Unkown Isle [Online,Invitation]

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Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Exploring the Unknown Isle

Skype and Maptools campaign Wednesday Nights 7:30-11 pm EST by invitation

Level 5, 15 point buy, 10,500 gp of equipment (nothing costing more than 5.5 K), Open classes and races. 2 Traits plus one Role (see below.)

Campaign Notes
The Unknown Isle is a large Island far to the west of the Kingdom of Gardune which has consumed any expeditions performing more than a cursory exploration. King Rafael Uriel III has long sought champions capable of surmounting the challenge presented by the Isle. Could you be those champions?
King Uriel has provided a new type of vessel, powered by conjured water elementals as well as conventional methods, and given you a charter and the best map available of the Isle's outline. Your job is to explore the Isle and find its treasures, mapping it out as best you can as you go. You're given free reign to deal with any native creatures or peoples as you see fit. All the King has asked in return for this privilege is a modest tax of 5% of the value of everything you find and copies of your maps.

The campaign will be working on a very slow track for leveling; I expect to level every few months at the most. That being said, I am willing to consider letting every other level be a gestalt level (including levels 2 and 4). This will complicate things a bit, but will allow for more options for each character. Let me know what you think.


Each character may select one Role from the following, gaining the listed benefit. It is ok if more than 1 person chooses the same Role, but we need at least one player with Craft (Cartography) in the party.

Diplomat The face of the group, well equipped to deal with native populations. Gains one free rank of Diplomacy and Linguistics per level and these are always class skills.
Guard Every exploratory group needs its grunts. Gain one bonus hit point per level and +1 bonus to Will saves against charms and compulsions per two levels.
Guide Someone's gotta tell the difference between where you're going and where you've been. Gain one free rank of Craft (cartography), Knowledge (geography), and Knowledge (Nature) per level and these are always class skills.
Pilot Master of the vessel provided by the King, and the elementals conjured by it. Gains one free rank in Knowledge (arcana) and Profession (sailor) per level and these are always class skills. Gains Aquan as a free bonus language.
Sage Need to know something? Ask. Gains three ranks per level that may be put in any Knowledge skills and all Knowledge skills are always class skills.
Scout Great at reconnaissance. Gains one free rank in Perception and Stealth per level and these are always class skills.

TYPO ALERT!!!: 15 point buy? You meant 51 point buy, didn't you? ;)

(15 is just asking for another TPK)

I'm interested in playing. Thinking I might do an Alchemist, with the Trap Breaker archetype, so I can be the party's trap guy if we don't have anyone better suited for that.

Probably do the Sage role. Knowledge skills are always handy for a character with high Int.

Any other rules for character generation? Like how last time you didn't want any ability scores below 10 before racial mods? Just want to know because if the point buy is 15, I might consider playing middle aged or something if allowed.

Don't know about what gestalt class I'd want. Maybe Investigator? That looks interesting.

Oh, are you familiar with the Spontaneous Alchemy rules from the Alchemy Handbook? They are in a sidebar on the Alchemist page of the SRD if not. Are those allowed? If so, I may leave aside a good chunk of my money for reagents. It would be cool to do things like mix a couple of vials in combat and produce a tanglefoot bag, or be able to produce antitoxin on the fly if someone got poisoned.

Awesome! I'm going to be a Hunter Rogue so if you want to do other cool Alchemist things you are free to do so! =) As for role, I don't know yet. We'll see what my stats let me be best at but I'll probably end up being the Scout.

Well, unless I'm just bad at using Hero Lab, seems like there's some funky stuff with only having some levels be gestalt (the BAB namely gets pretty weird, not sure what other issues might be up)..

Right now, anyway, I'm looking at doing a Bloodrager (with MAYBE Skald, still deciding on gestalt stuff)

Probably going to go as Guard, but in a pinch I could easily tweak the character to fill the Guide or even Pilot role if need be.

Pathfinder isn't really balanced for gestalt (not that PF itself is balanced, but gestalt tends to add fuel to the fire). Gestalt may amplify balance issues because some gestalt combinations are vastly more potent than others. I know we have a group of good players here, none of whom would intentionally break the game. But it's human nature to be attracted to strong combinations, not realizing until perhaps too late just how impressive they really are -- when some other players start to feel like sidekicks or bystanders. Alternatively the GM may feel pressured to ramp up the challenges to suit the uber PC(s); and this kind of arms race can often leave the non-uber PCs feeling like cannon fodder.

