paizo.com Recent Posts in What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?paizo.com Recent Posts in What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?2014-11-23T19:38:54Z2014-11-23T19:38:54ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?BigNorseWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1462014-11-23T06:26:25Z2014-11-23T06:26:25Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Christopher Dudley wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
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<p>I think we're using different definitions of "underpowered." I'm thinking of "underpowered" as some build choice that's unable to keep up with the power level expected of the CR system and printed materials, in this case the AP that I'm running them through. You're using "underpowered" in this case to mean "I can think of something that does more damage."</blockquote><p>.
<p>Underpowered to me is a combination of what you've listed and its comparison to other comparable options, not that i can think of a better option (someone can always tweak a few more points out of something)</p>
<p>I do not believe that the crossbowman is going to keep up with the party for long, nor do I believe that pointing out a few good rounds of combat and lucky dice is a substitute for looking under the hood at the underlying mechanics. </p>
<p>By comparable i mean things that do the same job. A bow and a crossbow are comparable because they do the same job. A bow and a greatsword or a bow and a wand of cure light wounds are not because they don't. </p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>The crossbow fighter is keeping well ahead of the power curve. </blockquote><p>It gets quadratic pretty soon.Christopher Dudley wrote:I think we're using different definitions of "underpowered." I'm thinking of "underpowered" as some build choice that's unable to keep up with the power level expected of the CR system and printed materials, in this case the AP that I'm running them through. You're using "underpowered" in this case to mean "I can think of something that does more damage."
. Underpowered to me is a combination of what you've listed and its comparison to other comparable options, not...BigNorseWolf2014-11-23T06:26:25ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?Imbicatushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1452014-11-22T16:57:59Z2014-11-22T16:57:59Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Christopher Dudley wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Gingerbreadman wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Christopher Dudley wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
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I'm thinking of "underpowered" as some build choice that's unable to keep up with the power level expected of the CR system and printed materials, in this case the AP that I'm running them through. </blockquote>Wait, and with that definition you called the first world summoner underpowered? </blockquote>Fair enough. I've never seen the first world summoner in action. Just reading it made it sound weak. You say it does fine, I believe you. </blockquote><p>It's weak compared to a normal summoner (unless you are a half orc and summon unkillable pugwampis). That still makes is more powerful than most other classes.Christopher Dudley wrote:Gingerbreadman wrote: Christopher Dudley wrote:
I'm thinking of "underpowered" as some build choice that's unable to keep up with the power level expected of the CR system and printed materials, in this case the AP that I'm running them through.
Wait, and with that definition you called the first world summoner underpowered? Fair enough. I've never seen the first world summoner in action. Just reading it made it sound weak. You say it does fine, I believe you. It's...Imbicatus2014-11-22T16:57:59ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?Christopher Dudley (RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1442014-11-22T16:05:35Z2014-11-22T16:05:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Gingerbreadman wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Christopher Dudley wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
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I'm thinking of "underpowered" as some build choice that's unable to keep up with the power level expected of the CR system and printed materials, in this case the AP that I'm running them through. </blockquote>Wait, and with that definition you called the first world summoner underpowered? </blockquote><p>Fair enough. I've never seen the first world summoner in action. Just reading it made it sound weak. You say it does fine, I believe you.Gingerbreadman wrote:Christopher Dudley wrote:
I'm thinking of "underpowered" as some build choice that's unable to keep up with the power level expected of the CR system and printed materials, in this case the AP that I'm running them through.
Wait, and with that definition you called the first world summoner underpowered? Fair enough. I've never seen the first world summoner in action. Just reading it made it sound weak. You say it does fine, I believe you.Christopher Dudley (RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32)2014-11-22T16:05:35ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?Gingerbreadman (alias of Umbranus)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1432014-11-22T15:55:35Z2014-11-22T15:55:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Christopher Dudley wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
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I'm thinking of "underpowered" as some build choice that's unable to keep up with the power level expected of the CR system and printed materials, in this case the AP that I'm running them through. </blockquote><p>Wait, and with that definition you called the first world summoner underpowered?Christopher Dudley wrote:I'm thinking of "underpowered" as some build choice that's unable to keep up with the power level expected of the CR system and printed materials, in this case the AP that I'm running them through.
