desyncing, death & durability


Pathfinder Online

Goblin Squad Member

Desyncing now appears to cause death when you relog, and on top of that the loss of 2 points of durability.

Death seems to mean you drop off the map, relogging to fix this also causes an extra loss of durability.

It's really not fun to play at the moment. The gear I made this morning has lost 8 points of durability due to this.

Goblin Squad Member

I read that! I have mentioned the extra durability hits in the alpha forums. I know that Ryan posted in that thread after. I hope that they have noticed it and are investigating.

CEO, Goblinworks

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Bug was filed. Team is aware.

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Bug was filed. Team is aware.

+1 extra for communicating this so timely and on a holiday weekend. :)

Goblin Squad Member

I just experienced this bug after the patch today. I seemed to be running along just fine, but I went to a tower and it was not incrementing the control counter when I was inside, so I quit and returned to game.

Upon return, I had died and taken the double durability hit, and could now see the minions that I was not seeing while de-synced.

I was doing a lot of running around in lightly populated areas in the south and experienced no problems until this de-sync just south of Canis Castrum.

Goblin Squad Member

Oki, logged on first time after 13, the numbers bad reputation certainly applies to me. Either it was my creation of a personal company (did it after just 10 min of play) or something is really in this patch (I assume it is the former).

About every 10th minute or so I desync, sometimes I get instantly kicked, sometimes I discover it myself, due to the fact that everything begin to disappear, nodes first, then people.

Sometimes I can Quit and get back without problem, sometimes I come back from the dead with durability loss.

I'll try to download a new installer and start from the beginning but the download speed is only a trickle...

CEO, Goblinworks

Are you using a wifi connection? If you are, try using a wired link and see if the situation improves.

Goblin Squad Member

100 Mbit ethernet and then optic fibre....

I'll try my wifi after downtime!


I'm having similar new issues as Schedim with this patch. Desync, loss of nodes and people in the woods, loss of inventory tabs and building interaction in town. It seems to happen after at least a couple hours of play.

Mostly it is fixed in one shot of quitting out and rejoining. Occasionally relaunching the patcher is needed. Twice now, it logged back in to desync no matter what (different characters and accounts, reset router, reboot pc and router, wait, etc.). First time I just waited until after server downtime the next day and it was fine. It happened last evening but I haven't logged in yet today.

Disclaimer - I am on satellite interwebs. I know... I know... The lines are sprayed for the trenches and they will be digging real internet to us soon.

EDIT: 11:30am MST I just logged in to two accounts at the same time with no issues.

CEO, Goblinworks

Reinstalling isn't fixing any problems. What it is doing is making time pass, which is causing something else to correct itself. Perhaps its some issue in the various routers between you and us. Perhaps it's that long-delayed packets are finally arriving or timing out and are no longer reaching the client and confusing it. Whatever it is, it's just time.

If you are seeing various systems stop working while you play, that's a desynch. We know that it is possible for the client to lose its connection to some, but not all, of the servers it needs to be attached to in order for the game to function correctly. These are often asynchronous connections (which means there's not a continuous flow of data going both directions) so it is hard to detect when the connection is actually broken and when there's just no traffic.

There is a bug filed in the system that requests that the various servers take a look on a schedule and see if they can detect clients that are partially connected and either fix those connections, or boot them. (We don't want to run that check constantly because of the overhead it consumes so the time between checks is something that will have to be tweaked based on real-world performance). No eta on when that fix will be applied but it should be soon.

Like a lot of the recent server work, this isn't going to make your connection more stable. What it is going to do is get you disconnected more gracefully so you know you have a problem.

If you're experiencing these problems consistently, right now I have two pieces of advice.

First, turn down the graphic setting that you are using. That will reduce the amount of load on your system. It is possible that there's some subtle interaction between load on your system, and the networking layer that is causing packets to be missed or misprocessed.

Second, try bypassing your wifi connection. We have had several positive reports from players that got a stable connection by going with a wired link. That's almost certainly due to the fact that their clients are running very close to the edge of desynch and the additional number of dropped or malformed packets that comes with wireless networking was the straw that broke that particular camel.

Goblin Squad Member

In the past all my desyncs has been solved with logout and not quitting. Now that isnt possible....

I tried everything short of full reinstall ...

CEO, Goblinworks

The logout function turned out to be really dangerous. There are a number of structures in memory that were not being disposed of and/or garbage collected correctly, and some networking effects that could occur if a late packet showed up after the logout.

A clean quit completely clears all that stuff and the time to restart should let any inbound packets timeout.

If you're not able to get back in after a clean quit, I'd give it 5 minutes, then try again. It may take your system some time to actually remove the program and its associated modules from RAM and we aren't sure what they may be doing until all the processes are killed.

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:
It may take your system some time to actually remove the program and its associated modules from RAM and we aren't sure what they may be doing until all the processes are killed.

Just provide a list of what processes the game uses and we can kill them in task manager.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Networking services should not be killed via task manager.

