paizo.com Recent Posts in How many traits are better than feats?paizo.com Recent Posts in How many traits are better than feats?2014-11-19T22:47:35Z2014-11-19T22:47:35ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Starbuck_IIhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#412016-10-18T14:15:20Z2016-10-18T14:15:20Z<p>Armor Master Guide:
<br />
To the Last: DR 1/- which stacks with all DR. But only works when no ally within 60 ft. Useful for a Boss, less useful for a PC unless Solo.</p>
<p>Armored Soul: +1 trait saves vs divine damage when wearing armor.</p>
<p>Weapon Master:
<br />
Roving Range: Ranged weapons get +5 range</p>Armor Master Guide:
To the Last: DR 1/- which stacks with all DR. But only works when no ally within 60 ft. Useful for a Boss, less useful for a PC unless Solo.
Armored Soul: +1 trait saves vs divine damage when wearing armor.
Weapon Master:
Roving Range: Ranged weapons get +5 rangeStarbuck_II2016-10-18T14:15:20ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?SheepishEidolonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#402016-10-18T10:55:04Z2016-10-18T10:55:04Z<p>A trait with the same effect as a feat can still be the worse choice, because taking a trait prohibits you from taking more traits in this category. Both the race trait Tusked and the feat Razortusk give you a primary bite attack with 1d4 damage. But you might want another race trait, like Brute (add crit multiplier as damage when you threaten a crit, not multiplied by crits though) or Dirty Fighter (+3 to feint).</p>A trait with the same effect as a feat can still be the worse choice, because taking a trait prohibits you from taking more traits in this category. Both the race trait Tusked and the feat Razortusk give you a primary bite attack with 1d4 damage. But you might want another race trait, like Brute (add crit multiplier as damage when you threaten a crit, not multiplied by crits though) or Dirty Fighter (+3 to feint).SheepishEidolon2016-10-18T10:55:04ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Ryskyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#392016-10-18T08:38:14Z2016-10-18T08:38:14Z<p>Broken, not Beaten is also very nice.</p>
<p>The only reason I took Diehard in 3.5 was to not bleed out anyway.</p>Broken, not Beaten is also very nice.
The only reason I took Diehard in 3.5 was to not bleed out anyway.Rysky2016-10-18T08:38:14ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Vrischika111https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#382016-10-18T08:04:42Z2016-10-18T08:04:42Z<p>Rub-Eta :
<br />
the trait deadeye does not remove the -4 penalty for shooting in melee (equivalent of precise shot). it remove the -4 penalty for soft cover IF only ONE CREATURE is causing it.</p>
<p>so if you're a ranged char, point-blank and precise shot are "mandatory" anyway</p>Rub-Eta :
the trait deadeye does not remove the -4 penalty for shooting in melee (equivalent of precise shot). it remove the -4 penalty for soft cover IF only ONE CREATURE is causing it.
so if you're a ranged char, point-blank and precise shot are "mandatory" anywayVrischika1112016-10-18T08:04:42ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Grumbakihttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#372016-10-18T01:26:26Z2016-10-18T01:26:26Z<p>Clever Wordplay / Bruising Intellect.</p>
<p>Use Int for one Cha skill.</p>
<p>Let's say you are a fighter with Str18 Dex14 Con14. Drop Cha down to 7 and Wis to 9. Boost Int to 14. You now have your intimidate (your only class skill) at +2, and get 2 more skill points (and classes like that really need it). You get Wis back at lvl4, and from there just focus on strength.</p>
<p>It's an amazing trait that shores up a major weakness for classes like that.</p>
<p>Make it a half orc and add fate's favored. You easily make up for the lost wisdom, and with intimidating you get +4 to intimidate, which is the equivalent of Cha18.</p>Clever Wordplay / Bruising Intellect.
Use Int for one Cha skill.
Let's say you are a fighter with Str18 Dex14 Con14. Drop Cha down to 7 and Wis to 9. Boost Int to 14. You now have your intimidate (your only class skill) at +2, and get 2 more skill points (and classes like that really need it). You get Wis back at lvl4, and from there just focus on strength.
It's an amazing trait that shores up a major weakness for classes like that.
