Levelig block? Or am I just tooo newbish?


Pathfinder Online


Trying to get training in Power9 (needed for Cleric 5) both trainers in starter settlements and Thornkeep tell me "Only a lvl 8 settlement this server day". The few company settlements I visited did not offer a temple.

Any advice ... please?

Goblin Squad Member

I didn't see how this will change in the patch notes but this is how it seems to be working for the current build (Alpha 11).

Each settlement has a level based on the number of towers its companies have captured. If you are in a company tied to a settlement then that is the max level limit you can train. Anywhere. For example I belong to Stoneroot Glade but I could train to Power 16 anywhere on the map.

If you are not in a company then the intended default of 'lvl 8' is essentially when Tier 1 is over for almost everything (gathering, refining, crafting, training). However, role achievements Cleric and Wizard require twice as much power as Fighters and Rogues.

Goblin Squad Member

Rauxis wrote:

Trying to get training in Power9 (needed for Cleric 5) both trainers in starter settlements and Thornkeep tell me "Only a lvl 8 settlement this server day". The few company settlements I visited did not offer a temple.

Any advice ... please?

You need to be a member of a more advanced Settlement that has control of enough Towers to offer higher level training. Phaeros currently offers up to Power 16, for example.

Goblin Squad Member

Didn't we figure out that Power can be trained past 8 at one of the cleric trainers? Also that the towers are not working yet (ptrior to today's patch)?

My character has power at 11. This is with the towers not working.

Goblin Squad Member

I think one of these two things is happening:

1. You can't train past a certain level unless you're a member of a Player Settlement Company.

2. The Towers are partially working and Player Settlements are getting some improved Feat Training.

Not sure which.

Goblin Squad Member

Rauxis wrote:

Trying to get training in Power9 (needed for Cleric 5) both trainers in starter settlements and Thornkeep tell me "Only a lvl 8 settlement this server day". The few company settlements I visited did not offer a temple.

Any advice ... please?

Try a player settlement WITH cleric training.


Thanks for the answers

"You need to be a member of a more advanced Settlement that has control of enough Towers to offer higher level training. Phaeros currently offers up to Power 16, for example. "

Interesting point - but won't that lead to a lot of imbalances? Settlements with a lot of towers (and therefore power) will attract more players simply because no one else can offer high level training, which again re-enforces the status of the settlement.

"Try a player settlement WITH cleric training."
.... would mean I have to find one first, which so far I did not manage to do :P - and even if I do find one, according to Nihimon that would not help unless I join a Settlement.

"If you are not in a company then the intended default of 'lvl 8' is essentially when Tier 1 is over for almost everything (gathering, refining, crafting, training). However, role achievements Cleric and Wizard require twice as much power as Fighters and Rogues."

so clerics and wizards (or probably spellcasters in general) are screwed cause even if being member of a settlement they will always fall behind (unless the Settlement is strong enough to provide Power 40 training)?

Goblin Squad Member

Rauxis wrote:
so clerics and wizards (or probably spellcasters in general) are screwed cause even if being member of a settlement they will always fall behind (unless the Settlement is strong enough to provide Power 40 training)?

No. Power 16 is Tier 1 "Level 8" training.

Goblin Squad Member

Rauxis wrote:
Interesting point - but won't that lead to a lot of imbalances? Settlements with a lot of towers (and therefore power) will attract more players simply because no one else can offer high level training, which again re-enforces the status of the settlement.
That is the point. They want us to fight over towers.
Rauxis wrote:

"Try a player settlement WITH cleric training."

.... would mean I have to find one first, which so far I did not manage to do :P - and even if I do find one, according to Nihimon that would not help unless I join a Settlement.

"If you are not in a company then the intended default of 'lvl 8' is essentially when Tier 1 is over for almost everything (gathering, refining, crafting, training). However, role achievements Cleric and Wizard require twice as much power as Fighters and Rogues."

so clerics and wizards (or probably spellcasters in general) are screwed cause even if being member of a settlement they will always fall behind (unless the Settlement is strong enough to provide Power 40 training)?

That is, in fact, the underlying intent. Part of the anti-griefer mechanism is to make it difficult to beuild a strong character without being part of a group. But don't assume it's just spellcasters. Rogues and Fighters will also be blocked from accessing higher feat training if they aren't members of a strong group.

Any of the groups listed at the top-left of these starter maps will have cleric training:

Cleric/Rogue

Cleric/Wizard

Cleric/Fighter


Nihimon wrote:


No. Power 16 is Tier 1 "Level 8" training.

*headscratch* that makes sense - but then why was the trainer in Thornkeep telling me "no, I can not provide this training, I'm only in a lvl 8 settlement"?

intended or bug?

Goblin Squad Member

Rauxis wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
No. Power 16 is Tier 1 "Level 8" training.

*headscratch* that makes sense - but then why was the trainer in Thornkeep telling me "no, I can not provide this training, I'm only in a lvl 8 settlement"?

intended or bug?