Goblin Squad Member

Wow at all the network bugs and trouble. :O

Is all that just par for the course for a game in alpha, and NDA's kept the average Joe(me) blissfully unaware of all that, or is PFO in deep trouble?

I think I prefer to be unaware of it all, since reading about it just makes me lose faith that you guys will ever get it working (with thousands online). :(

I am also beginning to understand why it is the network engineers that usually have the highest pay.

Goblin Squad Member

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Tyncale wrote:

Wow at all the network bugs and trouble. :O

Is all that just par for the course for a game in alpha, and NDA's kept the average Joe(me) blissfully unaware of all that, or is PFO in deep trouble?

The answer is "blissfully unaware".

I'm trying to think of a metaphor to describe where the game is at year 2 out of 5. It's like a theatre production where the actors are still learning and reading from scripts and placement is getting marked out. Costumes are starting to be designed but they don't have everyone's measurements yet and the set is a pile of lumber and paint cans. The actors can move around and read the entire script so you can sit in a seat and "watch" the show but it is far from finished. There will be problems along the way, clear up until show time, but they will be dealt with.

I enjoy being a part of where the magic happens and the structured chaos of it all. Many can't handle it though and that's fine. Those folks should wait until everything is good to go or they tend to turn into doomsayers and get so caught up in what they are preaching that they only try to hinder, instead of help make it great. Very few can walk the line of "wait and see", most either like something or hate it.

So to prevent all the hate and doomsaying and negative perception, the common practice is to keep the prospective consumer in the dark until the product is finished. Then it is hyped up to get them excited about it, all the while they're blissfully unaware of the problems and difficulties that cropped up and were overcome during development.

Goblin Squad Member

New day, tried the patch on the lowspec laptop over WIFI and 3G, and no problem (except from the slight lag now and then).

Back at the slightly (coff. coff) better maching there is no problem. BTW are there any indication of outstanding applications of company affilation? I didn't see any so I re applied and still a couple of hours later there is no trouble at all...

And this by the same install as yester day 8I did even restart my machine betwwen re inloggs and the problem persisted then.)

Perhaps the maintainance downtime fixed something...

Goblin Squad Member

Ravenlute wrote:
Tyncale wrote:

Wow at all the network bugs and trouble. :O

Is all that just par for the course for a game in alpha, and NDA's kept the average Joe(me) blissfully unaware of all that, or is PFO in deep trouble?

The answer is "blissfully unaware".

I'm trying to think of a metaphor to describe where the game is at year 2 out of 5. It's like a theatre production where the actors are still learning and reading from scripts and placement is getting marked out. Costumes are starting to be designed but they don't have everyone's measurements yet and the set is a pile of lumber and paint cans. The actors can move around and read the entire script so you can sit in a seat and "watch" the show but it is far from finished. There will be problems along the way, clear up until show time, but they will be dealt with.

I enjoy being a part of where the magic happens and the structured chaos of it all. Many can't handle it though and that's fine. Those folks should wait until everything is good to go or they tend to turn into doomsayers and get so caught up in what they are preaching that they only try to hinder, instead of help make it great. Very few can walk the line of "wait and see", most either like something or hate it.

So to prevent all the hate and doomsaying and negative perception, the common practice is to keep the prospective consumer in the dark until the product is finished. Then it is hyped up to get them excited about it, all the while they're blissfully unaware of the problems and difficulties that cropped up and were overcome during development.

Excellent post, that painted a really good picture. :)

About alpha's;

I have been into one other alpha that was comparable to this one and that was Shadowbane. That game was truly in alpha when I first joined, and it definately was in worse shape then PFO now. In the end they went live with that horrible SB.exe error still in full swing, so I hope PFO will be different. Shadowbane was more feature-complete though.

If you take EQnext's "alpha", then I must say that that alpha seemed much further along when it came to network functionality, however lots of features were (and are) still missing. But that could probably be attributed to the fact that SOE is using true and tried network functionality, rather then having to figure out a whole new ball-game, like GW must do. So not a fair comparison.

I never really become a true doomsayer, though I have been known to express my disappointment in the past: I have been beta-ing stuff since Everquest and I have learned a few things down the road. You are very right in saying that the doomsayer loop can be really nasty. I can see people run onto the stage and kicking over those paint-buckets. ;)

With PFO I felt that more could have been done with the budget and time, but I start to understand now how much uncharted territory PFO needs to get right. So now I am more like "surely a fresh indy team can't pull that off!".

And then Ryan starts to describe the network bugs in detail.....
Something that I can not remember Wolfpack devs doing, though I may have missed it. I was also much more optimistic about the MMO genre back then. :D

With PFO I am trying the "wait and see" method, though this gets hard when for the past 2 months you still can not scroll in the AH UI! :)

I bolded it, and put a smiley behind it, because something like that shows how disconnected a development team and the players can be in what they feel is priority. Or rather, what they feel is "progress".

