's 81 now) made the idiocy even harder to swallow. He left for America within the month, and although he had to deal with a different type of racism here, he never let me forget the reason why he came here in the first place was because he felt he couldn't trust the legal authorities back home.

Nowadays, dad says he's from Lynchburg, TX. I don't know if he's ever even been there, and I am too much of a gentleman to ask. But that's the story he tells.

There are circumstances where leaving a bad situation is understandable and even encourage able. I am not convinced that is the case with respect to what has been happening with the police in america.


houstonderek wrote:

Considering that DeBlassio is rapidly losing the respect of the NYPD with his public statements about the situation, I'd say the whole conspiracy theory things is about as ridiculous a statement I've heard in a while. He was already on shaky ground with them based on his statements when he was running for the office. There is no love between the mayor's office and the police union.

NY is not going to be a fun place while they deal with the logical outcome of twenty years of gentrification and, even before 9/11, a seriously concentrated assault on crime by NYPD, with, as I'm sure FreeholdDM can tell you, a metric assload of misconduct, abuse, and outright murder. The blowback is coming at a time we're already sensitive to police excess, so I would almost feel bad for the NYPD, if it weren't for them bringing much of this on themselves for the way they've acted the last twenty years.

yeah. We're reaping the whirlwind, alright.

Liberty's Edge

Since Anklebiter's discovered girls, I feel someone needs to take up his slack...

I'll just leave this here.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
ShadowcatX wrote:


2) It is all well and good to say "(Other) People need to stand up for their rights at the risk of their life." Or to try and compare this situation to civil disobedience, but you know what, Rosa Parks didn't have to worry about getting shot half a dozen or more times.

This is not at all what is being said. Literally no-one is saying "other people need to stand up for their rights at the risk of their life". What we are saying is that _if_ they stand up for their rights, we should stand in support with them, not blame them for being stupid or not compliant and submissive enough.

And looking at the number of black people killed during Rosa Parks' active years, yes she did have to worry about that.

You, and others of your stance, are the one telling others how to deal with oppression. We are saying that regardless of how they act, we should support them, not second-guess them.

Quote:
3) Is saying "Comply in order to stay alive" close to saying "They should've complied then they'd still be alive"? Not in my book.

Why would you tell strangers that anyway? If they're part of a group that is majorly affected by this, they either already know the risks of claiming their rights (and your comment just comes across as judgemental or victim blaming or police apoligia) or they have issues with complying, such as mental health issues that may hinder them, and your comment won't make a difference.

There is a huge difference between a black parent telling their kid to be careful around cops and someone proclaiming on internet that black people should be compliant and submissive, in a thread about police violence.

Victim blaming is much broader than explicitly saying "It's your fault as a victim". Second-guessing the victim, coming with moralistic judgements on their actions, being overly questioning and requiring ridiculous amounts of evidence etc are all part of the victim blaming culture, and which also tends to always strike downwards; a white guy robbed by a black guy won't risk hearing "Are you sure he understood that you didn't want to give up your money? Were you explicit enough in saying no? Are you sure you don't misremember? Well it's stupid to have cash on you, you really should have a safer way of storing money!" etc etc. That doesn't really happen, and certainly not on a systemic level. Neither of those are explicitly saying "It was your fault you were robbed", but all are part of a victim blaming culture where the victim have to overly explain and be judged for their actions while less focus is put on the perpetrators.

Also, look at what Fergurg is actually writing. They're clearly and over the top victim blaming, and both claiming that if you resist you should be shot and then accusing a black guy that teaches their kids basically the same thing of "hating everyone not of their own race".
It's the same thing as with rape apologists; they claim that women shouldn't wear the wrong clothes/be at the wrong places/be out at the wrong time/wear too much makeup/wear too little makeup/be flirty/be a prude/whatever, because then rapists can't control themselves and they can't know who's a rapist, and then some women decide that "well, in that case we'll just keep away from men", starting separatist spaces and avoiding men in public, they're called "man haters".
Same thing, it's a damned if you do/damned if you don't that is perpetrated by members of a dominant group against members of an oppressed group in order to prevent them from protecting themselves from aggression. In Swedish it's called "dubbelbestraffning", or "double punishment", and is a common trend in these kinds of exploitative systems.