Gestalt, mythic, 3pp classes, and other material of questionable balance can work well in some groups, especially when the GM is willing to step in before the campaign starts to boost any lackluster PCs to narrow their gap with the uber PCs. But understandably, few GMs have the time and interest to do that. Thus some players may wind up feeling like their characters have no strong role in the party, such as when some other PC does everything they can do, only better.

The idea of "roles" is interesting, and clearly required in some fashion due to the nature of the story. But I wonder if having the roles give mechanical advantages adds more balance issues. For example, the sage role coupled with a high-Int character would probably make such a character the best at every knowledge skill, on top of all the other things they're good at. This carves out a large portion of the game's challenges for that person, which discourages other PCs from taking knowledge ranks and may make them feel less useful in the group overall.

In short, by adding more mechanical incentives and options to a system that's already very crunchy, players are often pulled away from bringing their character concept to life, instead seduced by synergy and mechanical advantage. The motivations behind this are fear and ambition: fear that they'll fall behind the others or become a bystander; and ambition to make the most effective character they can, with the strongest chance to survive.

Is this really what we want a tabletop RPG to be about?

Kodi, I feel like you are over reacting to it. I see it as something new and different. If we mess it up, we mess it up. I would rather be good at one thing, more than anyone else in the party, than compete with them in that role. That splits the party up more then not sharing skills and talents. I have my job and you have yours and we combine our talents into being a great team.

As for gestalt I don't see this being anywhere near as challenging and horrible as Mythic. Especially since its going to be every 2 levels and not full on. Its like a little extra on the side from what it sounds like. I don't see it as a big deal.

Sometimes, its okay to have one person in the group that is the strongest party member. As long as that person isn't an ass about it and lets other people voice themselves in the Role-Play; There shouldn't be a problem whatsoever.

The only thing I might see as an issue is our party's teamwork in the last few games. From what this adventure looks like, it will take a lot of team work to make sure we survive and do our job right. If we are all bickering about who should do what we wont make it anywhere. I feel the roles are necessary and that everyone should have their own thing to be good at.

I've decided I would like to go for Pilot (if someone else wants to take it I can rework my character fairly easily)

Gwen and I are still planning on going for Ratfolk twins. Despite being small we're going to be going for mostly melee classes. Maybe we're crazy! ;)

Anyway, my character so far is a lovely little lady named Blue. She's a rager. Fights with a two handed weapon and her tail+teeth on the side, absolutely vicious. Her eyesight is weak, but she makes up for it with a sharp sense of smell. Unlike her sister, who is a wizz with animals, her strange supernatural taint makes most animals fear her. She's quick to fight with both her sister and wild animals, though most of the time she'll put up with her long enough to help towards a common goal.

(this could change if someone else wants pilot!)
As a small'in she came in contact with a Nixie, and the water fey had a profound influence on her. Most notably is her ability to speak Aquan and commune with water spirits and elementals. Being fey-touched, her rage often exposes her innate wild magic in strange ways. She doesn't often spell cast, but her wounds heal faster than normal when she's angry, and sometimes she seems to grow in size when raging, making her stronger than the average ratfolk.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Regarding Stats: I'm willing to forgo point buy and do an array instead, with the caveat being that the array is 16,15, before racial adjustments. (this is a 28 point array) The reason I start with a 15 point buy is that is what the game is balanced against (for instance, heroic npcs are statted with an array that is the equivalent of a 15 point buy.)

Part of the balance issue I've frequently encountered as a GM is the mad vs sad character conflict inherent in a point buy system. SAD characters will optimize their one stat in every conceivable way, because stats rule so many aspects of the game. This creates glass cannon or rock/paper/scissors characters more often than not. Meanwhile, unless you pump up the point buy, MAD characters tend to find their usefulness extremely hindered. This is why I prefer arrays. And to avoid giving anyone an 18 in any stat before racial adjustments (the game goes out of balance pretty quickly when stats climb too high.)

I'll look into the spontaneous alchemy thing, Dan.

The gestalt will add a layer of complexity, yes. My goal in including it is to broaden everyone's capabilities, not to focus them. I would ask that people keep that goal in mind if we decide to do the gestalt. In other words, don't say "this will make me better at this thing I'm already great at!", but rather "Hey, this'll let me do Y and Z on top of Q and X." and you're headed in the right direction.

My goal with the roles is actually similar, in that I hope it will give people the ability to build a character who can participate in a specific role in the campaign without having to focus his/her entire character around that role, especially when playing a class that has 2 skill points per level. My hope is that people will use the added flexibility to customize their characters' skills towards their concept, rather than having to focus on one of the role as a concept.

