Seoni is my favorite Iconic as a charisma based caster. My favorite character Darsadi Callinova is based off Seoni.
I can see Darsadi wearing stuff like Seoni wears for some event like a party, or other appropriate setting. She's a Sorc. If you've got it, flaunt it, and that is pretty much what being a charisma based caster is about.
But when I think of Seoni going to battle... trudging a swamp, riding horseback in a forest or exploring dungeons... her Iconic attire looks to me to be too fragile, unsupportive if not downright dangerous. I wouldn't see Darsadi as wearing, "HERE I AM SHOOT ME" bright colors. I would think something supportive of the girls would be more useful for keeping things from getting knocked around. If you are in aerial combat, things could get drafty, and then you have stuff flapping around in your face.
So "in city limits/ area considered safe", if you are a Sorc, look the part. Of course! But when out in the field, is it "puritan" of me to think "practical combat attire and gear"?
Flagged for wrong forum.
Anyway, on to the discussion: yes, Seoni's outfit is massively impractical to outward appearances, if you consider the activities an adventuring sorcerer is going to be doing. I think it's fair to assume that she knows this and underneath that flowing split robe she's buttressed up, and it probably has ties around her ankles to stop it flaring up around her in a stiff breeze (or the hem is weighted), and that she carries a full cloak in grey or brown to cover up the bright colours.
In other words, the look of the iconics is best taken as their preferred appearance, but that they're not idiots and understand practicality.
I'm curious Chemlak which forum you think this should go into? It is pathfinder related and a very general question....
Anyway - I disagree with Chemlak that she cares or modifies her outfit, and I disagree with you Romaq on the premise of the question.
My answer is simple - if you were covered in magical tattoos that came to life on their own or required being able to touch to activate - you'd have as many of them exposed as possible. As to practicality - real life has examples of people who stripped naked to fight - and in some cases these were the most terrifying opponents. These people didn't have magical tattoos - but there are many reasons to not care about armor (bravery, foolishness, religious, etc.) that give explanation.
Considering Seoni is really the exception rather than the rule of females portrayed in Pathfinder art it's fine to let it go.
I'd imagine that mage armor eliminates most of the problem with protection.
She's dressed that way to show off her cool tatoos. It would be one thing to have the flavor of a tatooed varisian spellcaster if she had to pull a 9-5 and hide the ink.
I'm curious Chemlak which forum you think this should go into? It is pathfinder related and a very general question....
Then it should be in Pathfinder General Discussion.
Sorry this is in the wrong forum. It is the "very general nature" of the question I thought had it go here.
http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1493 has an example of a woman with long hear in a cartoon superhero fight. It isn't pretty, though at the time she wasn't planning to fight as the group was planning to enjoy an evening out relaxing.
Thank you for the insight. I enjoy the eye-candy, and it is not my intent to be a prude. I'm just looking at the outfit and trying to grasp the practical application in a combat setting.
I'm curious Chemlak which forum you think this should go into? It is pathfinder related and a very general question....Then it should be in Pathfinder General Discussion.
I'm pretty sure Seoni is represented in products that fall outside of the RPG line - making this question not patfhinder rpg specific.
Questions about iconics and how they fit into Golarion usually belong in the Campaign Setting forum.
They forgot to include the sleeves of many garments on the character sheet. And note that this is the press photograph; she wants to look her best on that.
Thank you, Magabeus, that works. :)
Prestidigitation takes care of keeping the gown clean. Mage Armor and Endure Elements can take care of the rest.
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I do not agree on Seoni Outfit to be unpractical.
She is a sorceress.
She wears the kind of folkloristic attire I associate with an unorthodox wielder of magic that acquire magic through some sleeping blood heritage.
I think trudging a swamp is the kind of extreme condition no adventurer considers the norm, and almost no Iconic is designed with a proper attire for it.
I don't think it has parts that could easily fly to your face, even while flying.
the only real problem I can see is with very cold climates, but again, I think Seoni is not the only one who would need a change in attire for that, and I think is pretty much granted that extreme conditions require extreme measures.
But for regular adventures in a fairly temperate climate (which is the standard) it's perfectly fine.
Yes. Perfectly.. fine. =)
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I think trudging a swamp is the kind of extreme condition no adventurer considers the norm, and almost no Iconic is designed with a proper attire for it.
