In our recent group of friends we are all a bit chaotic and down work together very well and by doing so our characters are the same so two of us decided to retire our characters as NPCs and decided to roll characters that contribute to the party.
Ive decided to take on the dedicated tank/healer and I'm fond of paladins so that was an easy choice.
The two archetypes I was looking at were the 3rd Party class Dragon Knight and then Tranquil Guardian as the other.
Dragon Knight : http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/necromancer s-of-the-northwest---paladin-archetypes/dragon-knight
Tranquil Guardian : http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-aasimar/tranqu il-guardian
The reason why Dragon Knight appeals to me is because i can build Talos from the Elder Scrolls lore and have Akatosh as my deity (Got the okay from the DM) and eventually take the God Challenge to become essentially a Nine Divine.
Tranquil Guardian because Aasimar being one of my favorite races i love the idea of a paladin that does not rely on Smite to get his/her job done.
What would be the best for the roll im looking for between the two?
(I will consider other archetypes but im almost already set on either)
What Feats should I focus on?
What gear should I focus on?
I want to break the paladin class. We already have broken characters and I will need to have a character someone broken to keep up.
Ive decided to take on the dedicated tank/healer and I'm fond of paladins so that was an easy choice.
Well, if you're looking for a "tank" as an MMO archetype, you're going to want ways to encourage enemies to come after you instead of your ally.
To this end, I'd incorporate the following things:
Traits:
Adopted(Halfling) > Helpful (+4 instead of +2 for aid another actions)
OR
Fools for Friends (+1 aid another, and +1 saves vs charm, compulsion)
Feats:
Combat Reflexes (gain dex number of opportunity attacks)
Bodyguard (use opportunity attack to give ally +2 AC or +4 with helpful)
Saving Shield (take the hit yourself)
Saving shield is one of the best "tank" feats in the game for its ability to let you sponge attacks for your allies, but this path is feat intensive. Also, if you're going halfling you can take the feats Cautious Fighter, Blundering Defense, and Crane Style to further increase your ability to protect your allies. All this said, if you're looking just to be a "tank" as in HUGE HP blob on the battlefield, you can probably ignore this post and go Power Attack and go generic.
Ive decided to take on the dedicated tank/healer and I'm fond of paladins so that was an easy choice.Well, if you're looking for a "tank" as an MMO archetype, you're going to want ways to encourage enemies to come after you instead of your ally.
To this end, I'd incorporate the following things:
Traits:
Adopted(Halfling) > Helpful (+4 instead of +2 for aid another actions)
OR
Fools for Friends (+1 aid another, and +1 saves vs charm, compulsion)Feats:
Combat Reflexes (gain dex number of opportunity attacks)
Bodyguard (use opportunity attack to give ally +2 AC or +4 with helpful)
Saving Shield (take the hit yourself)Saving shield is one of the best "tank" feats in the game for its ability to let you sponge attacks for your allies, but this path is feat intensive. Also, if you're going halfling you can take the feats Cautious Fighter, Blundering Defense, and Crane Style to further increase your ability to protect your allies. All this said, if you're looking just to be a "tank" as in HUGE HP blob on the battlefield, you can probably ignore this post and go Power Attack and go generic.
Don't forget the "Swift Aid" feat! And consider a 3-level dip in Cavalier of the Order of the Dragon.
The order of the Dragon fits quite well along with the fools for friends. I'm not a fan of halflings but those traits are quite nice.
If I went the talos route i would ask if i can add the Half dragon template to Human so i can be as close to the Ninth divine as possible.
Although i don't want wings. That may pose a problem.
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Do a search for Oradin, it can be a very effective tank/healer combination. Probably more so than what you are looking at. Essentially using life links you "soak" up the party members damage every round and use swift action Lay on hands to heal yourself as needed, leaving your full actions/standard+movement actions free to do as you wish.
Im entering at level 12. In a level 40 campaign.
How should i spread this out.
Which prestige class would fit an Oradin build. Because that Life Link ability fits so well with tanking damage.
I was thinking Stalwart Defender.
Im entering at level 12. In a level 40 campaign.
