Archetype Concept: Berserker (Brawlbarian)


Homebrew and House Rules


I'm surprised that paizo has no archetype for this, but I once read somewhere that what the Germanic tribes called "Berserkers" had a similar equivalent in the old Celt empire, where the largest Celts would sometimes not only fight naked but unarmed.

This gave me the idea for the Brawlbarian, where we could trade Martial Flexibility for Rage and Rage Powers, as well as possibly increasing hit dice to d12 but then making it so the character only rages when not wearing armor.

Pretty simple idea so not worth making a formal archetype on it myself, lazy and all but any of you are obviously welcome to, but curious as to what everyone thinks. I'm still fairly new and am not sure if this is too broken or too soft or if it's just meaningless.

Is Brawlbarian a good archetype concept?


I was surprised it didn't show up in the ACG, to be honest. I think it's a fine concept for an archetype. An angry guy who fights with his bare hands is pretty archetypical.

I'd probably trade out martial flexibility as well, as well as most of the "smart combatant" stuff that the brawler gets, in exchange for a slowed-down rage progression and access to some of the rage powers.


intrigued, will put some thought into this.


This sounds like a multiclass archetype, imagine this will be in the works. Tht being said if you would like, you can make a request on the thread and we can help flesh it out.


I would add features to the barbarian instead.


Ciaran Barnes wrote:
I would add features to the barbarian instead.

I came to the same conclusion.

so here is an extremely rough draft: The Arvernian

For now i pretty much just slapped some brawler abilities onto a barbarian. This could be broken as all get out, but it lays the ground work.


You could take the Savge Barbarian archtype with uses natural armor instead of armor and greater brawler rage power which increases your damge to 1D6 with improved unarmed strikes. This is a cool concept.


CHEEPENBULKY wrote:
Ciaran Barnes wrote:
I would add features to the barbarian instead.

I came to the same conclusion.

so here is an extremely rough draft: The Arvernian

For now i pretty much just slapped some brawler abilities onto a barbarian. This could be broken as all get out, but it lays the ground work.

I like the ground work but we don't seem to take any penalty in order to gain Avernian Strike or Av Cunning. Maybe remove fast movement or something?


christos gurd wrote:
This sounds like a multiclass archetype, imagine this will be in the works. Tht being said if you would like, you can make a request on the thread and we can help flesh it out.

Would love for some help with that!

As I said, it's not that I could not draw up an archetype myself, I even used to homebrew (mostly) balanced classes back in 3.5, but I'm new to PFRPG and so I don't want to try and build something and overlook an ability or rule that might make the class too broken.

If anyone else wants a go at it, I would love to see!


Trumoi wrote:
CHEEPENBULKY wrote:
Ciaran Barnes wrote:
I would add features to the barbarian instead.

I came to the same conclusion.

so here is an extremely rough draft: The Arvernian

For now i pretty much just slapped some brawler abilities onto a barbarian. This could be broken as all get out, but it lays the ground work.

I like the ground work but we don't seem to take any penalty in order to gain Avernian Strike or Av Cunning. Maybe remove fast movement or something?

av cunning i gave for free, as a gimme for the loss of armor proficiency. as for the strike, i have no clue what to give up to get it... but it is definitely a must.


Trumoi wrote:
I'm surprised that paizo has no archetype for this, but I once read somewhere that what the Germanic tribes called "Berserkers"...

Where did you read that?

And isent the brutal pugilist somthing of a unarmed barbarian?
I think Martial flex, wile good, is nothing compared to rage and rage powers and my brawler would Exchange all the flex for normal rage and 2 rage powers( one at 6 and one at 12 pehaps) in a heart beat.


CHEEPENBULKY wrote:
Trumoi wrote:
CHEEPENBULKY wrote:
Ciaran Barnes wrote:
I would add features to the barbarian instead.

I came to the same conclusion.

so here is an extremely rough draft: The Arvernian

For now i pretty much just slapped some brawler abilities onto a barbarian. This could be broken as all get out, but it lays the ground work.

I like the ground work but we don't seem to take any penalty in order to gain Avernian Strike or Av Cunning. Maybe remove fast movement or something?
av cunning i gave for free, as a gimme for the loss of armor proficiency. as for the strike, i have no clue what to give up to get it... but it is definitely a must.

I didn't not notice the armor proficiency, my bad.

As for giving something up for Brawler's strike, you're right, it's tough because there are no spells or other over-arching abilities the Barbarian has that are constant level-to-level. Although the main reason I brought it up as a Brawler archetype was I thought it would be easier to work in and keep balanced.

You and Ciaran Barnes both said you'd prefer making it Barbarian instead, but I was not clear on why that was easier. Could you explain?


Cap. Darling wrote:
Trumoi wrote:
I'm surprised that paizo has no archetype for this, but I once read somewhere that what the Germanic tribes called "Berserkers"...

Where did you read that?

And isent the brutal pugilist somthing of a unarmed barbarian?
I think Martial flex, wile good, is nothing compared to rage and rage powers and my brawler would Exchange all the flex for normal rage and 2 rage powers( one at 6 and one at 12 pehaps) in a heart beat.