Obviously, I didn't put a lot of these thoughts to "paper" when putting up the original post, but it was a pretty late day for me.

Both Gwen and Kodi make good points above, and everything is still up for discussion. This campaign is homebrew and has some margin for tweaking.

Since we've played together for awhile, I feel safe in asking that you keep the following goals in mind when working on your characters:
1) A group of like-minded explorers who have worked well as a team before,
2) Experienced agents of the King who have a wide range of solutions available to a variety of threats and challenges;


A) I would like to provide more in-game time for character-to-character role-play as well as providing the occasional npcs who can be motivated to become friendly. So, please have more than mechanics in mind while making up your characters. Develop a personality, desires, reason for conflict and cooperation. I'm purposely structuring the campaign to not be a time-is-of-the-essence type rush rush game. I'm also trying to remove political/lawyer-esque aspects of the game I feel some have found unappetizing. So while their will be social encounters, they will more likely be with less "civilized" populouses.

B) A large part of the reason for the slower level progression is to allow me to adapt the encounters to be properly challenging (and not over/underwhelming)- sometimes I feel like just when we have a handle on what your characters are capable of (or even, sadly, before then), they level and a whole new set of abilities pop up. Look for less single-monster-in-a-room type encounters.

C) Please do let me know about concerns you have regarding any of this stuff, or issues with past games. We've been playing together for quite a while now and I like everyone here. I'm not going to be upset at constructive feedback. I'd like it if we can go into this campaign with similar expectations and everyone can get enjoyment out of it. I'm looking to hone my GMing skills to make the game more fun for everyone.

I don't have any issues with the games we've been playing, play style wise. I will be honest that I have a few worries. This is a highly Role-Play dominate game. So please keep that in mind and pay attention. Its hard to get anywhere when people don't pay attention and we have to repeat everything over again or you get us into pointless fights. I don't want to sound like the meanie but I felt like it was necessary to point this out early. Also, there will be plenty of time to get everyone's voices in so please be patient. Wait your turn and let everyone have a say. It'll get frustrating real quick if only one person is doing all the talking outside of be the diplomat.

Now that all the serious talk is over, My character is Chrysanthemum "Chrissy" Ratfolk. Older sister to Blue.

Chrissy is a Hunter with a little bit of a Roguish edge in her ability to get in and out of fights swiftly and silently. Being a humanoid Rat made her feel uncomfortable with the thought of having an animal following her around under her command; bonded to her being. Instead she went down the vermin path. Most people, Like her sister, think ill of her talents with giant Vermin. Then again her sister hates animals in general it seemed.

She has a Giant MANTIS as her companion. A pretty pink and white Mantis that looks like a big ole Orchid when standing still. Hence, he was named Orchid! As artistic as Chrissy would like herself to believe, following under the teachings of Shelyn, picking names was not her strong point. Maybe it runs in the family.

Even though she is a proud follower of the goddess Shelyn, Chrissy doesn't voice it at all. She believes in the calm, silent beauty of the world. The inner beauty of people, the one not always voiced out or noticed.

Growing up as a giant rat was hard. Most people would treat her as such; A Vermin. She grew a sense of belonging with insects for they were called Vermin too. Chrissy found them as interesting beings with the cool ability to adapt and evolve. They weren't gross, they were fascinating. Too bad she couldn't have a giant Butterfly.

As she got older and found Shelyn, she realized that her true beauty was from the inside and not the outside.

She has a secret love for cute and pretty things. Not shiny things. Pretty and colorful things. This secret isn't a well kept secret from those who know her. She doesn't talk about it but the tinkle in her eye when she spots something colorful is enough.

Growing up with her loud and very...outgoing sister with a huge opinion, helped Chrissy become patient. She isn't one quick to anger, as much as Blue tries. As much as they argue and bicker they've never been hateful towards one another. A strong bond only siblings can share. Perhaps the only other thing that matters more to her is Orchid.

Chrysanthemum had been working under the king for the past 3 years, teaching his soldiers how to survive out in the wilds of the world. Which plants were poisonous, which were edible. How to track and trap animals. Making sure they knew how to find their way back and not get lost. She made it her personal mission to make sure they knew the land they were guarding. Not one flaw in her teaching. Written several maps of the King's land, she could never get lost.

Before working herself up to such a high position, Chrissy worked for the common people. Being a nature guide for the people of his kingdom. Perhaps this is why he had chosen her to become your guide for this mission.