Gaberlunzie wrote:
Also, look at what Fergurg is actually writing. They're clearly and over the top victim blaming, and both claiming that if you resist you should be shot and then accusing a black guy that teaches their kids basically the same thing of "hating everyone not of their own race".

Wrong again. Yes, if a person is resisting arrest, the police need to stop it from happening. If a person tries to grab the cop's gun, that is grounds for stopping him. The cop does not have an obligation to not protect his life.

And as for accusing the black guy, I quoted what he said, He said he HATED this country and its countrymen. I asked him why he chooses to stay, given his HATRED (caps were also his).

And as for victim-blaming, is it your opinion that a person making an assertion of being a victim should be believed at all times? Because asking questions about these things is often how the truth comes out (e.g. Duke University, Rolling Stone). And if a person making an accusation should be automatically believed, would it not make sense to extend that expectation to white cops or Hispanic neighborhood watchmen who say, "He attacked me."?


Fergurg wrote:
I'm not; I genuinely don't understand. From the statements of ShinHakkaider, he hates the country he lives in, hates the people he lives around, and is afraid for his son's life. This isn't a "my country is flawed" or even a "this country has big problems that need to be fixed." He emphasized by using the Internet version of yelling that he has hatred toward this country and its people. Yet he stays. He is raising his son in the country he hates, surrounded by people he hates, and, yes, teaching that hate to his son. ...more...

I should stay out of this, but here goes...

Please point out where he is teaching his son to hate... I couldn't find anything of the sort.
ShinHakkaider wrote:
"The amount of pure HATRED I feel for my countrymen and this country in general because I have to prepare him like this at such a young age is maddening."

Emphasis added. I suggest you re-read ShinHakkaider post, then adjust your questions to what it actually says. As it is, your questions seem out of line.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Fergurg wrote:
Gaberlunzie wrote:
Also, look at what Fergurg is actually writing. They're clearly and over the top victim blaming, and both claiming that if you resist you should be shot and then accusing a black guy that teaches their kids basically the same thing of "hating everyone not of their own race".

Wrong again. Yes, if a person is resisting arrest, the police need to stop it from happening. If a person tries to grab the cop's gun, that is grounds for stopping him. The cop does not have an obligation to not protect his life.

And as for accusing the black guy, I quoted what he said, He said he HATED this country and its countrymen. I asked him why he chooses to stay, given his HATRED (caps were also his).

And as for victim-blaming, is it your opinion that a person making an assertion of being a victim should be believed at all times? Because asking questions about these things is often how the truth comes out (e.g. Duke University, Rolling Stone). And if a person making an accusation should be automatically believed, would it not make sense to extend that expectation to white cops or Hispanic neighborhood watchmen who say, "He attacked me."?

Because they killed the people who can protest their story.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Caineach wrote:
Fergurg wrote:
Gaberlunzie wrote:
Also, look at what Fergurg is actually writing. They're clearly and over the top victim blaming, and both claiming that if you resist you should be shot and then accusing a black guy that teaches their kids basically the same thing of "hating everyone not of their own race".

Wrong again. Yes, if a person is resisting arrest, the police need to stop it from happening. If a person tries to grab the cop's gun, that is grounds for stopping him. The cop does not have an obligation to not protect his life.

And as for accusing the black guy, I quoted what he said, He said he HATED this country and its countrymen. I asked him why he chooses to stay, given his HATRED (caps were also his).