Wait, and with that definition you called the first world summoner underpowered?Gingerbreadman (alias of Umbranus)2014-11-22T15:55:35ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?Squirrel_Dudehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1422014-11-22T16:37:49Z2014-11-22T15:29:59Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">CraziFuzzy wrote:</div><blockquote> My gripe of crossbows aren't that they are weaker than, say, a barbarian's axe. It's that, relative to bows, they are so weak, when in reality, a crossbow was considered a far more dangerous weapon. </blockquote><p>Eh, crossbows were "banned" by the pope for the same reason guns were revolutionary. It gave an unskilled peasant a way to kill the noble knight. Bows took years of training. While certainly you could carry extremely powerful crossbows, it gets to a point where you're less carrying a crossbow, and more a portable ballista.
<p>That said, I see no reason for crossbows to not be more effective in Pathfinder. I'd rather them do something different than archers, though. Less "blot out the sun" and more powerful precision shooting.</p>CraziFuzzy wrote:My gripe of crossbows aren't that they are weaker than, say, a barbarian's axe. It's that, relative to bows, they are so weak, when in reality, a crossbow was considered a far more dangerous weapon.
Eh, crossbows were "banned" by the pope for the same reason guns were revolutionary. It gave an unskilled peasant a way to kill the noble knight. Bows took years of training. While certainly you could carry extremely powerful crossbows, it gets to a point where you're less...Squirrel_Dude2014-11-22T15:29:59ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?Chengar Qordathhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1412014-11-22T15:17:04Z2014-11-22T15:17:04Z<p>Really, just about every ranged weapon in the game suffers from longbow envy. The longbow just has such a huge advantage that unless you're a gunslinger there's no reason other than flavor to ever use any other ranged weapon. I'd say that's a balance issue, whether it's calling the longbow overpowered or everything else underpowered.</p>Really, just about every ranged weapon in the game suffers from longbow envy. The longbow just has such a huge advantage that unless you're a gunslinger there's no reason other than flavor to ever use any other ranged weapon. I'd say that's a balance issue, whether it's calling the longbow overpowered or everything else underpowered.Chengar Qordath2014-11-22T15:17:04ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?mplindustrieshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1402014-11-22T15:06:04Z2014-11-22T15:06:04Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Christopher Dudley wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">BigNorseWolf wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Christopher Dudley wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">LeesusFreak wrote:</div><blockquote> Crossbows. 'Nuff said. </blockquote>The 8th level fighter in my party with Crossbow Mastery and Bracers of Falcon's Aim would disagree. Two crits and a hit on a mummy in Legacy of Fire did over 100 points of damage before the mummy got a turn. Which we retconned out because as he rolled the last damage die, I realized that he 5'stepped before firing to within 30' of the mummy which put him in the fear aura, but if he'd made his save I would have let it happen. </blockquote>That is whoefully underpowered. Two crits and a hit for 100 is ~ 4th level raging barbarian damage. Even using the horribly underpriced bracers of falcons aim you've merely min maxed a crossbowman to be.. meh. </blockquote>I think we're using different definitions of "underpowered." I'm thinking of "underpowered" as some build choice that's unable to keep up with the power level expected of the CR system and printed materials, in this case the AP that I'm running them through. You're using "underpowered" in this case to mean "I can think of something that does more damage." The crossbow fighter is keeping well ahead of the power curve. </blockquote><p>Wow, what's your power curve here? Is your party a rogue, a monk, a blaster wizard with no metamagic and the crossbow user?Christopher Dudley wrote:BigNorseWolf wrote: Christopher Dudley wrote: LeesusFreak wrote: Crossbows. 'Nuff said.
