Venture-Lieutenant, South Dakota—Rapid City
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Because it's fairly easy to deal an insane amount of damage between that, a lance, and Spirited Charge. Cavaliers don't need that to be playable and some of the gunslinger shenanigans have been covered by the weapon cord errata.
I will admit it is a cool piece of armor, though.
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It isn't legal because it is super overpowered. I have a charge based character that does 4d6 + 2d6 Holy + 1d6 Acid + 1d6 Electric + ~58 (been several months since he hit 12, so I don't recall the exact bonus damage) on a regular charge. Add 2d6 + ~30 for a crit... I was already popping large demons through their DR on crits, an additional 4d6 would be insane.
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Mr. Hillman,
You don't want my character with that, even in your homegame... Lucky little bastard had 3 negative Wish spells cast on him, and made every save... That's what happens with halflings I suppose.
It isn't legal because it is super overpowered. I have a charge based character that does 4d6 + 2d6 Holy + 1d6 Acid + 1d6 Electric + ~58 (been several months since he hit 12, so I don't recall the exact bonus damage) on a regular charge. Add 2d6 + ~30 for a crit... I was already popping large demons through their DR on crits, an additional 4d6 would be insane.with gunslingers cranking out over 900 damage around at 9th level with a touch attack i dont see this as a big deal is all i am saying.
There are ways to do similar shenaningans with other classes...
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It isn't legal because it is super overpowered. I have a charge based character that does 4d6 + 2d6 Holy + 1d6 Acid + 1d6 Electric + ~58 (been several months since he hit 12, so I don't recall the exact bonus damage) on a regular charge. Add 2d6 + ~30 for a crit... I was already popping large demons through their DR on crits, an additional 4d6 would be insane.with gunslingers cranking out over 900 damage around at 9th level with a touch attack i dont see this as a big deal is all i am saying.
I would love to see that gunslinger build...
9th level, so 1 iterative. WbL around 46,000 gp, +/- 10%?
Be kind, and assume free reloads, and double barreled pistols.
TWF & ITWF, so 2 sets of attacks with each hand.
9th level, so 18 Dex to start, 2 level bumps, +4 item, so 24 Dex, +7 damage per shot.
+3 pistols?
1d8+11+magical stuff per shot.
Assuming they all hit, with no misfires, and no crits:
8d8+88+8 x magical stuff
8d8 averages to 8*4.5 = 4 * 9 = 36 + 88 = 124 + magical stuff.
Nasty, but nowhere near 900 per round...
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You missed two more attacks from Rapid Shot. And Deadly Aim. And the qunslinger is likely Gunslinger 5/Fighter (Weapon Master) 4, so downgrading the pistols to +2 each and buying Gloves of Dueling saves you 5k and nets +2 to hit and damage on each attack. So even without Named Bullet (Awesome, but Impractical, as it only affects a single shot), it looks more like:
10d8(45)+70(Dex)+60(Deadly Aim)+20(Weapon Enhancement Bonus)+30(Weapon Training)+10(Point Blank Shot)
=235
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You missed two more attacks from Rapid Shot. And Deadly Aim. And the qunslinger is likely Gunslinger 5/Fighter (Weapon Master) 4, so downgrading the pistols to +2 each and buying Gloves of Dueling saves you 5k and nets +2 to hit and damage on each attack. So even without Named Bullet (Awesome, but Impractical, as it only affects a single shot), it looks more like:
10d8(45)+70(Dex)+60(Deadly Aim)+20(Weapon Enhancement Bonus)+30(Weapon Training)+10(Point Blank Shot)
=235
Can you Rapid Shot with TWF? I would think they were incompatible, myself, but I don't know. They weren't designed to be used together.
Can you Rapid Shot with TWF? I would think they were incompatible, myself, but I don't know. They weren't designed to be used together.You missed two more attacks from Rapid Shot. And Deadly Aim. And the qunslinger is likely Gunslinger 5/Fighter (Weapon Master) 4, so downgrading the pistols to +2 each and buying Gloves of Dueling saves you 5k and nets +2 to hit and damage on each attack. So even without Named Bullet (Awesome, but Impractical, as it only affects a single shot), it looks more like:
10d8(45)+70(Dex)+60(Deadly Aim)+20(Weapon Enhancement Bonus)+30(Weapon Training)+10(Point Blank Shot)
=235
Yes, they work together. One gives an extra weapon to use, and the other gives an extra shot from one of the weapons. the stacking penalties normally mean it is not a good idea, but when you are targeting touch AC I that -4 is not really that bad.