Make it a half orc and add fate's favored. You easily...Grumbaki2016-10-18T01:26:26ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Roschttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#362016-10-18T09:02:42Z2016-10-18T01:17:09Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>And Composite Longbows are longbows. Please, don't be stupid. </blockquote><p>If composite longbows were longbows, they wouldnt have the following text:
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and similar feats, a composite longbow is treated as if it were a longbow.
<br />
</blockquote></blockquote><p>Another strong arguement is the pregen iconic Hunter. She has Deadeye Bowman and she uses a composite longbow.shadowkras wrote:Quote:And Composite Longbows are longbows. Please, don't be stupid.
If composite longbows were longbows, they wouldnt have the following text: Quote:For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and similar feats, a composite longbow is treated as if it were a longbow.
Another strong arguement is the pregen iconic Hunter. She has Deadeye Bowman and she uses a composite longbow.Rosc2016-10-18T01:17:09ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?shadowkrashttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#352016-10-18T00:42:32Z2016-10-18T00:42:32Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>And Composite Longbows are longbows. Please, don't be stupid. </blockquote><p>If composite longbows were longbows, they wouldnt have the following text:
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and similar feats, a composite longbow is treated as if it were a longbow.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Quote:And Composite Longbows are longbows. Please, don't be stupid.
If composite longbows were longbows, they wouldnt have the following text: Quote:For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and similar feats, a composite longbow is treated as if it were a longbow.shadowkras2016-10-18T00:42:32ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Rub-Etahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#342016-10-17T18:09:46Z2016-10-17T18:09:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote><p> When taken out of context, of course the traits on the SRD seem powerful:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Deadeye Bowman
<br />
Source Inner Sea Gods pg. 219 (Amazon)
<br />
<b>Category Religion
<br />
Requirement(s) Erastil</b>
<br />
When you are using a longbow, if only a single creature is providing soft cover to your target, your target does not receive the +4 bonus to AC.</blockquote><p>- Restricted to followers of Erastil. So if you follow any other god, nope.
</p>
- Only longbows. No crossbows, rays, throwing weapons, fireguns. Or even shortbows. And probably does not count for composite longbows, as they are different weapons that only count as the same regarding proficiency, but this will see table variance. So, only longbows and Daikyu (eastern version of longbow) are allowed.
<br />
- Only if he has another creature providing soft cover. Doesn't work against low walls, tower shields, corners, etc. Or even if two or more creatures are providing cover.</p>
<p>I don't see this being even as remotely as powerful as a feat, with this many restrictions. </blockquote><p>I have nothing against playing an Erastil worshiper, not really a restriction.
</p>
Being restricted to the very best ranged weapon isn't a problem. And Composite Longbows are longbows. Please, don't be stupid.
<br />
Walls, tower shields and most corners don't provide soft cover anyway. Other people are by far the most common soft cover.</p>
<p>EDIT: If you doubt the trait's usability:
<br />
Take a look at the most probable positioning in combat. If you use a longbow, you will most likely be positioned behind your friends, who then will be providing soft cover for the enemies.</p>
<p>Take a look at the Precise Shot feat. It allows you to ignore a -4 penalty with ranged attacks in the same situation where the trait removes a +4 bonus to enemies AC.</p>
<p>The Improved Precise Shot feat is stronger than the trait (as it ignores all cover and concealment short of total cover and total concealment).
<br />
Having invested 4 Feats (Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot (which also required Point-Blank Shot), Improved Precise Shot), high (19) Dex and be (at least) level 11 (or level 15 for a 3/4BAB) should be stronger than a trait gained at level 1. It should also be stronger than Improved Precise Shot.</p>shadowkras wrote:When taken out of context, of course the traits on the SRD seem powerful:
Quote:
Deadeye Bowman
Source Inner Sea Gods pg. 219 (Amazon)
Category Religion
Requirement(s) Erastil
When you are using a longbow, if only a single creature is providing soft cover to your target, your target does not receive the +4 bonus to AC.
- Restricted to followers of Erastil. So if you follow any other god, nope.
- Only longbows. No crossbows, rays, throwing weapons, fireguns. Or even...Rub-Eta2016-10-17T18:09:46ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Rub-Etahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#332016-10-17T18:05:05Z2016-10-17T18:05:05Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Cuup wrote:</div><blockquote> Since no traits are as good as the Extra Traits feat, I'd say no Traits are better than feats. </blockquote><p>I see you took the cheap way out. But remember that Additional Traits is only as good as the traits you pick. It could also be terrible.