The 8th level fighter in my party with Crossbow Mastery and Bracers of Falcon's Aim would disagree. Two crits and a hit on a mummy in Legacy of Fire did over 100 points of damage before the mummy got a turn. Which we retconned out because as he rolled the last damage die, I realized that he 5'stepped before firing to within 30' of the mummy which put him in the fear aura, but if...mplindustries2014-11-22T15:06:04ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?CraziFuzzyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1392014-11-22T14:59:53Z2014-11-22T14:59:53Z<p>My gripe of crossbows aren't that they are weaker than, say, a barbarian's axe. It's that, relative to bows, they are so weak, when in reality, a crossbow was considered a far more dangerous weapon.</p>My gripe of crossbows aren't that they are weaker than, say, a barbarian's axe. It's that, relative to bows, they are so weak, when in reality, a crossbow was considered a far more dangerous weapon.CraziFuzzy2014-11-22T14:59:53ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?Christopher Dudley (RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1382014-11-22T14:14:31Z2014-11-22T14:14:31Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">BigNorseWolf wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Christopher Dudley wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">LeesusFreak wrote:</div><blockquote> Crossbows. 'Nuff said. </blockquote>The 8th level fighter in my party with Crossbow Mastery and Bracers of Falcon's Aim would disagree. Two crits and a hit on a mummy in Legacy of Fire did over 100 points of damage before the mummy got a turn. Which we retconned out because as he rolled the last damage die, I realized that he 5'stepped before firing to within 30' of the mummy which put him in the fear aura, but if he'd made his save I would have let it happen. </blockquote>That is whoefully underpowered. Two crits and a hit for 100 is ~ 4th level raging barbarian damage. Even using the horribly underpriced bracers of falcons aim you've merely min maxed a crossbowman to be.. meh. </blockquote><p>I think we're using different definitions of "underpowered." I'm thinking of "underpowered" as some build choice that's unable to keep up with the power level expected of the CR system and printed materials, in this case the AP that I'm running them through. You're using "underpowered" in this case to mean "I can think of something that does more damage." The crossbow fighter is keeping well ahead of the power curve.BigNorseWolf wrote:Christopher Dudley wrote: LeesusFreak wrote: Crossbows. 'Nuff said.
The 8th level fighter in my party with Crossbow Mastery and Bracers of Falcon's Aim would disagree. Two crits and a hit on a mummy in Legacy of Fire did over 100 points of damage before the mummy got a turn. Which we retconned out because as he rolled the last damage die, I realized that he 5'stepped before firing to within 30' of the mummy which put him in the fear aura, but if he'd made his save I would...Christopher Dudley (RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32)2014-11-22T14:14:31ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?CWheezyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1372014-11-21T22:29:36Z2014-11-21T22:29:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mark Seifter wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
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<p>Yup, I'm still going to. All things in their time. I'm happy that I got the FAQs to start coming once a week. To me that feels like a good start. </blockquote><p>I'm excited for your solution on what memories a simulacrum has. If I make a copy of Karzoug, do I just know all his plans forever?Mark Seifter wrote:Yup, I'm still going to. All things in their time. I'm happy that I got the FAQs to start coming once a week. To me that feels like a good start.
I'm excited for your solution on what memories a simulacrum has. If I make a copy of Karzoug, do I just know all his plans forever?CWheezy2014-11-21T22:29:36ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?Mark Seifterhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1362014-11-23T20:02:55Z2014-11-21T22:26:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">CWheezy wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Rogue Eidolon wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">TriOmegaZero wrote:</div><blockquote> 'Your' refers to the character using the feat, not every character using the feat. </blockquote>Yes, it would seem that you each add your own modifier after sharing the highest d20 roll. </blockquote><p>Hey mark, remember when you said months ago you were going to do a blog post on how simulacrum actually worked?
<p>those were the days </blockquote><p>Yup, I'm still going to. All things in their time. I'm happy that I got the FAQs to start coming once a week. To me that feels like a good start.CWheezy wrote:Rogue Eidolon wrote: TriOmegaZero wrote: 'Your' refers to the character using the feat, not every character using the feat.