And as for victim-blaming, is it your opinion that a person making an assertion of being a victim should be believed at all times? Because asking questions about these things is often how the truth comes out (e.g. Duke University, Rolling Stone). And if a person making an accusation should be automatically believed, would it not make sense to extend that expectation to white cops or Hispanic neighborhood watchmen who say, "He attacked me."?

Because they killed the people who can protest their story.

many people do not realize that when it is your word against a corpse, even with witnesses, and the person accused is in some type of law enforcement, they are probably going to walk.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Fergurg wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
The time to worry about your rights is when you're safe. Until things change significantly, when you're dealing with a cop, worry about not getting shot. (Especially if you're not caucasian.)

Pretty much this.

I've told my son a few simple things.

The police are not your friends. They are not there to help you. Because they deal with criminals who mostly look like you? To them youre just another criminal. If you can avoid them STAY AWAY.

If you are confronted. Be calm. be polite and comply.

If they want you to jump up and down on one leg and recite the our father? Comply.

If they want you to lay face down on the dirty sidewalk with your arms spread out! Comply.

Comply. Comply. Comply.

Because if you do not? THEY WILL KILL YOU. and then say it was your fault because you have no true right to exist as a human being. And unfortunately most of this country agrees with them.

So Swallow your pride. Comply and Live.

I've been telling him this since he was 10. He's going to be 13 in a few weeks. The amount of pure HATRED I feel for my countrymen and this country in general because I have to prepare him like this at such a young age is maddening. But at the end of the day I'd rather have him humiliated, but home and alive than proud and in a graveyard in a pine box.

I know that there are some of you who are going to be quick to say I'm an awful parent or am teaching him hatred. Some of you have voiced this before. To you I'm going to say one thing: When you are raising a young black male in this country and have also grown up as a young black male in this country THEN MAYBE I'll take seriously anything that you have to say. IF not Then youre just talking about a bunch of things that you know next to NOTHING about.

Not being snarky, genuine question. Since you have your hatred of your fellow countrymen and this country, to the point where you dismiss the views of everybody that is not your race, why do you...

For everyone out there that doesn't believe white privilege is a thing; behold the quoted post. It pretty well encapsulates it.

edit: just to be clear. The question asked is itself white privilege, not the pretext.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Fergurg wrote:
Gaberlunzie wrote:
Also, look at what Fergurg is actually writing. They're clearly and over the top victim blaming, and both claiming that if you resist you should be shot and then accusing a black guy that teaches their kids basically the same thing of "hating everyone not of their own race".

Wrong again. Yes, if a person is resisting arrest, the police need to stop it from happening. If a person tries to grab the cop's gun, that is grounds for stopping him. The cop does not have an obligation to not protect his life.

And as for accusing the black guy, I quoted what he said, He said he HATED this country and its countrymen. I asked him why he chooses to stay, given his HATRED (caps were also his).

And as for victim-blaming, is it your opinion that a person making an assertion of being a victim should be believed at all times? Because asking questions about these things is often how the truth comes out (e.g. Duke University, Rolling Stone). And if a person making an accusation should be automatically believed, would it not make sense to extend that expectation to white cops or Hispanic neighborhood watchmen who say, "He attacked me."?

No. My opinion is that such claims shouldn't be investigated by the accused's friends and co-workers and left up to the local prosecutor, who needs the close cooperation of the police force to do his job.

I also think that cameras will help and that there need to be other reforms to police training and practice - more community involvement and less reliance on dominance by force.

In the meantime, knowing that the police often lie upon the stand and will generally be believed, until things actually change, I'm going to err on the side of believing the victims, not the killers.

Webstore Gninja Minion

Locking this thread—we don't need any more hostility or negativity on our site.

451 to 466 of 466 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Gamer Life / Off-Topic Discussions / Why (some among) US police behave so violently? All Messageboards
Recent threads in Off-Topic Discussions
Deep 6 FaWtL
Ramblin' Man
Weird News Stories
Good New Stories
Did you know...?
Conversational phrases
Quotes Thread