I hope you have EPIC loot, because that's not even high enough level that you'd be a henchman for a 40th L character with leadership...
-TimD
Ahhhhhh level 40 character with leadership...... Terrifying.
Yes there will be Epic Loot and Mythic feats.
What is the use of a tank when people can cast many, many Time Stops per day? Or, you know, Gate in a disposable tank every fight.
In our party we have:
Kitsune Bard/Rouge
Drow Cleric/Shadowdancer (Learning the Lych Template)
Half Elf Monk/Druid/Wildshaper
Blood Orc (Who was raised by Dwarves) Barbarian/Frenzied Barbarian/Hulking Barbarian
Human Wizard
Balgin, I have recently been looking over this build at the moment for the Oradin.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257365-PF-Oradin-Mini-Guide-O r-How-to-be-a-Healbot-minus-the-bot
I also recently got the okay to be an Angelkin Aasimar that has the Half Dragon Template.
Backstory is that my mother was raped by a red dragon.
So i go into the order to exact revenge hunting all Evil dragons.
As for the Classes the DM said i can put the Tranquil Guardian Archetype and the Dragon Knight Archetype together having Dragon Knight Overrule Divine bond.
Dragon Knight : http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/necromancer s-of-the-northwest---paladin-archetypes/dragon-knight
Tranquil Guardian : http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-aasimar/tranqu il-guardian
So I will be a Tranquil Dragon Knight who is a follower of Smiad the Dragonslayer.
I will also have levels into Oracle (Life) to have Life link.
If you read that build it works like a HP Battery where i will take most of the damage for the party.
Fusing those two archetypes were the only way of me seeing having fun as a tank.
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Im highly against the goading option of trying to mimic a provoke. If it fails or they cant hit your high AC a smart creature will ignore you.
Aggro in pathfinder is non existant. The best way to be a tank is stand up front and do enough damage to piss the thing off with.
Here is my build suggestion for a decent all around paladin.
Half elf paladin. With ancestral arms- Bastard sword
Trait: dangerously curious
Level 12. 20 point buy
Str: 18, Dex: 14, Con: 14, Int: 10, Wis: 8, Cha: 16 (all level ups and racials included)
Feats:
Fey fondling, power attack, quick draw, Extra Lay on hands, Improved critical- Bastard sword, lunge
The way you fight is 2 handed with Sword. If you need the extra AC then quickdraw your shield for the extra defense. If not then go full ham. Remember LoH needs a free hand. Quick draw and a weapon cord accomplish this when using a shield.
Skills:
Use magic device and diplomacy are your bread and butter. UMD adds layer defenses to you big AC.
Items:
belt of +2 all physical stats
jingasa of the fortunate soldier
headband of Cha
dusty rose prism + wayfinder
cracked dusty rose
celestial plate armor
celestial shield
Cracked pale green ioun stone
necklace of natural armor and a Golems bane necklace (or adamantine sword works)
scroll library and a few good wands.
I know there isn't aggro but we still need a dedicated damage sponge.
Why couldn't I follow the path of an oradin and still dish out damage.
While still paying attention to these feats.
Power attack, quick draw, Extra Lay on hands, Improved critical- ??, lunge
With the Touch of Serenity and Serene Strike me passifying all of the monsters allies or a single large mob. Im pretty sure they would continue after me because im preventing them from attacking or taking any actions.
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Well your group seems to have alot of melee in it. If you did go oradin you could stick to back line tanking. But the orc and druid seem like they plan to be star upfront kind of guy.
To be honest getting all the bells an whistles is kind of boring. I remember mythic wrath of the righteous. There wasn't a boss fight that was even a fight. Round 1 they would die. This was in just an optimized group of: Archer paladin, evangelist cleric, god wizard, and a 2 handed fighter weilding a scythe and vital strike line.
The final boss of the campaign never got a turn....was lack luster...good for omg crazy moments...but we where not invested in the story cause we steam rolled it without a challenge.
I say make what you want. But by level 20 your gonna be wanting to go back to danger and excitement.
ANTAGONIZE ANTAGONIZE ANTAGONIZE.