<p>Another vote for Fate's Favored. Next level, my Destined Bloodrager gets his luck bonus to AC and saves. Fate's Favored essentially makes me 4 levels higher in determining the bonus I gain.</p>Cuup wrote:Since no traits are as good as the Extra Traits feat, I'd say no Traits are better than feats.
I see you took the cheap way out. But remember that Additional Traits is only as good as the traits you pick. It could also be terrible. Another vote for Fate's Favored. Next level, my Destined Bloodrager gets his luck bonus to AC and saves. Fate's Favored essentially makes me 4 levels higher in determining the bonus I gain.Rub-Eta2016-10-17T18:05:05ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?David knott 242https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#322016-10-17T18:10:20Z2016-10-17T17:58:49Z<p>Any feat that grants weapon proficiency and other stuff is by definition better than the corresponding weapon proficiency feat. </p>
<p>For example, Varisian Tattoo grants proficiency with one exotic weapon and one martial weapon as well as a saving throw bonus that would be worth a trait on its own.</p>Any feat that grants weapon proficiency and other stuff is by definition better than the corresponding weapon proficiency feat.
For example, Varisian Tattoo grants proficiency with one exotic weapon and one martial weapon as well as a saving throw bonus that would be worth a trait on its own.David knott 2422016-10-17T17:58:49ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Cuuphttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#312016-10-17T17:43:15Z2016-10-17T17:43:15Z<p>Since no traits are as good as the Extra Traits feat, I'd say no Traits are better than feats.</p>Since no traits are as good as the Extra Traits feat, I'd say no Traits are better than feats.Cuup2016-10-17T17:43:15ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?shadowkrashttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#302016-10-17T18:07:50Z2016-10-17T14:22:14Z<p>When taken out of context, of course the traits on the SRD seem powerful:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Deadeye Bowman
<br />
Source Inner Sea Gods pg. 219 (Amazon)
<br />
<b>Category Religion
<br />
Requirement(s) Erastil</b>
<br />
When you are using a longbow, if only a single creature is providing soft cover to your target, your target does not receive the +4 bonus to AC.</blockquote><p>- Restricted to followers of Erastil. So if you follow any other god, nope.
</p>
- Only longbows. No crossbows, rays, throwing weapons, fireguns. Or even shortbows. And probably does not count for composite longbows, as they are different weapons that only count as the same regarding proficiency, but this will see table variance. So, only longbows and Daikyu (eastern version of longbow) are allowed.
<br />
- Only if he has another creature providing soft cover. Doesn't work against low walls, tower shields, corners, etc. Or even if two or more creatures are providing cover.</p>
<p>I don't see this being even as remotely as powerful as a feat, with this many restrictions.</p>When taken out of context, of course the traits on the SRD seem powerful:
Quote:Deadeye Bowman
Source Inner Sea Gods pg. 219 (Amazon)
Category Religion
Requirement(s) Erastil
When you are using a longbow, if only a single creature is providing soft cover to your target, your target does not receive the +4 bonus to AC.
- Restricted to followers of Erastil. So if you follow any other god, nope.
- Only longbows. No crossbows, rays, throwing weapons, fireguns. Or even shortbows. And probably...shadowkras2016-10-17T14:22:14ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Galnöraghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#292016-10-17T10:33:31Z2016-10-17T10:33:31Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">PrinceRaven wrote:</div><blockquote> Better than which feats? Lots of them are better than Elephant stomp, I'd hesitate to say any are better than Power Attack. </blockquote><p>While Improved Precise Shot is strictly better Deadeye is in almost as good with significantly less requirements.
</p>
1. Only prerequisite is to worship a misogynist deity vs 2 feats and BAB +11
<br />
2. usually easy to meet the combat requirement of only 1 intervening foe.
<br />
3. limited to longbows (which includes composite longbows), so not really a limitation for most builds.</p>PrinceRaven wrote:Better than which feats? Lots of them are better than Elephant stomp, I'd hesitate to say any are better than Power Attack.