Yes, it would seem that you each add your own modifier after sharing the highest d20 roll. Hey mark, remember when you said months ago you were going to do a blog post on how simulacrum actually worked? those were the days Yup, I'm still going to. All things in their time. I'm happy that I got the FAQs to start coming once a week. To me that feels like a...Mark Seifter2014-11-21T22:26:06ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?CWheezyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1352014-11-21T22:23:01Z2014-11-21T22:23:01Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Rogue Eidolon wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">TriOmegaZero wrote:</div><blockquote> 'Your' refers to the character using the feat, not every character using the feat. </blockquote>Yes, it would seem that you each add your own modifier after sharing the highest d20 roll. </blockquote><p>Hey mark, remember when you said months ago you were going to do a blog post on how simulacrum actually worked?
<p>those were the days</p>Rogue Eidolon wrote:TriOmegaZero wrote: 'Your' refers to the character using the feat, not every character using the feat.
Yes, it would seem that you each add your own modifier after sharing the highest d20 roll. Hey mark, remember when you said months ago you were going to do a blog post on how simulacrum actually worked? those were the daysCWheezy2014-11-21T22:23:01ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?ZanThraxhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1342014-11-21T21:10:21Z2014-11-21T21:10:21Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Steven Schopmeyer wrote:</div><blockquote> Thing about that was, I was impatiently waiting for my VL status to get updated, and tried to post this one to actually have my name there. But it doesn't list my region, so it's pretty useless. </blockquote><p>I wasn't meaning it sound like a bad thing TOZ; I'm frequently impressed by the effort you put into using the right name for the right comment. (Although I've yet to figure out when you use TOZ vs. TriOmegaZero.)Steven Schopmeyer wrote:Thing about that was, I was impatiently waiting for my VL status to get updated, and tried to post this one to actually have my name there. But it doesn't list my region, so it's pretty useless.
I wasn't meaning it sound like a bad thing TOZ; I'm frequently impressed by the effort you put into using the right name for the right comment. (Although I've yet to figure out when you use TOZ vs. TriOmegaZero.)ZanThrax2014-11-21T21:10:21ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?CraziFuzzyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1332014-11-23T19:49:24Z2014-11-21T20:58:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Human Diversion wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Here's the exact text from the feat (which I linked above):</p>
<p>"Benefit: While you can see one or more allies who also have this feat, whenever you and your allies make a Stealth check, you all take the highest roll and add all your modifiers to Stealth."</p>
<p>Seems pretty clear to me. </blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">The Human Diversion wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">TriOmegaZero wrote:</div><blockquote> 'Your' refers to the character using the feat, not every character using the feat. </blockquote><p>The language is ambiguous and it's been marked by 12 people for FAQ, both of which can be found here:
<p>http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mz7z?Stealth-Synergy#1 </blockquote><p>If you feel it is 'pretty clear', why also do you consider it is 'ambiguous' and request the FAQ? I think deep down you know it is not supposed to be that ridiculously overpowered, but are rules-lawyering the admittedly poor wording saying its up to the devs to prove you wrong via a FAQ entry. This happens all the time on this forum. And its pretty obvious every time.
<p>Can you think of any other feat anywhere that can give a 9th level character a +22 on ANYTHING? While there are plenty that will provide a 'double roll take highest'. So which do you think the RAI is here?</p>The Human Diversion wrote:Here's the exact text from the feat (which I linked above):
"Benefit: While you can see one or more allies who also have this feat, whenever you and your allies make a Stealth check, you all take the highest roll and add all your modifiers to Stealth."
Seems pretty clear to me.
The Human Diversion wrote:TriOmegaZero wrote: 'Your' refers to the character using the feat, not every character using the feat.
