confirming understanding of Kitsune feats


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

Kitsune feats Fox Shape, Swift kitsune shapechanger and vulpine pounce from Dragon empires primer have a little header at the top that say

a Kitsune may select from the followwing feats any time she would gain a feat

the 1st 2 are where the question is since the 3rd has the combat descriptor

would a kitsune fighter who gains a bonus combat feat at 6th be able to choose Swift Kitsune Shapechanger even tho its not a combat feat ?

I'm thinking yes ... but Im just wanting to confirm

Liberty's Edge

Only Vulpine Pounce has the (Combat) descriptor, so that one would be available as a fighter bonus feat to a kitsune, but not the other two.

Swift Kitsune Shapechanger is not a combat feat, so you have to take it as a regular feat at an odd level, and only once you have BAB +6, so most likely you would take it at 7th level.

Shadow Lodge

Like I said .. Vulpine pounce wasn't an issue as that is self explanitory

"a Kitsune may select from the following feats any time she would gain a feat"

is the line in question ... you gain a feat at every even level as a fighter ... yes .. its a combat only feat .. but your still gaining a feat ... Monk bonus feats or Wizard bonus feats would also be a question ...

so you see the conundrum ...

its the interpretation of what "Any time you would gain a feat" actually means

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

If the text meant "you can select this feat any time you could select any feat," it would be meaningless. So, I support your claim that a kitsune can select Fox Shape as a combat feat, as a Monk bonus feat, or as a Wizard bonus feat.


"a Kitsune may select from the following feats any time she would gain a feat" simply means "you have to be a Kitsune to take these feats". The feats themselves also list being a Kitsune as one of their prerequisites, so that might seem a bit tautological. But it's better to introduce the feats with that sentence than just listing the feats without any comment.

The Kitsune still has to fulfill all other prerequisites for the feat and the feat must be on the list of feats available for that specific choice. The only "list" that contains all feats is the feats every character gets at odd levels. Fighter bonus feats always have to be combat feats and other classes have a limited list of bonus feats.


It's poor phrasing, but your interpretation *really* doesn't seem to be the intention.


The phrasing of "You can select this feat any time you gain a feat" just means that these are options for Kitsune. It's unnecessary wording and doesn't let you take them at any times you couldn't before.

Shadow Lodge

Game Master wrote:
The phrasing of "You can select this feat any time you gain a feat" just means that these are options for Kitsune. It's unnecessary wording and doesn't let you take them at any times you couldn't before.

That's already covered by the requirement of kitsune. ..


I can see the argument, but I'm not convinced the slightly 'woolly' permissive wording is strong enough to overcome the much harder limitation on fighter (or wizard) bonus feats.

It would take something much more explicit to convince me it overrides any limitations on feat selection.

It's loosely enough worded I doubt you'll get a consensus.

Liberty's Edge

Seems pretty explicit to me. Are you a Kitsune? Did you just gain a feat? If you answered yes to both questions, that feat can be one of these ones.


I agree - "anytime you gain a feat" is pretty specific.

I would interpret it as meaning anytime you gain a feat, overriding the normal limitations on feat selection. .

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