While Improved Precise Shot is strictly better Deadeye is in almost as good with significantly less requirements.
1. Only prerequisite is to worship a misogynist deity vs 2 feats and BAB +11
2. usually easy to meet the combat requirement of only 1 intervening foe.
3. limited to longbows (which includes composite longbows), so not really a limitation...Galnörag2016-10-17T10:33:31ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?kestral287https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#282014-11-19T22:48:45Z2014-11-19T22:48:45Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Dragonchess Player wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">kestral287 wrote:</div><blockquote> Unless you take Additional Traits at level one.</blockquote><p><a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/advancedFeats.html#additional-traits" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">False</a>.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">PRD wrote:</div><blockquote> You gain two character traits of your choice (see Chapter 8). <b>These traits must be chosen from different lists, and cannot be chosen from lists from which you have already selected a character trait</b>. You must meet any additional qualifications for the character traits you choose. </blockquote>(emphasis mine) </blockquote><p>My apologies for not being more clear, I meant that as a response to the above poster's argument that you should only be allowed to take Additional Traits if you role-play some change in background over the course of their adventuring life.Dragonchess Player wrote:kestral287 wrote: Unless you take Additional Traits at level one.
False. PRD wrote:You gain two character traits of your choice (see Chapter 8). These traits must be chosen from different lists, and cannot be chosen from lists from which you have already selected a character trait. You must meet any additional qualifications for the character traits you choose.
(emphasis mine) My apologies for not being more clear, I meant that as a response to the above poster's...kestral2872014-11-19T22:48:45ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?kestral287https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#272014-11-19T20:44:37Z2014-11-19T20:44:37Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">necromental wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">kestral287 wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Unless you take Additional Traits at level one.</p>
<p>No supertraits discussion is complete without Finding Haleen, is it? Not just better than a feat, better than <i>two</i> feats (as it's basically Fast Learner + Toughness).</p>
<p>However, it is worth noting that most of these are 'better' than feats because there is no comparable feat. For example, Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter are awesome, and have no direct comparison... because their comparison, Arcane Thesis, is sitting over in 3.5, being far more awesome, and probably intentionally not getting ported to Pathfinder. </blockquote><p>Isn't Arcane Thesis just Magical Lineage+Spell Specialization? Ok, cheaper, but with Wayang Spellhunter, the combo you get is above and beyond arcane thesis.
<p>Finding Haleen is really nice. </blockquote><p>Arcane Thesis reduces the added level of <i>each</i> metamagic effect by one. Intensified? +0. Elemental? +0 Empowered? +1. Maximize or Dazing? +2. Intensified Empowered Maximized Dazing Fireball of the element of your choice? 8th level spell, normally 13th. Oh, and then you get the +2 caster level on top of that. From my understanding you could do much worse with full out 3.5 material where a bunch of +0 level metamagic effects existed; as somebody else noted it was errata'd that the total spell level can't be lower than the original level, but add in, say, two or three of those +0 metamagics to the above and it goes from an 8th level spell to a 5th or 6th.
<p>Yeah. It's kind of awesome, and far and above the two Pathfinder traits that are its closest equivalent.</p>necromental wrote:kestral287 wrote:Unless you take Additional Traits at level one.
No supertraits discussion is complete without Finding Haleen, is it? Not just better than a feat, better than two feats (as it's basically Fast Learner + Toughness).
However, it is worth noting that most of these are 'better' than feats because there is no comparable feat. For example, Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter are awesome, and have no direct comparison... because their comparison, Arcane Thesis,...kestral2872014-11-19T20:44:37ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Lemarteshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#262014-11-19T16:48:54Z2014-11-19T16:48:54Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">RainyDayNinja wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Lemartes wrote:</div><blockquote> Does Fates Favoured stack with say sacred tattoo or halfling luck bonus? Cause those are racial traits vs a trait. Not sure. </blockquote><p>There's no issue of stacking. Fate's Favored increases all luck bonuses by 1, and Sacred Tattoo gives a +1 luck bonus to all saves, so that's increased to +2.
<p>Halfling Luck, despite its name, is a racial bonus and not a luck bonus, so it doesn't apply. </blockquote><p>Thanks. :)RainyDayNinja wrote:Lemartes wrote: Does Fates Favoured stack with say sacred tattoo or halfling luck bonus? Cause those are racial traits vs a trait. Not sure.
