Owner - Griffonest Games
|
We have just finished the Lost at Sea Adventure at Prime Time Sorts Collectibles in Crystal Lake and, because I am curious how the experience went for others, thought I would share some of my general musings about Organized Play based on the experiences of our 14 players (and myself as a player and organizer).
The Positive:
• More scenarios to play (how do you suppose these would play as normal adventures and rules?)
• Cool story
• 28 new characters for use in Runelords and Shackles base set
• Fun to mix it up with different characters and people
The Negative:
• No one has bought a base set. The store has incurred all costs thus far and will need to start charging. Using a base set in store also ties up the customer copy so that they cannot use conveniently at home or elsewhere for the scenarios included there.
• Many of the characters were unable to make any upgrades to their decks over multiple scenarios. Compared to the regular game, this makes the characters a bit weaker while some of the scenarios feel a bit harder (so many Shark Islands!).
• Miss a week, miss out on adventure rewards. This becomes increasingly harsh when your character is not able to beef up on boons.
• Found a magic leather armor, could not add the same armor to my deck because it has a higher number on it in my class deck.
• The class decks feel like they should have more options for building. Perhaps 1.5 to 2 times as many available cards that it came with.
|
We have just finished the Lost at Sea Adventure at Prime Time Sorts Collectibles in Crystal Lake and, because I am curious how the experience went for others, thought I would share some of my general musings about Organized Play based on the experiences of our 14 players (and myself as a player and organizer).
The Positive:
• More scenarios to play (how do you suppose these would play as normal adventures and rules?)
• Cool story
• 28 new characters for use in Runelords and Shackles base set
• Fun to mix it up with different characters and peopleThe Negative:
• No one has bought a base set. The store has incurred all costs thus far and will need to start charging. Using a base set in store also ties up the customer copy so that they cannot use conveniently at home or elsewhere for the scenarios included there.
• Many of the characters were unable to make any upgrades to their decks over multiple scenarios. Compared to the regular game, this makes the characters a bit weaker while some of the scenarios feel a bit harder (so many Shark Islands!).
• Miss a week, miss out on adventure rewards. This becomes increasingly harsh when your character is not able to beef up on boons.
• Found a magic leather armor, could not add the same armor to my deck because it has a higher number on it in my class deck.
• The class decks feel like they should have more options for building. Perhaps 1.5 to 2 times as many available cards that it came with.
I've been playing through Adventure 1 at three local stores in the area at this point. Only one of them is playing on a weekly basis and we've missed a couple of weeks. (Plus started behind schedule.) A total of 10 different players so far.
So far, we've been okay with sets. Only one store where we've had to run two sessions at the same time. The owner used his set and I used mine. I use mine everywhere else as the stores don't have a set available. I'm okay with that for now.
It was tough getting some people to actually purchase a class deck instead of using mine. That was an issue. ("I'm not sure I want to keep playing this." But then they'd show up again looking to borrow.) So a good thing when someone is trying to decide what to play and a bad thing when they actually need to buy and don't. Still is an issue.
While I'm seeing not a lot of upgrades if you continue to win, some of the rewards are allowing for additional upgrades. Disappointed that a Card Feat was not part of the first Adventure. It needs to be. We've had to replay a few scenarios (Lone Shark and Brine Dragon) which allows for upgrades but is disappointing because Lone Shark tends to beat on bigger groups. OP is definitely tougher.
[NOTE: One of the things that makes it tougher is that where solo players will optimize for success and even home play OP will do the same. The fluidity of OP at stores sometimes has an off-balancing effect of a party in regards to skills and classes.]
As far as actual class decks and the cards in them ... well, that's been discussed in a few threads. Quite a few of us find that the class decks aren't sufficient for all four characters and all eight roles. (There aren't any high-end crossbows in the ranger deck for the Arbalist role.) The difference of one card's level in one class deck in regards to another class deck is confusing. (Deathbane Crossbow is lvl 2 in Ranger but lvl 1 in Rogue. Confusing.) So that is a problem and will be later on.
No one has bought a base set. The store has incurred all costs thus far and will need to start charging.
Starting with Adventure 2, you will also need to buy the regular Adventure Decks. Does Paizo also provide them? One thing you could do as an organizer is to buy the required materials, and then share the cost among your regular players.
It's also important to note that Paizo only provides the base set to locations in the U.S.A. If you're in Canada, Australia, Europe, etc., your group must buy it through normal channels.
I also think it is totally fair to just be honest as a store. I'd have no problem as a player if the store owner said "In order to continue these nights, I need to either see increased sales (aka buy a class deck) or I need to charge a small fee to cover my cost." A dollar or two a night would be fine with me. Heck, why not charge a dollar or two each night, and also record how many nights someone came. Then at the end of the season, put your name in a drawing for each time you came and draw a name. That person gets the store's copy of the adventure path.
|
|
Oh, and addressing the missing of scenarios ...
The stores only allot time for one scenario being played. We've had to replay a couple of scenarios a different stores. That pushes it to the next week or next session. We're already an Adventure behind overall because only one store is playing through Jemma Redclaw this week. But we have some players that are not able to make it every time or life pops up.
I have no idea how I'm going to get make-up sessions done for people after successes by a group. They'll not really want to go back and redo the scenario. And two of the people that have to do make-ups are owners of stores. Can't exactly ask the owner of one store to have a make-up session at another store. So make-ups are a nightmare logistically.