Chrissy is not just a nature guide or just a teacher. A lover of Dance, Music and Art. No, no, She is quiet good with a Longsword with a few magic trick. Plus one Big Ole Bug. Proving herself in more then just one mission for the king. Probably meeting a few of her companions for this new mission in some of her old.

Nice character concepts and stories from Jen and Gwen. Thanks for sharing them.

Great post, Stratton. Given those clarifications and additional details, I'm more comfortable with the setup now.

I'm now neutral about gestalt. If it winds up being used, it may need some clarification such as how BAB and saves are calculated, and whether characters are limited to a single class for all of their gestalt levels.

Given the choice between the specified ability array and the 15-point buy, I'd prefer the array. For one thing, it's more potent. For another, I often lean toward MAD vs. SAD.

As for a character concept, I'm leaning toward a good-aligned, young wyvern cleric of Apsu. The race is obviously unusual; but I have an existing design for it that puts it mechanically on par with the core races. For example, his size would be only medium (due to being young) and he wouldn't be able to fly until level 20 (for a reason in his backstory). His two natural weapons would be bite and tail (no wing attacks or poison due to being young).

He'd have Selective Channeling and would also be a melee-oriented cleric (since being limited to casting and healing tends to get tedious for me).

Also, feral characters inspire me. So if a young wyvern is unsuitable for any reason, I could probably come up with an awakened leopard, wolf, or some other bestial race that is mechanically on par with the core races.

The most suitable roles for him would be diplomat, guard, or guide. (But I suppose drawing maps as a guide might be a challenge if one has only wing fingers or claws to do it with.)

Open question: How are hit points calculated after level 1? Would we be using hero points? (I'm neutral on the subject.)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Hit Points are die-2 after level one (d6=4, d8=6, d10=8, d12=10)

As to Hero Points, I'm considering adapting "Victory Points" (and correspondingly, Complications) from the d20hero srd for Mutants and Masterminds, a more story-driven and -driving version of Hero Points. It would need some adaptation to work with both online play and Pathfinder in general. Since Victory Points are handed out more frequently, they would also correspondingly need to be less powerful than full Hero Points. With leveling happening more slowly, traditional Hero Points would be really slow to gain and correspondingly more likely to be completely forgotten anyway. I'll post something of what I'm thinking sometime soon, and people can let me know whether it's something they'd enjoy.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

If you've got a link to the young wyvern race you're using, please share. Otherwise, maybe you could post the mechanical details (stat adjustments, racial abilities, etc.) Outside the box characters will work ok, although the intelligent natives will probably have interesting initial reactions to nonstandard races....

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Possible picture for Gwen's Character

Or a much softer touch

In the tall grass


Bloody Ratfolk

Black, White, and Bloody

Wow, great ratfolk pictures!

Reckless wrote:
Hit Points are die-2 after level one (d6=4, d8=6, d10=8, d12=10)

That method disproportionately favors d10 and d12 classes and penalizes d6 classes. It seems more equitable to use the PFS method of half+1 (d6=4, d8=5, d10=6, d12=7).

Victory Points look interesting. I'm probably still neutral about them because giving players more options for their turns makes it even harder to decide what to do. However, the story and flavor benefits could make up for that.

Young Wyvern is a homebrew race with the specifications below:

  • Ability Scores: Young wyverns are strong and wise, but not too bright. They gain +2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, and –2 Intelligence.
  • Type: Wyverns are dragons, but not true dragons. In terms of intellect and psychology, they're often a bit like dragonkind's version of special-needs children.
  • Size: Young wyverns are medium creatures.
  • Weapons and Shields: Being quadrupeds, young wyverns may wield a buckler or one-handed weapon in the wing-fingers of only one wing at a time (assuming they gain proficiency somehow). Weapons that require two hands are not feasible.
  • Speed (Slow): Young wyverns have a base speed of 20 ft.
  • Flying: Due to being raised in captivity, this young wyvern wouldn't be able to fly until level 20. But he can glide like a tengu. Specifically, if he's able to make a DC 15 Fly check, he falls safely from any height as if using feather fall. When falling safely, he may make an additional DC 15 Fly check to glide, moving 5 feet laterally for every 20 feet he falls.
  • Languages: Young wyverns begin play speaking Draconic. (He'd speak Common via Linguistics.)
  • Darkvision: Wyverns can see perfectly in the dark up to 60 feet.
  • Scent Ability: None. It never developed properly because he was raised in captivity.
  • Wyvern Immunities: Wyverns are immune to paralysis and magic sleep.
  • Natural Armor: +1 natural armor bonus.
  • Natural Weapons: Bite 1d8. Tail spike 1d4 with no poison. (For comparison, a tengu who gives up swordtrained can have three primary natural weapons, albeit only 1d3 each.)
  • Hit points, saving throws, BAB, skill ranks, and other things would be treated as if he's a core race.