It is THE tanking feat, giving you huge tactical advantage instead of forcing you into a reactive role. Forcing your opponents to take a certain action, WITHOUT A WILL SAVE is huge. And the DC is pretty much a sure-thing if you build for it (optimally a half-orc with Intimidating Prowess and/or Skill Focus (intimidate), but you can be more creative if you like.)
Sorry if I seem over-excited, but this is an awesome feat (some consider it broken, so consult with your GM before taking it.) I absolutely loved my half-orc intimidation-build paladin... although he definitely took a hit when he got reincarnated as a gnome.
That antagonize feat is wonderful. Although in the campaign there is an orc army causing problems or i would be an orc.
Hopfully being a damage and hp sponge for the group while trying to CC with Touch of Serenity would be great.
Look at the Redeemer archetype, it sounds like it might be the perfect fit for what you want.
Its quite nice but it requires a half-orc.
Hmm, well considering you're fighting an orc army and you're considering the Touch of Serenity route, I thought a half-orc who tries to redeem orcs (rather than kill them) and prove orckind can be good might be a nice RP schtick.
'Twould also fit nicely with Antagonize - the full-blooded orcs would target you first as a "traitor", but after subduing them you could show them the light and get them to abandon their evil ways.
Ohhhh that's is good. That is real good. If the Orc in our party didn't not try to kill every orc it sees i would do that.
So this is what i have came up with as for the Oradin Build.
I was the offspring of a Red Dragon and Aasimar and left amongst the Fey because I was an abomination to the Angelkin so I was left to the wilds as a child with a Heron Brooch and a note in Celestial telling of why i was abandoned and who my father really was. Learning that my father a Red Dragon took advantage of her and well raped her I decide to take up arms against all Chromatic Dragons and swear I will kill every last one till i rid the world of all Chromatic Dragons.
I am an Aasimar (Angelkin Half Dragon) of an order of Dragonslayers who follow the Deity Smiad, The Pitiless Dragonslayer.
The half dragon template I have is taken literal as in i have dragon features on half of my body.
8 Paladin / 4 Oracle
Str: 26
Dex: 15
Con: 26
Int: 17
Wis: 15
Cha: 21
I am having trouble finding a curse that fits my character.
Maybe its because it will be the first time me playing an oracle I do not know which curse is more detrimental than another in a game play setting.
Curses : HERE
I was thinking of taking Lame because I would treat my draconic leg as an emotional and physical burden that either physically and emotionally holds me back.
I do have wings that I can use to fly to overcome it but because they are also draconic I may use them in dire situations due to my embarrassment of being half dragon.
The problem i have with lame is if i want to wear full plate my movement is decreased to 15ft. That is detrimental if i want to move to the front lines and essentially tank. Did i do the math on that correct?
Wolfscarred face should work, you can reskin it as a part-draconic muzzle. Natural attacks are great for smiting paladins.
I didnt think of trying to work around the lycanthrope muzzle as a draconic muzzle.
I didnt think of trying to work around the lycanthrope muzzle as a draconic muzzle.
One of the great things about "fluff" is that it is malleable. If your GM is willing to work with you, changing the "details" is hardly ever an issue as the mechanics aren't changing, so "balance" isn't being altered.
Do a search for Oradin, it can be a very effective tank/healer combination. Probably more so than what you are looking at. Essentially using life links you "soak" up the party members damage every round and use swift action Lay on hands to heal yourself as needed, leaving your full actions/standard+movement actions free to do as you wish.
This.
ANTAGONIZE ANTAGONIZE ANTAGONIZE.
It is THE tanking feat, giving you huge tactical advantage instead of forcing you into a reactive role. Forcing your opponents to take a certain action, WITHOUT A WILL SAVE is huge. And the DC is pretty much a sure-thing if you build for it (optimally a half-orc with Intimidating Prowess and/or Skill Focus (intimidate), but you can be more creative if you like.)
Sorry if I seem over-excited, but this is an awesome feat (some consider it broken, so consult with your GM before taking it.) I absolutely loved my half-orc intimidation-build paladin... although he definitely took a hit when he got reincarnated as a gnome.
And this.
Just for fun, here's a good read on the topic.