I'm not 100% sure exactly what's going on. I just remember other players who couldn't train until they joined a Company that was pledged to a Player Settlement. It's quite likely that the Settlement doesn't even need to control any Towers, but I don't know that for a fact.

It's also possible it's something else entirely.


Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:

That is the point. They want us to fight over towers.

....
That is, in fact, the underlying intent. Part of the anti-griefer mechanism is to make it difficult to beuild a strong character without being part of a group. But don't assume it's just spellcasters. Rogues and Fighters will also be blocked from accessing higher feat training if they aren't members of a strong group.

Thanks for the pointers

But I don't think the concept of "fighting over towers" will work out long term. My theory is this works only as long as you have a number of groups of equal strength fighting over limited resources. As soon as a few of those settlements have an advantage offering to newcomers, those newcomers - and probably also members of other settlements - will come to the already strong Settlements to get the most basic reward in an MMO - training! Or, if they don't get this, simply leave the game. People in general are lazy. In most cases I have experienced they will take the easiest route to get a set reward - why make it difficult?

So what am I missing? I can't imagine this line of thought has not already been discussed to death on the forum?

Goblin Squad Member

There are a few checks. One is that the more towers you control, the longer they are open to attack. A small group with 6 or 8 towers, might only have a chance of losing them for an hour or two every day. A large group, with 16 or 18 towers, might have a 6 hour window when anyone can be attacked and their towers can be taken. By the same token, the more distributed they are, the longer it will take them to get to a trouble spot, so the harder it will be to defend their towers. There will soon be a pack of hungry wolves nipping at their heals all over the map.

Goblin Squad Member

I don't know about anybody else, but I anticipate that by a year from now, there will only be perhaps a dozen player settlements that are viable, and they will by spread more organically around the map, as opposed to the current random distribution. If the population grows a lot, that might change.


Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
I don't know about anybody else, but I anticipate that by a year from now, there will only be perhaps a dozen player settlements that are viable, and they will by spread more organically around the map, as opposed to the current random distribution. If the population grows a lot, that might change.

Looking at EVE ... my bet would be TWO

Goblin Squad Member

Rauxis wrote:
...my bet would be TWO

I can't think of the right keywords to find a quote, but I seem to recall Ryan telling us that if it became that static, they'd find a way to shake things up.

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:

There are a few checks. One is that the more towers you control, the longer they are open to attack. A small group with 6 or 8 towers, might only have a chance of losing them for an hour or two every day. A large group, with 16 or 18 towers, might have a 6 hour window when anyone can be attacked and their towers can be taken. By the same token, the more distributed they are, the longer it will take them to get to a trouble spot, so the harder it will be to defend their towers. There will soon be a pack of hungry wolves nipping at their heals all over the map.

Yeah. Phaeros has 26 Towers which gives us a 9 hour PvP window. I doubt we will try to keep that many when Towers can be captured for Alpha. In fact, I'm pretty sure we'll let some go. No way we can keep that many in Alpha.


T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:


I can't think of the right keywords to find a quote, but I seem to recall Ryan telling us that if it became that static, they'd find a way to shake things up.

They'd have to :)

... I think for EE I should name myself "Doomsayer" :D

Goblin Squad Member

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Rauxis wrote:
Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
I don't know about anybody else, but I anticipate that by a year from now, there will only be perhaps a dozen player settlements that are viable, and they will by spread more organically around the map, as opposed to the current random distribution. If the population grows a lot, that might change.
Looking at EVE ... my bet would be TWO

This is pretty much impossible by design. Each settlement can only train two of the four roles, OR have full crafting and an auction house. If there are only two settlements, they'd have to be allies and even then give up on some roles ever being in the game at levels above the NPC settlements.

I can imagine it coming down to two Nations at some point (temporarily), that each have at least three settlements, but even that is going to be hard to maintain against people's innate desire to lead. The map will get much bigger in the future, and maintaining your grip on even half of it will be a herculean task.

Goblin Squad Member

Rauxis wrote:
But I don't think the concept of "fighting over towers" will work out long term.

It's not intended to be long-term. The War of Towers is set to end when we get control of our "real" Player Settlements.

Rauxis wrote:
My theory is this works only as long as you have a number of groups of equal strength fighting over limited resources. As soon as a few of those settlements have an advantage offering to newcomers, those newcomers - and probably also members of other settlements - will come to the already strong Settlements to get the most basic reward in an MMO - training!

Ryan has expounded on this at length, but there are a number of limiting factors at play such that a single Settlement, and even a single Player Nation, can't keep growing forever.

There's also the very real factor that "everybody wants to rule the world", or if you prefer "everyone wants to be the king". There will always be players who would rather strike out on their own and build up a new Settlement from scratch than continue to be in "someone else's Settlement" just because it offers them training. The training is important, but it's not the most important thing. Running a Settlement is going to be the most challenging aspect of PFO, and I have no doubt that there will be more players who want to run a Settlement than will be able to.