As to the OP's question I don't think the rhino armor itself is a problem, but maybe the damage the charging builds can do without the armor is a problem. I have never seen a super-optimized charging build, so I can't really say.
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Can you Rapid Shot with TWF? I would think they were incompatible, myself, but I don't know. They weren't designed to be used together.
Rapid shot requires the full attack action. Two weapon fighting requires the full attack action. I read it as you did, its one or the other. In fact I kind of thought they were the same feat except for melee vs. ranged attacks. I can see that others might not see it that way. TWF addresses thrown weapons but makes no mention of projectiles. Rapid shot does call out ranged weapons.
To the OP. I like mammoth hide armor, but I do see the dice running up quickly. That said it doesn't look like the hide's damage would be doubled on a spirited charge (weapon damage is) and 4d6 isn't much worse than two handing a weapon to power attack from a raging barbarian on a bad roll. Sure a good roll IS better, but average comes out about (I think) the same.
Can you Rapid Shot with TWF? I would think they were incompatible, myself, but I don't know. They weren't designed to be used together.Rapid shot requires the full attack action. Two weapon fighting requires the full attack action. I read it as you did, its one or the other. In fact I kind of thought they were the same feat except for melee vs. ranged attacks. I can see that others might not see it that way. TWF addresses thrown weapons but makes no mention of projectiles. Rapid shot does call out ranged weapons.
To the OP. I like mammoth hide armor, but I do see the dice running up quickly. That said it doesn't look like the hide's damage would be doubled on a spirited charge (weapon damage is) and 4d6 isn't much worse than two handing a weapon to power attack from a raging barbarian on a bad roll. Sure a good roll IS better, but average comes out about (I think) the same.
By that logic, rapid shot and manyshot would not work together as they both require a full attack action.
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They're misreading it. Obviously rapid shot and manyshot work together as they say "when making a full-attack action". It does not say "as a full-round action" in which case they would be incompatible as then they would be separate distinct actions.
(much like a magus' spell combat is a full-round action that mimics a full-attack action but it isn't)
They're misreading it. Obviously rapid shot and manyshot work together as they say "when making a full-attack action". It does not say "as a full-round action" in which case they would be incompatible as then they would be separate distinct actions.
(much like a magus' spell combat is a full-round action that mimics a full-attack action but it isn't)
Not sure if you were disagreeing with me there, but..
This is why TWF works with rapid shot, because TWF is still a full attack action. There's no usage of 'as a full round action' in the TWF rules text, but the FAQ text specifically mentions that TWF is (or is part of) a full-attack action.
And those aren't the same thing because...?
Not all charges get you a many attacks. A normal charge is only 1 attack.
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And those aren't the same thing because...?
When people say dedicated charger they typically refer to a spirited charger with a lance. Beast Totem barbarian could 3 base attacks, 1 attack with haste, and any natural attacks (bite). So you are looking a 4+ attacks. So that's a bunch of extra dmg for 11,665gp.
You could probably, and very reasonably, extrapolate from the lance charging FAQ that mammoth hide only applies to your first attack.
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They're misreading it. Obviously rapid shot and manyshot work together as they say "when making a full-attack action". It does not say "as a full-round action" in which case they would be incompatible as then they would be separate distinct actions.
(much like a magus' spell combat is a full-round action that mimics a full-attack action but it isn't)
Not sure if you were disagreeing with me there, but..
This is why TWF works with rapid shot, because TWF is still a full attack action. There's no usage of 'as a full round action' in the TWF rules text, but the FAQ text specifically mentions that TWF is (or is part of) a full-attack action.
I was just very verbosely agreeing with ;).
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Yeah, I've got a level 7 lion shaman in one of my groups that regularly pounces with his rhino hide armor. On average it seems he does over 100 damage, though I think he just upped that with a pair of gloves. I have purposefully not mentioned mammoth hide to him. I had thought it was legal and didn't want him to find out about it. I'm glad it isn't. For him it isn't an extra 7 damage, its an extra 35 damage.