Brutal Pugilist does not have scaling unarmed strike, which is the main thing I want. I picture the character being an Ulfen/Celt/Viking punching straight through helmet, skull and brain while laugh hysterically. I want high, high unarmed damage and the ability to overcome DR with it.

I have yet to try a barbarian as it's not my particular flavour, so I can't comment on the difference in strength between it and flex. But I have used flex to an incredible extent on my brawler so far by taking a bunch of base feats like combat expertise and deflect arrows and it has made him extremely adaptable to each encounter.

That being said, you're probably right. Maybe give away his bonus feats for rage powers as well? Flex and feats sounds like a fair trade for Rage and its powers, right?

EDIT: oh and I have no idea where I read it, was when I was like fourteen so maybe I'm remembering wrong or I just read it from a bad source. Though the idea of a raging brawler has been around before, for a long time in fiction at least. Though brutal pugilist has a lot of merit too considering Vikings and many other socieities had their own wrestling styles (like 'Glima' for the VIkings).


Trumoi wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:
Trumoi wrote:
I'm surprised that paizo has no archetype for this, but I once read somewhere that what the Germanic tribes called "Berserkers"...

Where did you read that?

And isent the brutal pugilist somthing of a unarmed barbarian?
I think Martial flex, wile good, is nothing compared to rage and rage powers and my brawler would Exchange all the flex for normal rage and 2 rage powers( one at 6 and one at 12 pehaps) in a heart beat.

Brutal Pugilist does not have scaling unarmed strike, which is the main thing I want. I picture the character being an Ulfen/Celt/Viking punching straight through helmet, skull and brain while laugh hysterically. I want high, high unarmed damage and the ability to overcome DR with it.

I have yet to try a barbarian as it's not my particular flavour, so I can't comment on the difference in strength between it and flex. But I have used flex to an incredible extent on my brawler so far by taking a bunch of base feats like combat expertise and deflect arrows and it has made him extremely adaptable to each encounter.

That being said, you're probably right. Maybe give away his bonus feats for rage powers as well? Flex and feats sounds like a fair trade for Rage and its powers, right?

EDIT: oh and I have no idea where I read it, was when I was like fourteen so maybe I'm remembering wrong or I just read it from a bad source. Though the idea of a raging brawler has been around before, for a long time in fiction at least. Though brutal pugilist has a lot of merit too considering Vikings and many other socieities had their own wrestling styles (like 'Glima' for the VIkings).

I the brutal pugilist have some sort or scaling damage since his str is increasing with the better rage types and he can power attack more safety compared to the normal brawler.

The berserkers( there are Many legende about berserkers usually they are sort of elite warriors that can go berserk they are more or less the base line barbarian. Some times they are naked, sometimes they are dresses in fur of animals like Bear and wulf and sometimes they are just the elite figthers. But often they are mentalt unstable and dangerous even to there friends)
Edit: but if you look at rage and rage powers and what the barbarian gets besides that i think it is clear that the brawler must give more or less all his class features to get rage and rage powers.


Cap. Darling wrote:
Trumoi wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:
Trumoi wrote:
I'm surprised that paizo has no archetype for this, but I once read somewhere that what the Germanic tribes called "Berserkers"...

Where did you read that?

And isent the brutal pugilist somthing of a unarmed barbarian?
I think Martial flex, wile good, is nothing compared to rage and rage powers and my brawler would Exchange all the flex for normal rage and 2 rage powers( one at 6 and one at 12 pehaps) in a heart beat.

Brutal Pugilist does not have scaling unarmed strike, which is the main thing I want. I picture the character being an Ulfen/Celt/Viking punching straight through helmet, skull and brain while laugh hysterically. I want high, high unarmed damage and the ability to overcome DR with it.

I have yet to try a barbarian as it's not my particular flavour, so I can't comment on the difference in strength between it and flex. But I have used flex to an incredible extent on my brawler so far by taking a bunch of base feats like combat expertise and deflect arrows and it has made him extremely adaptable to each encounter.

That being said, you're probably right. Maybe give away his bonus feats for rage powers as well? Flex and feats sounds like a fair trade for Rage and its powers, right?

EDIT: oh and I have no idea where I read it, was when I was like fourteen so maybe I'm remembering wrong or I just read it from a bad source. Though the idea of a raging brawler has been around before, for a long time in fiction at least. Though brutal pugilist has a lot of merit too considering Vikings and many other socieities had their own wrestling styles (like 'Glima' for the VIkings).

I the brutal pugilist have some sort or scaling damage since his str is increasing with the better rage types and he can power attack more safety compared to the normal brawler.

The berserkers( there are Many legende about berserkers usually they are sort of elite warriors that can go berserk they are more or less the base line...

Oh I was not talking about Germanic Berserkers, which is where the name comes from, I was using them to say there was an equivalent in the Iron Age when the Celts had clans everywhere from Scotland to Turkey to Spain. The Celts already fought naked, screaming and flailing about while keeping heads as trophies, but when I was younger I remembering hearing about that the largest of the Celts would fight with just their fists to further-prove their bravery. It was from the Celts, not the Berserkers, that I thought of the Brawlbarian. I just nicknamed it Berserker because the Celts had no name for their unarmed psychos.

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