The language is ambiguous and it's been marked by 12 people...CraziFuzzy2014-11-21T20:58:36ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?Grandmaster TOZ (alias of TriOmegaZero)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1322014-11-21T20:32:33Z2014-11-21T20:32:33Z<p>Thing about that was, I was impatiently waiting for my VL status to get updated, and tried to post this one to actually have my name there. But it doesn't list my region, so it's pretty useless.</p>Thing about that was, I was impatiently waiting for my VL status to get updated, and tried to post this one to actually have my name there. But it doesn't list my region, so it's pretty useless.Grandmaster TOZ (alias of TriOmegaZero)2014-11-21T20:32:33ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?ZanThraxhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1312014-11-21T20:16:43Z2014-11-21T20:16:43Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">BigNorseWolf wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">TriOmegaZero wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Oh I know. I still find it funny.</p>
<p>People still don't realize TOZ is my alias. </blockquote>To be fair the NSA has lost track of some of them. </blockquote><p>40 ish non-PFS character aliases, and all of one post by the one that's his actual name.BigNorseWolf wrote:TriOmegaZero wrote:Oh I know. I still find it funny.
People still don't realize TOZ is my alias.
To be fair the NSA has lost track of some of them. 40 ish non-PFS character aliases, and all of one post by the one that's his actual name.ZanThrax2014-11-21T20:16:43ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?MYTHIC TOZ (alias of TriOmegaZero)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1302014-11-21T19:51:42Z2014-11-21T19:51:42Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">BigNorseWolf wrote:</div><blockquote>To be fair the NSA has lost track of some of them. </blockquote><p>Tch. What the hell are we paying them for anyway?BigNorseWolf wrote:To be fair the NSA has lost track of some of them.
Tch. What the hell are we paying them for anyway?MYTHIC TOZ (alias of TriOmegaZero)2014-11-21T19:51:42ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?BigNorseWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1292014-11-21T20:14:49Z2014-11-21T19:50:18Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">TriOmegaZero wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Oh I know. I still find it funny.</p>
<p>People still don't realize TOZ is my alias. </blockquote><p>To be fair the NSA has lost track of some of them.TriOmegaZero wrote:Oh I know. I still find it funny.
People still don't realize TOZ is my alias.
To be fair the NSA has lost track of some of them.BigNorseWolf2014-11-21T19:50:18ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?TriOmegaZerohttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1282014-11-21T19:31:18Z2014-11-21T19:31:18Z<p>Oh I know. I still find it funny.</p>
<p>People still don't realize TOZ is my alias.</p>Oh I know. I still find it funny.
People still don't realize TOZ is my alias.TriOmegaZero2014-11-21T19:31:18ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?ZanThraxhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1272014-11-23T14:11:08Z2014-11-21T19:26:58Z<p>To be fair TOZ, not every poster realizes that Rogue Eidolon is Mark Seifter. There are probably some posters who don't know that hovering on a username will tell you who it's an alias of.</p>To be fair TOZ, not every poster realizes that Rogue Eidolon is Mark Seifter. There are probably some posters who don't know that hovering on a username will tell you who it's an alias of.ZanThrax2014-11-21T19:26:58ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?Claxonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1262014-11-21T19:20:08Z2014-11-21T19:20:08Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Imbicatus wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Claxon wrote:</div><blockquote><p> As long as you don't mind spending 5 levels of Bolt Ace crossbows are great. Actually, if you want to be good at Crossbows just play a straight Bolt Ace. Doesn't get much else to be excited about, but they're fraking amazing at crossbows.</p>
<p>With Bracers of Falcon's Aim and Crossbow Training (at level 5) you have a weapon that is 19-20x4. Plus dex damage. You take a bit longer to reach your stride than an archer, but honestly your damage will probably beat out the dedicated archer's because of your higher critical multplier and the fact that you're SAD (at least for your attacks). The only real difference at the end that I can think of is that you can't use Manyshot on crossbows. </blockquote><p>The ability to target touch AC makes up for the loss of manyshot. You get fewer attacks, but they are more accurate.
</p>
But If you want more attacks, you can use TWF with crossbows to make up the difference, or use a double crossbow, or multiclass with sohei. </blockquote><p>Yes, once you get to level 11 and can attack vs touch AC using no grit your damage will soar above what an archer could hope to do. Mostly because you'll never miss.Imbicatus wrote:Claxon wrote:As long as you don't mind spending 5 levels of Bolt Ace crossbows are great. Actually, if you want to be good at Crossbows just play a straight Bolt Ace. Doesn't get much else to be excited about, but they're fraking amazing at crossbows.