Rauxis wrote:
Or, if they don't get this, simply leave the game. People in general are lazy. In most cases I have experienced they will take the easiest route to get a set reward - why make it difficult?

I'm sure there will be some players who don't play PFO because it's "too hard". There will be others who are never satisfied that it's hard enough, and lament every change that makes it more accessible. I don't envy Ryan and the devs trying to find the right balance there, but everything I've seen so far has me convinced they'll do a good job of it.

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wrote:
..."everybody wants to rule the world", or if you prefer "everyone wants to be the king".

"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven." - John Milton

CEO, Goblinworks

There is a problem with trainers in 12.1 (it has actually been a problem since 11.0). The Trainers in NPC Settlements can't offer Power at Ranks high enough to advance Clerics and Wizards. This is not the design, it is a complication of not having finished some other work related to trainers.

The design is that you will be able to train up to Rank 8 in all four Roles at NPC Trainers.

Currently, more advanced training is not available anywhere for the same reason. But when we get that work done you will be able to advance characters above Rank 8 in the Roles at PC Settlements who control enough Tpwers to unlock the training. It is also a part of that design that you will need some form of association with a Settlement to access its trainers but that is an iteration or two away from the base design.

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:

There is a problem with trainers in 12.1 (it has actually been a problem since 11.0). The Trainers in NPC Settlements can't offer Power at Ranks high enough to advance Clerics and Wizards. This is not the design, it is a complication of not having finished some other work related to trainers.

The design is that you will be able to train up to Rank 8 in all four Roles at NPC Trainers.

Currently, more advanced training is not available anywhere for the same reason. But when we get that work done you will be able to advance characters above Rank 8 in the Roles at PC Settlements who control enough Tpwers to unlock the training. It is also a part of that design that you will need some form of association with a Settlement to access its trainers but that is an iteration or two away from the base design.

I can train Power 16 in Phaeros. What you wrote makes it sound like you think I shouldn't be able to because of this bug ([Edit] or lack of implementation).

[Edit] I haven't double-checked this for 12.1, but it was available the last time I logged in a couple of day sago (been devouring Adventure Deck 3 from the Skull and Shackles Pathfinder Adventure Card Game lately).

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wrote:
"everybody wants to rule the world"

Yup!

CEO, Goblinworks

I was told you should not be able to because advanced Training due to Tower control was not implemented for 12.1. Can you verify?

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:
I was told you should not be able to because advanced Training due to Tower control was not implemented for 12.1. Can you verify?

I will in a couple of hours.

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:
I was told you should not be able to because advanced Training due to Tower control was not implemented for 12.1. Can you verify?

Prior to 12.1 I did not see Power 17 listed in the unavailable tab. I also could not access Spellbook and Arcane Weapon Proficiency 2s.

After 12.1 I do see Power 17 listed in the unavailable tab, but only in Rathglen. In the settlement I'm attached to I do not see it listed in the available or unavailable tab. I did see Spellbook and Arcane Weapon Proficiency 2s in Rathglen and trained them.

Nihimon wrote:
No. Power 16 is Tier 1 "Level 8" training.

For Rogues and Fighters Power 8 is Tier 1 "Level 8" training.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:
I was told you should not be able to because advanced Training due to Tower control was not implemented for 12.1. Can you verify?
I will in a couple of hours.

Right now, I'm looking at Power 16 in the Available Feats tab of the Wizard Academy 2 trainer in Phaeros.

Aaaaaaaand now I bought it, and just got the Wizard Level 8 Achievement.

So, I think there's just a disconnect between some folks thinking that Power 16 is "advanced Training", which it's not (at least for Wizards).

Goblinworks Executive Founder

I found Power 12 and 13 on the cleric trainer in Blackwood Glade, but not on the fighter trainer.

Could it be different based on the trainer you are using?

Goblin Squad Member

Power is trained for Cleric and Wizards,
There are 2 or 3 trainers for power Seminary or I think Occultist.

And some NPC settlements do go over level 8 power.


That's odd. I just checked a few arcane places for power 9 and I cannot get it. Perhaps if you made 9 before the changes you can keep going?

Goblin Squad Member

<Kabal> Questis wrote:
That's odd. I just checked a few arcane places for power 9 and I cannot get it. Perhaps if you made 9 before the changes you can keep going?

I think you just have to be a Member of a Company that's pledged to a Settlement.

Goblin Squad Member

Last night, a fellow was asking about this. He was in Pheonix Pass and wanted Power 9. It was in the unavailable tab and read "This Settlement only offers level 8 training this day" or something close to that. He is not a member of a player settlement.

I was standing right there. I am a member (of a player settlement) and had Power 11+ available, to me, at that same trainer.

Affiliation does seem to be a thing as people have been saying all along. The problem Ryan described seems to be the case. Just not exactly as described.

Edit: I should also add that other feats are available at NPC settlements past rank 8 to me (such as mining, etc...) but not at player settlements.


Interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

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