Possess object and Witch Hexes (su)


Rules Questions


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Scenario : Witch possesses a stone statue via "Possess object". Possess object clearly states the witch cannot speak nor cast spells. *Can* the witch use its hexes (su) while in the stone statue? Cackle or any other hex that would be verbal dependant would not be possible, but (su) usually doesn't require V,S,M and is just a standard action.

I'm thinking of : evil eye, retribution, healing touch, flight, hag's eye, swamp grasp, misfortune, fortune, and slumber.

Would the witch, inside the stone statue, be able to use (some of) its hexes?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Bloodyraven wrote:

Scenario : Witch possesses a stone statue via "Possess object". Possess object clearly states the witch cannot speak nor cast spells. *Can* the witch use its hexes (su) while in the stone statue? Cackle or any other hex that would be verbal dependant would not be possible, but (su) usually doesn't require V,S,M and is just a standard action.

I'm thinking of : evil eye, retribution, healing touch, flight, hag's eye, swamp grasp, misfortune, fortune, and slumber.

Would the witch, inside the stone statue, be able to use (some of) its hexes?

Bump


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Bump


Presumably.

I'm not even sure Cackle is technically verbal-dependent. Truth of the matter is it's just GM's call. Cackling in a silence spell, for example, has no rules stating it doesn't work.

Strictly speaking, I haven't even found text that clarifies you need line-of-sight or line-of-effect to hit enemies with supernatural abilities, but I also never got a clear answer on whether or not a gaze attack works through an invisible wall or an invisible blindfold either.


Possess object functions like magic jar. Magic jar has the following:

magic jar wrote:
You can't choose to activate the body's extraordinary or supernatural abilities.

This heavily implies that supernatural abilities are part of a particular body and not the soul as the target's soul is no longer in the body yet it still calls them out as not being options. It's not a direct yes or no. However, it would seem the answer is no, you cannot use supernatural abilities in another body as yours are housed within your body elsewhere while you inhabit another creature or object in the case of possess object.


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boring7 wrote:

Presumably.

I'm not even sure Cackle is technically verbal-dependent. Truth of the matter is it's just GM's call. Cackling in a silence spell, for example, has no rules stating it doesn't work.

Actally, there is: FAQ

FAQ wrote:

Witch, Cackle Hex: Does my character literally have to cackle madly when I use this hex, or is that just flavor text?

Your character actually has to cackle—probably in a strong voice, akin to the volume and clarity necessary for verbal spell components.

Edit 7/19/13:
If the witch is in a silence effect, she can't use the cackle hex.
If the target is in a silence effect, it is unaffected by the cackle.
This may require some clarifying text in the next printing of the Advanced Player's Guide.

/cevah


Uwotm8 wrote:

Possess object functions like magic jar. Magic jar has the following:

magic jar wrote:
You can't choose to activate the body's extraordinary or supernatural abilities.
This heavily implies that supernatural abilities are part of a particular body and not the soul as the target's soul is no longer in the body yet it still calls them out as not being options. It's not a direct yes or no. However, it would seem the answer is no, you cannot use supernatural abilities in another body as yours are housed within your body elsewhere while you inhabit another creature or object in the case of possess object.

Only some supernatural abilities are dependent on the body, others are granted by class (such as in the case of Witch hexes). Consider the following text on Polymorph spells:

Magic Section wrote:
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.


Even so, not all of them would work. Prehensile hair, for instance, just wouldn't work as statues simply don't have hair. So, even a class granted supernatural ability can be limited to your physical body. Also, posses object isn't a polymorph spell so there is no guarantee of transference even when a new receptacle for your consciousness might be capable of utilizing it. The only distinction we have to work from that isn't conjecture is magic jar which does delineate supernatural abilities according to body rather than soul.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Torchlyte wrote:

Possess object functions like magic jar. Magic jar has the following:

magic jar wrote:
You can't choose to activate the body's extraordinary or supernatural abilities.
This heavily implies that supernatural abilities are part of a particular body and not the soul as the target's soul is no longer in the body yet it still calls them out as not being options. It's not a direct yes or no. However, it would seem the answer is no, you cannot use supernatural abilities in another body as yours are housed within your body elsewhere while you inhabit another creature or object in the case of possess object.

Actually, it implies the exact opposite. It implies that the supernatural abilities are part of the soul. If it was merely 'body dependent' then anyone who control's the body should be able to activate the su. Since it states that taking over the body, one cannot activate the ex or su of the new body, it stands to reason that the soul takes the ex and su along with them to the new form/when pushed out.

The caveat being the new form requires speech; has to have hair; etc. in order to utilize the witch's hexes.

Retribution, evil eye, fortune, swamp grasp, flight, and/or any other hex that doesn't require anything other than a standard action (no verbal, no materials) should be workable.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sometimes they are both. A supernatural ability may be part of the soul, but still require the requisite body part as a medium or focus.

I may have the SU ability to manipulate my hair, but if someone just gave me a balding hair cut, I've got nothing to use that ability on.

Dark Archive

LazarX wrote:

Sometimes they are both. A supernatural ability may be part of the soul, but still require the requisite body part as a medium or focus.

I may have the SU ability to manipulate my hair, but if someone just gave me a balding hair cut, I've got nothing to use that ability on.

Whether you have had your hair shaved or not has no impact on this hex.

It specifies that you GROW the hair out to 10 feet, never states you have to have hair already. If that where the case then Kobold, Tengu, Nagaji, etc. would never be able to take this hex.

Look at the sorceror entry on their claws, they can grow their claws even of the form doesn't have nails.

Liberty's Edge

Uwotm8 wrote:

Possess object functions like magic jar. Magic jar has the following:

magic jar wrote:
You can't choose to activate the body's extraordinary or supernatural abilities.
This heavily implies that supernatural abilities are part of a particular body and not the soul as the target's soul is no longer in the body yet it still calls them out as not being options. It's not a direct yes or no. However, it would seem the answer is no, you cannot use supernatural abilities in another body as yours are housed within your body elsewhere while you inhabit another creature or object in the case of possess object.

This line of the spell doesn't say that you can't use su or ex abilities, it says you can't use the body's su or ex abilities. So just use your own, if you have any...

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