There's no issue of stacking. Fate's Favored increases all luck bonuses by 1, and Sacred Tattoo gives a +1 luck bonus to all saves, so that's increased to +2. Halfling Luck, despite its name, is a racial bonus and not a luck bonus, so it doesn't apply. Thanks. :)Lemartes2014-11-19T16:48:54ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Shane LeRosehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#252014-11-19T16:43:57Z2014-11-19T16:43:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Undone wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Majuba wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Finding Haleen is a 3.5 Campaign Trait, not really comparable to the rest.</p>
<p>There are definitely quite a few traits that are better than <i>average</i> feats. Most have been mentioned above. The Andoran trait that gives bow proficiency and ignore the first range increment qualifies, as does Eastern Mysteries I'd say, just due to stackability.</p>
<p>I would define average feats as the saving throw feats, Dodge, perhaps Cleave, and Spell Focus for someone who isn't super-specializing (not usually great for Clerics for instance). </blockquote><p>I agree some campaign traits are crazy because they are intended for that game only and usually are related to an NPC. That's not really fair.
<p>The prof bow andoran trait is simply silly. </blockquote><p>The prof bow trait is called Hunter's Eye. It's not on the d20pfsrd, but it can be found under archives of nethys. I can now make my battle shaman without being an elf. I am very happy. :)
<p>Pathfinder is not a perfectly balanced game. Some things are better than others all the time, other things are amazing in the right situations, and the rest is page filler. Though, once in awhile I'm sure a "worthless" trait, feat, class, race, etc could be usable with the right build. It's part of the challenge of building a character.</p>Undone wrote:Majuba wrote:Finding Haleen is a 3.5 Campaign Trait, not really comparable to the rest.
There are definitely quite a few traits that are better than average feats. Most have been mentioned above. The Andoran trait that gives bow proficiency and ignore the first range increment qualifies, as does Eastern Mysteries I'd say, just due to stackability.
I would define average feats as the saving throw feats, Dodge, perhaps Cleave, and Spell Focus for someone who isn't...Shane LeRose2014-11-19T16:43:57ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?RainyDayNinja (RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#242014-11-19T16:25:40Z2014-11-19T16:25:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Lemartes wrote:</div><blockquote> Does Fates Favoured stack with say sacred tattoo or halfling luck bonus? Cause those are racial traits vs a trait. Not sure. </blockquote><p>There's no issue of stacking. Fate's Favored increases all luck bonuses by 1, and Sacred Tattoo gives a +1 luck bonus to all saves, so that's increased to +2.
<p>Halfling Luck, despite its name, is a racial bonus and not a luck bonus, so it doesn't apply.</p>Lemartes wrote:Does Fates Favoured stack with say sacred tattoo or halfling luck bonus? Cause those are racial traits vs a trait. Not sure.
There's no issue of stacking. Fate's Favored increases all luck bonuses by 1, and Sacred Tattoo gives a +1 luck bonus to all saves, so that's increased to +2. Halfling Luck, despite its name, is a racial bonus and not a luck bonus, so it doesn't apply.RainyDayNinja (RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16)2014-11-19T16:25:40ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Lemarteshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#232014-11-19T16:22:30Z2014-11-19T16:22:30Z<p>Does Fates Favoured stack with say sacred tattoo or halfling luck bonus? Cause those are racial traits vs a trait. Not sure.</p>Does Fates Favoured stack with say sacred tattoo or halfling luck bonus? Cause those are racial traits vs a trait. Not sure.Lemartes2014-11-19T16:22:30ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Undonehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#222014-11-19T16:12:03Z2014-11-19T16:12:03Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Majuba wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Finding Haleen is a 3.5 Campaign Trait, not really comparable to the rest.</p>
<p>There are definitely quite a few traits that are better than <i>average</i> feats. Most have been mentioned above. The Andoran trait that gives bow proficiency and ignore the first range increment qualifies, as does Eastern Mysteries I'd say, just due to stackability.</p>
<p>I would define average feats as the saving throw feats, Dodge, perhaps Cleave, and Spell Focus for someone who isn't super-specializing (not usually great for Clerics for instance). </blockquote><p>I agree some campaign traits are crazy because they are intended for that game only and usually are related to an NPC. That's not really fair.