    Reckless wrote:
    ...intelligent natives will probably have interesting initial reactions to nonstandard races....

    Ah, that's part of the novelty and mystique of being a talking beast!

    Here's a candidate picture for this character. I also have a backstory in mind that details how he came to be raised in captivity, eventually being liberated, then turning away from a thirst for revenge with some help from his god Apsu.

  • Okay, got a concept going. I took what you said about the Gestalt broadening capabilities instead of focusing them to heart and decided against Investigator as my other class. Instead, I'm going to go in the complete opposite direction as an intellectual brainiac: a Barbarian!

    This is Templeton. Kinda looks like hell, doesn't he? Well, Templeton has a monkey on his back, and it's not a familiar or animal companion. When he first met the party he was serving jail time for using some of his his alchemical concoctions for "recreational" purposes; he seemed determined to spend as much of his day in an altered state of consciousness as possible.

    It's not his fault; doing so keeps the "Other" at bay. Like most alchemists, Templeton had perfected a mutagen for personal use that increased his strength, improved his athleticism, and prevented him from getting sand kicked in his face at the beach. Alas, these formulas always have side effects, and he sought to mitigate them so he could be in peak physical and mental condition simultaneously. As part of this experiment, he injected himself with the blood of a captured devil.

    It didn't work as intended. Now whenever he takes his mutagen he tends to black out, and another far more sinister persona comes to the fore. This is the Other, who seethes with such infernal rage that he has been known to literally burst into flame when fighting, and throws himself into combat with reckless abandon. Templeton would love nothing more than to never become such a beast again, but alas he has become addicted to the adrenaline rush the transformation provides. His use of other narcotics is simply a means to distract himself from this.

    Templeton bargained his way out of prison by offering his services as a seeker and disarmer of traps, and 90% of the time behaves as a quiet if somewhat spaced-out academic. He prefers to fight with his bombs and alchemical tools whenever possible, disdaining hand-to-hand combat as it is too tempting to become the Other in such situations; he will do so only in response to severe danger. He is never without at least a couple of doses of Polypurpose Panacea, which he uses to combat such temptations during downtime. It is not unknown for him to carry some "more potent preventatives", but he avoids using them unless he really needs to. Usually.

    Human Alchemist 5, gestalt Barbarian 2.
    Role: Sage
    Archetype: Trap Breaker
    Discoveries: Precise Bombs, Infusion
    Rage Powers: Infernal Blood, Lesser

    Hey, Pokeapache. If you are still having trouble with Hero Lab, try this: do Gestalt at every level, but on odd levels choose Commoner. Since commoners are the worst at everything, it will be as if those are empty levels.

    Only exception I can think of is that they have some Class Skills you may have to ignore.

    HAHA The much softer touch is actually the one I had picked out already. niiiice.


    overlord_laharl wrote:

    Hey, Pokeapache. If you are still having trouble with Hero Lab, try this: do Gestalt at every level, but on odd levels choose Commoner. Since commoners are the worst at everything, it will be as if those are empty levels.

    Only exception I can think of is that they have some Class Skills you may have to ignore.

    Really nice. :D Thanks a bunch, I was doing weird Bab/skill/save editing but that works muuuuch better.

    So let's say you're a level-1 cleric. Upon rising to level 2, you continue as a cleric but also add a gestalt level of ranger. For that level you'd gain the ranger's six skill ranks instead of the cleric's two. You'd also gain all of the class features of a level-2 cleric and a level-1 ranger.

    But your BAB wouldn't be helped because both cleric and ranger advance by one that level? So your BAB would still be only 1?

    Your saves at level 2, now having two levels of cleric and one level of ranger, might be the below:

    Fort 4 = 2(cleric one) + 0(cleric two) + 2(ranger one)
    Reflex 2 = 0(cleric one) + 0(cleric two) + 2(ranger one)
    Will 3 = 2(cleric one) + 1(cleric two) + 0(ranger one)

    Or maybe Fort and Reflex should be worse than shown above if you're gaining a level-two ranger's save-progression instead of a level-one ranger's.