I do like the idea that they have in Indiana of a "Throwback Saturday" where they are replaying past scenarios. I just need to figure out how to do this.
|
Our games are scheduled on Monday evenings starting at 6PM. Our store closes at 9PM. So what I've been doing is, if time permits (and generally it has), immediately run a second game after the first for somebody that needs to make up a scenario.
So far, it's worked well and I haven't had to schedule additional days for that. We'll see how that goes in the future though.
|
Owner - Griffonest Games
|
I also think it is totally fair to just be honest as a store. I'd have no problem as a player if the store owner said "In order to continue these nights, I need to either see increased sales (aka buy a class deck) or I need to charge a small fee to cover my cost." A dollar or two a night would be fine with me.
I started charging last night. Everyone seemed to be OK with it.
Heck, why not charge a dollar or two each night, and also record how many nights someone came. Then at the end of the season, put your name in a drawing for each time you came and draw a name. That person gets the store's copy of the adventure path.
Hawkmoon, that is a good idea. However, if no one owns the base set, it is not of much value. This is where I think promos that may only be acquired through in-store OP would work tremendously.
|
Owner - Griffonest Games
|
While I'm seeing not a lot of upgrades if you continue to win, some of the rewards are allowing for additional upgrades. Disappointed that a Card Feat was not part of the first Adventure.
Isn't the adventure reward for Lost at Sea a card feat + the ability to play Jirelle with the rogue class deck?
Scott, I'm glad that this has worked out for you, even if it hasn't been the ideal.
Have you queried as to why people haven't bought a Base set to play at home? Do they not have enough of a regular group to play at home?
I too think the class decks are too tight, but expanding the number of cards basically doubles the cost to the end user.
I've been playing with a regular group right now, but the current group are PFS (RPG) veterans and I haven't tested with a drop in group yet. Once I get more comfortable I may start up another location closer to my place (though I have a lot on my plate already)
OP is hard, and I do believe part of the reason is that the deck upgrade path is slightly weaker, even though the class deck characters are pretty strong.
|
|
While I'm seeing not a lot of upgrades if you continue to win, some of the rewards are allowing for additional upgrades. Disappointed that a Card Feat was not part of the first Adventure.Isn't the adventure reward for Lost at Sea a card feat + the ability to play Jirelle with the rogue class deck?
Yes! I stand corrected. I was looking at the reward from 0-1F without checking the reward for 0-1 overall.
|
Owner - Griffonest Games
|
OP is hard, and I do believe part of the reason is that the deck upgrade path is slightly weaker, even though the class deck characters are pretty strong.
Are these characters too powerful to use along side the regular base deck characters? I got a chance to play the alchemist from the Shackles add-on. He seems insanely good - at least at lower levels, so far. None of the class deck characters really stand out as much more powerful than that.
|
|
Yeah, I don't view the Class Deck characters as more powerful than average. Sure, some are certainly much better than others; the iconics are all very strong, while characters like Siwar, Wrathack, Lesath, etc. are a bit underwhelming in comparison. But I don't think the Class Decks were designed to be "better" than the base characters. After all, they were also designed to be used in conjunction with each other, so if you wanted to play Flenta or Olenjack in a home campaign, you could seamlessly.
Vika's ability has a bit of trouble sometimes finding a on-level bludgeoning - there are no 6 Bludgeoning weapons in S&S (there's 1 5) and in RotR, there's no 5s _or_ 6s that are Bludgeoning. Tontelizi has a 5 in RotR but no 6 polearms, and in S&S, he has quite a few 6 polearms but no 4s or 5s.
But I think that's okay in the sense that Lirianne's also going to be rather mediocre in RotR so there are just going to be some abilities that are way better in a campaign than others.
I wouldn't say they're "too powerful". Seoni's auto-recharge on her base role is very powerful. Lini's 1d4 +x is very powerful. Alahazra's recharge to examine the top of anything is very powerful. Just like CD Kyra's d10 +2 +4 with a Sword is very powerful, and Tontelizi's reroll on failure +1 die with a Polearm is very powerful.
Power levels can and do fluctuate in different situations.
Chief Technical Officer
|
• Many of the characters were unable to make any upgrades to their decks over multiple scenarios. Compared to the regular game, this makes the characters a bit weaker while some of the scenarios feel a bit harder (so many Shark Islands!).
One thing I think some OP players tend to overlook is this: while changes to your deck will come more slowly than in regular play, when you do get them, they're cards that have been specifically designed to support that class—and even better than that, they're often cards that you are selecting from a couple different choices. It's like playing a video game where the stuff you defeat drops loot: one game might drop lots of random stuff which is less likely to be useful to you, while another might only drop stuff that the game knows you can use. Home play is the former, and OP is the latter. If we gave you lots of drops that were all tailored to you, you'd be too powerful for the opponents we have to throw at you.
|
|
I suppose. A lot of the card choices aren't terribly exciting though. For example, when I look ahead at Items in my Fighter Deck, I see very little that's worth upgrading up until AD3.
Or the Spell selection for Flenta in the Fighter box is very different than what I would prefer to take if I were playing her in either Runelords or Skull & Shackles.
That's why I think more options is better, and why perhaps dropping to 3 characters instead of 4 gives a bit more room and flexibility for card selection.