<p>The prof bow andoran trait is simply silly.</p>Majuba wrote:Finding Haleen is a 3.5 Campaign Trait, not really comparable to the rest.
There are definitely quite a few traits that are better than average feats. Most have been mentioned above. The Andoran trait that gives bow proficiency and ignore the first range increment qualifies, as does Eastern Mysteries I'd say, just due to stackability.
I would define average feats as the saving throw feats, Dodge, perhaps Cleave, and Spell Focus for someone who isn't super-specializing (not...Undone2014-11-19T16:12:03ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?boring7https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#212014-11-19T15:45:53Z2014-11-19T15:45:53Z<p>Well I'm sure I'm doing it wrong, but most of my traits end up being something that gives a class skill, something that buffs a weak save, or Magical Talent (or whatever the thing is that gives you any <s>0th level spell</s>Prestidigitation as a spell-like ability).</p>Well I'm sure I'm doing it wrong, but most of my traits end up being something that gives a class skill, something that buffs a weak save, or Magical Talent (or whatever the thing is that gives you any 0th level spellPrestidigitation as a spell-like ability).boring72014-11-19T15:45:53ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Undonehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#202014-11-19T15:39:06Z2014-11-19T15:39:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Rhorik Hogsvard wrote:</div><blockquote> How about Second Chance? Better than any single Improved (save feat) with no prerequisite. </blockquote><p>That is Lessons of chaldira.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>You forgot Fate's Favored.</blockquote><p>I did and it's incredible.Rhorik Hogsvard wrote:How about Second Chance? Better than any single Improved (save feat) with no prerequisite.
That is Lessons of chaldira. Quote:You forgot Fate's Favored.
I did and it's incredible.Undone2014-11-19T15:39:06ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Rhorik Hogsvardhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#192014-11-19T14:34:01Z2014-11-19T14:34:01Z<p>How about Second Chance? Better than any single Improved (save feat) with no prerequisite.</p>How about Second Chance? Better than any single Improved (save feat) with no prerequisite.Rhorik Hogsvard2014-11-19T14:34:01ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?BretIhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#182014-11-19T14:30:01Z2014-11-19T14:30:01Z<p>Magical Knack, mostly because there isn't a feat that does something like it.</p>
<p>Affiable is a special case, but nearly as good as Cosmopolitan. You can't select the skills, but you get two good skills added to your class skills list.</p>
<p>I don't care for the Replace X with Y (such as Wisdom in the Flesh) traits.</p>
<p>Reactionary is probably more than should be in a trait, even though it is exactly half the bonus of a feat.</p>Magical Knack, mostly because there isn't a feat that does something like it.
Affiable is a special case, but nearly as good as Cosmopolitan. You can't select the skills, but you get two good skills added to your class skills list.
I don't care for the Replace X with Y (such as Wisdom in the Flesh) traits.
Reactionary is probably more than should be in a trait, even though it is exactly half the bonus of a feat.BretI2014-11-19T14:30:01ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How many traits are better than feats?Majubahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpp8?How-many-traits-are-better-than-feats#172014-11-19T14:19:41Z2014-11-19T14:19:41Z<p>Finding Haleen is a 3.5 Campaign Trait, not really comparable to the rest.</p>
<p>There are definitely quite a few traits that are better than <i>average</i> feats. Most have been mentioned above. The Andoran trait that gives bow proficiency and ignore the first range increment qualifies, as does Eastern Mysteries I'd say, just due to stackability.</p>
<p>I would define average feats as the saving throw feats, Dodge, perhaps Cleave, and Spell Focus for someone who isn't super-specializing (not usually great for Clerics for instance).</p>Finding Haleen is a 3.5 Campaign Trait, not really comparable to the rest.
There are definitely quite a few traits that are better than average feats. Most have been mentioned above. The Andoran trait that gives bow proficiency and ignore the first range increment qualifies, as does Eastern Mysteries I'd say, just due to stackability.
I would define average feats as the saving throw feats, Dodge, perhaps Cleave, and Spell Focus for someone who isn't super-specializing (not usually great for...Majuba2014-11-19T14:19:41Z