With Bracers of Falcon's Aim and Crossbow Training (at level 5) you have a weapon that is 19-20x4. Plus dex damage. You take a bit longer to reach your stride than an archer, but honestly your damage will probably beat out the...Claxon2014-11-21T19:20:08ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?TOZ (alias of TriOmegaZero)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1252014-11-21T19:16:17Z2014-11-21T19:16:17Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Human Diversion wrote:</div><blockquote>Ok, and why is that funny? There's no official ruling and more people FAQing it would maybe get an official answer. </blockquote><p>Because you just asked the guy in charge of posting the official FAQs to go FAQ the question to get it officially answered.
<p>And I already FAQed it, as I said upthread.</p>The Human Diversion wrote:Ok, and why is that funny? There's no official ruling and more people FAQing it would maybe get an official answer.
Because you just asked the guy in charge of posting the official FAQs to go FAQ the question to get it officially answered. And I already FAQed it, as I said upthread.TOZ (alias of TriOmegaZero)2014-11-21T19:16:17ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?The Human Diversionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1242014-11-21T19:13:08Z2014-11-21T19:13:08Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">TOZ wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">The Human Diversion wrote:</div><blockquote> I invite you all to go to the thread I linked above and ask for a FAQ. </blockquote><p>•falls over laughing•
<p>Dude, he IS the FAQ.</p>
<p>(Okay, not exactly accurate, but being the spokesman for the PDT is close enough.) </blockquote><p>Ok, and why is that funny? There's no official ruling and more people FAQing it would maybe get an official answer.TOZ wrote:The Human Diversion wrote: I invite you all to go to the thread I linked above and ask for a FAQ.
*falls over laughing* Dude, he IS the FAQ.
(Okay, not exactly accurate, but being the spokesman for the PDT is close enough.) Ok, and why is that funny? There's no official ruling and more people FAQing it would maybe get an official answer.The Human Diversion2014-11-21T19:13:08ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?BretIhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1232014-11-21T19:16:58Z2014-11-21T19:08:01Z<p>I don't think it has been mentioned yet, thrown weapons are even worse than crossbows because of action rules.</p>
<p>I would also put Sacred Summons on the Underwhelming list assuming that you strictly follow the alignment subtype requirement. At first reading, I thought it would be wonderful. Checking into it more, even when combined with Summon Good Monster it really didn't give you that many summons you could do as a standard action. If Celestial/Fiendish gave the appropriate alignment subtype it would be great.</p>
<p>For the levels that PFS plays at, I don't think Arcane Trickster is worth it. The problem is you lose the FCB and the advancement in any arcane powers.</p>I don't think it has been mentioned yet, thrown weapons are even worse than crossbows because of action rules.
I would also put Sacred Summons on the Underwhelming list assuming that you strictly follow the alignment subtype requirement. At first reading, I thought it would be wonderful. Checking into it more, even when combined with Summon Good Monster it really didn't give you that many summons you could do as a standard action. If Celestial/Fiendish gave the appropriate alignment subtype...BretI2014-11-21T19:08:01ZRe: Forums: Advice: What character options are underwhelming or underpowered?TOZ (alias of TriOmegaZero)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpqm&page=3?What-character-options-are-underwhelming-or#1222014-11-21T19:02:50Z2014-11-21T19:02:50Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Human Diversion wrote:</div><blockquote> I invite you all to go to the thread I linked above and ask for a FAQ. </blockquote><p>•falls over laughing•
<p>Dude, he IS the FAQ.</p>
<p>(Okay, not exactly accurate, but being the spokesman for the PDT is close enough.)</p>The Human Diversion wrote:I invite you all to go to the thread I linked above and ask for a FAQ.
*falls over laughing* Dude, he IS the FAQ.
(Okay, not exactly accurate, but being the spokesman for the PDT is close enough.)TOZ (alias of TriOmegaZero)2014-11-21T19:02:50Z