Off course imo the devs are always right in their priority, but that does not mean I like it. And the progress that the devs are undoubtedly experiencing is probably not the sort of stuff that would make us exited. I feel that almost no amount of communication can resolve this.

And off course a game's development can slowly steer away from what some people expected. This is probably the biggest reason that people turn into doomsayers. I must say that has not happened yet for me. It also seems a little too early in development for that.

Anyway, I hope I like the play once it hits the theaters! ;)

On a different note: don't you miss the days on the Freevale forums? Stuff is really dead now, on lots of other forums too.

Goblin Squad Member

The AH is actually the biggest disappointment, all the other stuff, desyncing and malfunctioning nodes I can take (although I think the nodes took a tad to long to fix), bugs are expected in alpha, but the AH... heralded as important and essential for EE ... and they didn't put filters in... or scrolling... pfffff

Goblin Squad Member

Ravenlute wrote:
I'm trying to think of a metaphor to describe where the game is at year 2 out of 5. It's like a theatre production where the actors are still learning and reading from scripts and placement is getting marked out. Costumes are starting to be designed but they don't have everyone's measurements yet and the set is a pile of lumber and paint cans. The actors can move around and read the entire script so you can sit in a seat and "watch" the show but it is far from finished. There will be problems along the way, clear up until show time, but they will be dealt with.

Best Metaphor Ever!

I loved the whole post. Really, really great way to explain it :)

Goblin Squad Member

Then Ryan is our demondirector... our Ingemar Bergman!

Goblin Squad Member

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Tyncale wrote:
I have been into one other alpha that was comparable to this one and that was Shadowbane.

I didn't experience the Shadowbane Alpha but I did play it right when it went gold, preordered and everything. There were problems with the game such as the SB.exe error you mentioned but they also had amazing features that I had never experienced in an MMO before. It was also my first FFA PvP game. As such, Shadowbane is the standard I compare any other game that claims to have FFA PvP and siege warfare. I have been searching for a game for many years that does justice to these ideas in the way that Shadowbane had and was one of the strong pulls for me to investigate PFO.

I'm glad I wasn't involved in the Shadowbane Alpha because, at that time, I may have burnt out on the game by the time it released and that would have been a real tragedy.

Tyncale wrote:
On a different note: don't you miss the days on the Freevale forums? Stuff is really dead now, on lots of other forums too.

I miss active forums, yes. I tend to post a lot and it kind of sucks when I see that the last post was written by myself over a week ago. It's like I'm talking to myself. What I don't miss is constantly debating with certain overly sensitive individuals.

Nihimon wrote:

Best Metaphor Ever!

I loved the whole post. Really, really great way to explain it :)

Write what you know. :D

Goblin Squad Member

Ravenlute wrote:
Tyncale wrote:
On a different note: don't you miss the days on the Freevale forums? Stuff is really dead now, on lots of other forums too.
I miss active forums, yes. I tend to post a lot and it kind of sucks when I see that the last post was written by myself over a week ago. It's like I'm talking to myself.[/QUOTE

This is how I've been feeling. Bringslite and I are about 75% of the traffic on OV.

And the loss of the general chat channel just made it worse, because now the game feels that way, too. At least before I knew other people were logging in, if nothing else. Now it's tumbleweedsville.

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Ravenlute wrote:
Tyncale wrote:
On a different note: don't you miss the days on the Freevale forums? Stuff is really dead now, on lots of other forums too.
I miss active forums, yes. I tend to post a lot and it kind of sucks when I see that the last post was written by myself over a week ago. It's like I'm talking to myself.[/QUOTE

This is how I've been feeling. Bringslite and I are about 75% of the traffic on OV.

And the loss of the general chat channel just made it worse, because now the game feels that way, too. At least before I knew other people were logging in, if nothing else. Now it's tumbleweedsville.

I haven't been back on my settlement forums in weeks. I always felt like I was harassing people to get involved that had other things they preferred to be doing.

As far as general goes, it was kinda fun when you could roleplay a river pirate and get all sorts of randoms popping in with "Arrrr matey" but I understand the reason for it going. We definitely do not want a server wide equivalent of Jita Chat evolving.

Goblin Squad Member

The other annoying way of dying is after a crash. You log back in and can hear the battle starting when the screen is still saying "loading terrain..." and find youself at a shrine when you eventually get in. You should at least get a grace period to be actually in the game before you die, maybe until your first key press.

Goblin Squad Member

Now I have begun desyncing again. right after I re applied for settlement connection.

The only odd thing is that I noted a message "You have been given an item" in the chat. I looked through the inventory but couldn't see any thing that appeared new. Then Mobs stopped showing up while I was moving and those already present on the mini map didn't fall of it but instead stayed on the rim when I moved away.

Changed hex and now cycling through all suggested measures to to stop the desyncing.

This is on the high spec computer with performance of 5 Mbit/s ...

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