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How would this work? I think that a halfling focused on mounted combat could be EXTREMELY effective when mounted on a medium sized barbarian etc. (and hilarious) Though he would take a -4 on ride checks due to it not being a normally easy to ride mount. (and take an exotic saddle) However, there are some rules issues.
1. Normally a mount goes during the rider's turn. Would that still be the case? If not - what of the issues involved.
2. What if the two players disagreed about where to move? (probably a non-issue if the players agreed to this combat style in the first place - but it could come up)
3. Could the halfling actually spur the barbarian to greater speeds by doing a point of damage? (ha)
4. Does anyone see any other potential rules issues?
Overall - with mounted combat it could be extremely effective. The barbarian wouldn't have to worry too much about AC since the halfling could eventually deflect two blows a turn with ride checks & give their shield bonus to the barbarian. And the normal issues with getting a mount into certain areas would be a non-issue. (Make the barbarian a dwarf if the GM wants to make ceiling height an issue.)
And frankly - you can't get a more powerful mount than another character, while the barbarian would get benefits from mounted combat etc. It'd be the only way to make mounted combat viable at higher levels without either an AC of some sort or the GM giving you a freakishly awesome mount (unlikely).
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What two characters do in the privacy of their own bedroom is nobody's business but theirs...
...but I wouldn't mind seeing pictures.
Interesting... I might allow it in my own games, with some provisions. But for a dragoon, might be interesting.
It works very well with a Synthesist Summoner and a Paladin(Shining Knight)(So well I have banned Synthesist Summoner)
For initiative I had the pair use the initiative of the mount (it tended to be higher and the rider was a Cohort NPC), If I allowed it again I would instead go with the lower of the 2 initiatives.
The Mount gets to choose were to move, I did allow the mounted combat feats of the rider to benefit the mount, again I may have rethought this if it came up again. Spirited charge I would allow not so sure about the feats which change how the mount moves
Allowing this combat style is like gently unscrewing the lid of a can of worms packed so tightly that they are under a hundred thousand PSI of pressure.
And it is hilarious.
EDIT: Damn ninjas!
No, this is a RAW discussion, or could be. There is nothing in the rules which says your mount cannot be intelligent, or a humanoid.
They're mostly silent but it's possible to parse together what the rules actually do say on this topic. It's a silly topic but it's relevant - I've had several players want to try it at actual tables.
*heavy sigh* I figured that someone would go there - but I couldn't really think of a better way to phrase it.What two characters do in the privacy of their own bedroom is nobody's business but theirs...
...but I wouldn't mind seeing pictures.
And I was happy to take us there.
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This discussion probably belongs in homebrew as I doubt anyone is suggesting that this is a RAW discussion?
Yes - the purpose was the discuss the RAW rules. I could come up with houserules easily enough - but RAW is a bit shakey.
As I mentioned in the OP - it's totally legal with a penalty (for an unusual shaped mount) and an exotic saddle - it's just that some of the rules are a bit iffy.
Frankly - I think that it'd be hilarious to try in a PFS session - I'm just worried about too much table variation unless someone is able to come up with something solid here to show various GMs.
we want thunderdome!!!
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Is encumbrance an issue anymore than it would be for any other mount?Also, encumbrance is an issue.Theoretically - but I don't think that the 50-70lbs of a fully equipped halfling would mean much to a 16-20 strength character. (probably at least 18 at level 1 unless they're a dwarf, and as a dwarf med/heavy encumbrance don't matter)
Most mounts are quadrupeds and have greater encumbrance limits.
Frankly - I think that it'd be hilarious to try in a PFS session - I'm just worried about too much table variation unless someone is able to come up with something solid here to show various GMs.
Your definition of "hilarious" must be different from mine.
The mounted rules are already weak when used as intended. When you attempt to apply them to a situation like this, you're just asking for long delays while it's all sorted out.
I play PFS only at cons. We're often pressed for time. Every minute spent trying to smooth over rough spots in the rules is time the rest of the table isn't having much fun. Hilarious indeed.
It would seem to me that you can't just pick and choose the aspects of mounted combat that you like.
If the barbarian is the mount, and he doesn't have the combat training trick (which I believe he can only be trained for if he has really really dumped int) then he is frightened of combat. Our halfling now has to make a DC 25 (DC 20, +5 for unsuitable mount) to control the barbarian in battle. This increased by 5 more if he hasn't slapped a saddle on bad boy.
The Barbarian doesn't get to make any choices about where he goes or what he does. He is being controlled by the rider (otherwise the ride check from the mounted combat feat wouldn't be appropriate.) He therefore acts on the halflings turn as the halfling directs it.
It would seem to me that you can't just pick and choose the aspects of mounted combat that you like.
If the barbarian is the mount, and he doesn't have the combat training trick (which I believe he can only be trained for if he has really really dumped int) then he is frightened of combat. Our halfling now has to make a DC 25 (DC 20, +5 for unsuitable mount) to control the barbarian in battle. This increased by 5 more if he hasn't slapped a saddle on bad boy.
The Barbarian doesn't get to make any choices about where he goes or what he does. He is being controlled by the rider (otherwise the ride check from the mounted combat feat wouldn't be appropriate.) He therefore acts on the halflings turn as the halfling directs it.
You make a good point here, and the most cogent one as to it's limits.
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Frankly - I think that it'd be hilarious to try in a PFS session - I'm just worried about too much table variation unless someone is able to come up with something solid here to show various GMs.Your definition of "hilarious" must be different from mine.
The mounted rules are already weak when used as intended. When you attempt to apply them to a situation like this, you're just asking for long delays while it's all sorted out.
Not mechanically hilarious. Just the concept. The rules issues are why I asked for potential clarifacation here.
The rules leave a lot to be desired for such a situation. It is a can of worms. Dave Justus points out some of the issues. I'm sure there are more if we sit and think about it.
Dot for interest.
playing a high str melee vhar with a halfling rogue teammate.
-what would be the point/benefits of carrying a friend into battle? Flanking is out ... are there any cool ways for a dagger specialized rogue to take advantage of a bigger friend?
Wow, that last sentence sounds wrong when I say it out loud ...
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Dot for interest.
playing a high str melee vhar with a halfling rogue teammate.-what would be the point/benefits of carrying a friend into battle? Flanking is out ... are there any cool ways for a dagger specialized rogue to take advantage of a bigger friend?
Wow, that last sentence sounds wrong when I say it out loud ...
The actually 'mounted' would work better if the halfling was a fighter/sohei etc. (for lance charges and the 'mount' to benefit from the mounted combat feats) But theoretically, if you both got higher initiative than a foe, you could (by RAW) pick him up and haul him over to them in your turn so that he can do a full attack while they're still flat-footed. I really DO NOT think it'd be RAI though.
And it would probably look like we're dancing :p
...WHAT IF: you charge in to combat with your halfling on your back. After the charge she leaps from you - over the opponent - and the flanks him for sneak attack crazies?
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And it would probably look like we're dancing :p
...WHAT IF: you charge in to combat with your halfling on your back. After the charge she leaps from you - over the opponent - and the flanks him for sneak attack crazies?
If you're carrying him - theoretically yes. (though the movement would be at least 10 feet & he'd need an acrobatics check - though I suppose that you could throw him at the square :P) If he's mounted, his move actions would be used up by your moving.