    And this raises a question from before: If we use gestalt, would all of a character's gestalt levels have to be taken in the same class?

    The Exchange

    ok this sounds fun I will work up a wizard diplomat

    I seem to remember PhillyG was leaning toward a wizard. Not a problem to have two wizards, of course.

    Also, since wizards aren't usually big on Charisma, perhaps Guide would be better than Diplomat. However, Gwen's hunter Chrissy wishes to be the Guide.

    If you play something other than a wizard, Guard or Scout become stronger possibilities.

    Concerning Scout, it seems a bit strange or awkward to have the group's scout not be the same person as its trap-finder. Dan's character Templeton, as currently conceived, is very good with defeating traps. So perhaps the scout role could be left vacant unless another person winds up being good at traps.

    Overall, I don't think the intent of the Roles concept is to force players into roles they wouldn't enjoy or that don't fit their character concept. If that is true, some characters could have two roles (though still only one mechanically) and others could share a role, such as diplomat.

    Sage seems like the strongest role mechanically because it gives three skill ranks per level, the most flexibility in how to spend them, and the most class skills. I suspect this is intentional because Reckless' style leans toward using knowledge checks as simply a means to funnel information into the party as a whole, not so much as an RP opportunity for the person making the checks.

    I've seen other GMing styles where knowledge checks are used as RP opportunities, usually by whispering the check result to the player making it. Then it becomes up to that player how and when to present the information to the rest of the group. The downside of this is that it can eat up a lot of session time, often spent in silence or OOC chatter, while the GM composes a whisper to that player. Then the player spends time digesting the info and figuring out how to RP it back into the group.

    Thus the whisper method is especially suited to text-only groups because the other players can go right on typing and RPing, having less concern of derailing the subject at hand.

    For my own style, I usually compromise by whispering any important or sensitive knowledge check results directly to the players who achieve the DC. Where possible, I have the text ready in advance to paste in, which minimizes the disruption. But less important or interesting check results are just revealed publicly.

    I think the point of the roles was to let the classes not hamper the characters+roles. A wizard wants to be a diplomat? Why not :D Besides, I think people can share roles just fine, we don't need all of them necessarily. It's just a bonus to help make our characters my diverse! It would probably be just as helpful to have multiple guides, scouts, diplomats, etc all the same. Both Gwen's and Dan's characters can both notice magical traps and help each other disarm, which I think is pretty cool. (Templeton is probably going to be better at trapfinding+disarming in general, I think, so he can definitely take the lead there.) And if Gwen goes with Guide and Dan with sage, I think they can still be a great trap finding duo together. Especially since the roles don't give "bonuses" just free skill ranks.

    In all honesty, I think overlapping a little bit here and there can be good. I'm glad we already have a fair amount of physical strength as well as magical, with the help of gestalt. With how the party is shaping up, it feels like near everyone will be able to hold their own in combat even if things get rough which is great.

    With the spread stats, I think a Wizard could be a great diplomat (have a good charisma and int!) while being able to remain relatively non-squishy (okay con and dex).

    I definitely agree that people can share roles if they like. People should pick what role they think fits best with their character's personality and story, rather than what their class would be good at. There's a reason the skills give class skill proficiency and ranks. In general I hope that this campaign has a good focus on skills just as much as combat. And I'm saying that as a very combat focused character. Hehe.

    Also, I did a quick drawing for Blue, along with a token. http://i.imgur.com/WzqcyJg.png & http://imgur.com/DKPPqsA
    I can't wait to see what the others come up with.

    I love Templeton, I can totally see Blue trying to help him to control his rage issues. (I'm sure her sister will definitely try to convince him to avoid raging, while Blue will try to get him to embrace it. Especially when he DOES THE FIRE THING.)

    I also love the Wyvern, Kodi! It's going to be so awesome to have a big old scary dragon on our team, especially one who's a cleric. I can't wait to see how he interacts with everyone else.

    Also, say what you want about Sage, but Pilot gets to control a water-elemental controlled boat! I think they're all pretty cool. (I feel like Sage can be achieved just as easily by being a bard, anyway.)

    ... That said, I would actually really like for important information to be whispered to different people depending on Knowledge rolls. It would take a bit of extra work, but it would encourage a bit more communication between the party. Even better would be if people could get different bits of knowledge (one person knows x about this thing, another knows y)... But it would slow things down a lot more than even just the first method (just giving out knowledge to anyone who makes the save). I've just always liked the idea behind it, so I'm inclined to agree.

    Maybe we could see a bit of it with some puzzles, or larger challenges that are meant to be more roleplayed out instead of just fought through. Of course, no obligation to actually do this since it would be a lot more complicated and time-consuming. :)

    I'd be perfectly happy with the Scout role instead of Sage, if someone else wants to be Sage, or no one wants Scout. Either is fine with me; as a high int character I have skill ranks to spare, so I was planning on maxing Perception and a couple of Knowledge skills either way.

    Only real difference is whether I get Stealth as a class skill (neither Alchemist or Barbarian has it) or more Knowledge skills (I already get Nature and Arcana).

    Insightful comments. And great job on the artwork for Blue! Bravo!

    I just want people to be creative! Don't feel like you need to fill in a role. Do what you find is fun and we'll work with it. Be open minded.

    Reckless wrote:
    It is ok if more than 1 person chooses the same Role, but we need at least one player with Craft (Cartography) in the party."

    Just noticed the above in the post a the very top. That's a relief.

    Also, you don't have to feel the need to fill out every role. I can easily take the guide role bonuses and still scout ahead without that role's bonuses. I also have a mantis in which I can see through the eyes of. That's a pretty good scout itself. No one has to worry about the Craft Cartography. I got it =) Play what you like. No harm in two scouts for sure and double trap finding makes me feel safer honestly.

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
    Kodi wrote:

    And this raises a question from before: If we use gestalt, would all of a character's gestalt levels have to be taken in the same class?

    Probably to keep from further complicating already complicated characters, yes.

    The Exchange

    ok how do you activate gestalt in herolabs

    Kyndig wrote:
    ok how do you activate gestalt in herolabs

    When you first start up Hero Lab, go to the button in the bottom right corner, "Find Updates"

    Hopefully you'll have "d20pfsd: Gestalt" already in the list, just select it and download it (which is on the left, not the right. i always click the finish button like a tool instead of download)

    If you don't have that on the list, go to "Add Source" and paste in: http://www.shadowsoftware.net/herolab/d20pfsrd/updates.xml You'll have to restart after adding it though, if it doesn't auto-restart.

    After you download it, you can go to Configure Hero and it should be the first checkbox to enable Gestalt. Then you can just add levels of gestalt.

    The Exchange


    ok so far a gillman adopted by a human sailor living and working aboard a ship all his life sorcerer\ swashbuckler combo would fit as either diplomat or pilot working up the rest


    Ooo that sounds pretty epic.

    Presenting Sohatobe, a young wyvern cleric of Apsu.

    APPEARANCE: Sohatobe's menacing draconic visage is softened by a decorative suit of plate barding. Around his scaly neck, a golden brooch in the shape of a dragon's foot fastens a fine charcoal cloak about his shoulders. This young drake, measuring about nine feet from snout to tail-tip, typically prowls along on all fours, using his wing-arms as his front legs. Although this gait is a bit ungainly to behold, it comes quite naturally to him.

    COMPANIONS: The two sisters Chrissy and Blue might know Sohatobe by virtue of the fact that Chrissy is open minded, perhaps seeing past the Soha's monstrous exterior into the bright, budding soul that flourishes within. Thus they may have struck up a friendship a few years back when the group formed and began undertaking missions together.

    Sohatobe might know Templeton via the twin sisters, or perhaps they met at an earlier time. Although Soha shares little in common with Templeton's academic side, he can definitely sympathize with the challenge of keeping the beast within one's soul under control. Indeed, Sohatobe is no stranger to base impulses and savage temptations. Fortunately, a shining spirit also burns in the young drake's heart; and its radiance usually suffices to keep the dark talons of his ancestry at bay.

    ROLES: As a cleric of Apsu, Sohatobe is a strong healer and an alert sentry (having the Guard role). He's a serviceable melee combatant with a respectable defense, as well as a set of jaws that are as impressive as they are scary. He's also an effective protector, shielding his nearby allies with a barrier against dragon's breath, fireballs and other energy attacks.

    This young wyvern has also dabbled in the roguish arts. Thus if Soha is your enemy and you let him come up behind you, you might yourself short a kidney or heart as you become an unwitting participant in his organ donor program. He might also make snack of you afterward.

    Outside of combat, Sohatobe is a gregarious creature. He speaks from the heart, having been a victim himself and thus knowing well the yearning for justice, compassion, and redemption. Thus he can serve as strong diplomat or negotiator. But since he speaks only Draconic and Common, this could be merely his part-time role. In cases where he can't communicate, perhaps the team's best linguist could step forward to either be the diplomat or to translate. Soha can also prepare the Share Languages spell if he knows in advance that the day is likely to involve contact with strangers.

    HISTORY: Abducted as an egg from his ancestral aerie, Sohatobe was raised in captivity for thirty miserable years by a fiendish necromancer named Balkon. Balkon schemed to harvest the young wyvern, when it got old enough, for a rare antivenin. Never knowing the freedom of flight nor given a proper fledging by his real parents, Sohatobe was denied the proud heritage and savage culture of his wild brethren. Fortunately, with the help of a cunning ranger named Krios, the day came when he was liberated from his death sentence. Free at last!

    After getting over his bewilderment at the wonders of the outside world, Sohatobe at first thirsted for vengeance against his former captor. But one night, he was struck by an intense dream wherein he was shown the outcome of his hatred. Looking down upon wave-thrashed rocks, he saw his own shattered carcass -- forlorn and stripped of every useful organ and elixir. His life would be forgotten and meaningless! So soul-stirring was the sight that even while still dreaming, he felt his hunger for Balkon's blood recede like the ocean's tide. He would not die like that! He would not give Balkon the satisfaction! Nor would Balkon ever get the antivenin he coveted!

    Within the dream, Sohatobe wrested his spiteful gaze from Balkon's tower. He felt the hatred bleed out of his soul, much as the lifeblood had poured out of the smashed corpse on the rocks below. He lifted his head yearningly to the sky and the horizon. He would leave the land of his captivity behind. He would lose himself in the farthest reaches of the realm!

    Awakening from his epiphany, Sohatobe discovered with a gasp that his scaly hide and wings, formerly shadowed in the hues of midnight, were streaked with swaths of lustrous brass. His scales gleamed in the radiance of a cresting sun. And like a chrysalis, his body was metamorphosizing -- fueled by the ancient fire of dragons. In his blood awakened the fierce vigor and dormant splendor of his distant ancestors.

    And something else stirred in his soul: the bringer of his dream. The Maker of All. The Exiled Wyrm. Apsu the Waybringer! Having been bereft of meaning and companionship for so long, Sohatobe embraced this compassionate spirit. And over the coming months, he began to manifest divine power in the form of succoring vitality.


    For your amusement, here is his character sheet. Feedback and corrections are welcome.

    If you're bored or if you like this character, there's also a self-indulgent story about his potential future, decades from now: Alden's Inspiration.

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

    if everyone else can post a link to their sheet or send herolab file via skype, that'd be great.

    Here is a sheet for Templeton. I will add extracts and background stuff tomorrow.

    Note that I took the feats Instant Alchemy and Eschew Materials, and left a lot of cash unspent to use as on the fly reagents, as outlined in the Spontaneous Alchemy rules. If you decide we aren't allowing those rules, just let me know and I will change them.

    http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=1050600 - almost finished ;(

    I will probably choose Guard or Scout, unless no one else chooses Pilot. I will take cartographer unless someone else chooses Guide. I make take it anyhow.

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
    PhillyG wrote:

    http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=1050600 - almost finished ;(

    you must not have marked it for sharing or whatever, because it's inaccessible.

    If others are interested in teamwork, then I will take the teamwork feat http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/lookout-combat-teamwork. It is an appropriate feat for a scout, and as a diviner I always act in the surprise round.

    @Reckless: Oops!

    Did you get mine over Skype Reckless? It said it sent I'm just double checking. Also I just got a job so I'll be late to games. I'll be on at 7:30 instead of 6:30. Not a huge deal. Just letting ya'll know.

    The Exchange

    emailed my hero to you reckless

    hey, are you guys still looking for players?

    The Exchange

    so when we looking to start?

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

    I think with the next two Wednesdays being Christmas and New Year's Eves respectively, we should look to start on Wed Jan 7th, 2015.

    I just got the last character sent to me, and I'll work on getting some notes up here on issues/questions on people over the weekend/Monday.

    Michael Qi, no, we're full up. Thanks for your interest, will pm you if anything opens up.

    Merry Christmas everybody

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

    If enough people don't have plans for New Year's Eve, we could start this week instead of next. I know Gwen, Jen, and Cody are on board with that plan; how about the rest of you?

    Phil, it doesn't look like you took your 2 level of Gestalt.

    I might be available. I think I have a couple of family members coming for a visit, but they will probably be gone by game time.

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