They're adventurers, the extreme is kind of what they do. As for the second part; I agree, hardly any of the iconics are really dressed all that practically. Seoni just turns the whole "dress impractically" thing up to 11.
Chief Technical Officer
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Her outfit relies heavily on magic. Also, this.
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Her outfit relies heavily on magic. Also, this.
Vic, you have no idea how much (bonus) respect you just earned. The number of executives in your position who would break silence on (potentially) divisive topics like this one is a small one. The number who would show their humanity and be funny*... asymptotically approaches zero.
I just wanted to take a moment to say that I really appreciate the fact that Paizo staff from the bottom to the top are allowed to be people first.
* While simultaneously saying "I get it".
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Sovereign glue would be a boon to the fashion industry, just sayin'.
Gotta keep those joints unrestrained to nail all those somatic components. Plus, she's Varisian, the Golarion equivalent of Sinta Roma/Gypsy people.
Having been to Europe, it's unsurprising that the women flaunt what they have while they have it, because they do not age gracefully. It's also amusing that in North America, "Gypsy" is politically incorrect, but in Europe, where they culturally originate from, everybody calls them gypsies.
Regardless, there's also the fact that wearing bright colors in the middle of a battle may follow this logic: They're gonna be looking for adventurer guys.
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Wow. One 48 word paragraph, five statements, three of which are wrong, and one of which is a sweeping generalisation of 350 million plus women
Sigh
This reminded me a little of when in the anime, Bleach, Yoruichi explained why the back and arms of the (stealth force) uniform where exposed. The reason was that there was a technique, Shunko, that creates energy that would destroy clothing over that area of the body. It could be that the magic Seoni could work in some similar fashion, or at least it could be rationalized that way.
Shunkō (Lightning) (瞬閧, Flash War Cry): An advanced technique which combines Hakuda with Kidō. This technique surrounds her back and arms with pressurized Kidō based on the element of lightning. The keisen uniform has no back or sleeves because they will rip apart when it is activated.
http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Yoruichi_Shih%C5%8Din
Maybe that'd make sense for bloodlines that allow the character to grow wings. Remind me, which bloodline does Seoni have again?
ADVENTURING is a highly impractical and dangerous thing, to be honest! Not every adventurer plays with a full deck and the universe is said to protect the mad, so... they have cosmic protection and hence it's compeltely practical to walk around in deadly environments with little more than a brightly colored shift on!
^My excuse for all the cheese going on with Seoni's garb!
Prestidigitation and Mending are also great for maintaining seemingly-impractical outfits.
Is it possible the clothing is practical for reasons other than protecting her from direct damage hits? Sometimes, practicality for clothing styles has nothing to do with damage, or even nothing to do with combat.
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On the "whe probably wears something else for adventuring" topic:
No she doesn't. If you've read any of the comics or really just seen any of the artwork featuring seoni in a combat situation, you know for sure, she actually wears that dress on adventures too.
I don't think it's hugely problematic since she's a sorcerer, she probably has an attitude of "if i get caught in melee, i'm screwed anyway". So why not just flaunt it while she can? It's not going to get into thwe way of her spellcasting and she's also not the type who's expected to be very mobile.
I worry much more about Valeros's long hair and exposed head. HE IS supposed to get up close and personal.
I still think that she will face problems when going through a forest with thick undergrowth, poison ivy, and stinging nettles - like in the very first AP (RotR). Not to mention sitting on cold (or hot) rocks or other rough surfaces (like logs or rough-hewn, unvarnished chairs). And let's not get into the discomfort of long rides on horseback and the dangers of entanglement with stirrups (or even the mount's legs - think of Isadora Duncan's death by scarf/automobile). And that's only the temperate climate discomforts/dangers. What about sand or ice? Flight or underwater environments?
So no, Seoni's iconic dress is not practical. Only an idiot would wear it for adventuring (as opposed to partying or just looking good around town). Luckily, she uses Charisma for spellcasting and not Intelligence.
And constant Prestidigitation to preserve her modesty.
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Magic fixes many of the average adventurer's issues.
Too cold/warm? Endure elements.
Boggy terrain? Water Walking.
Clothing not nearly protective enough? Mage Armor, Shield, Magic Vestment.
Gear's all mucked up? Prestidigitation.
Clothing ripped? Mending.
The fact of the matter is that the caster doesn't need to worry about the martial adventurer's basic maintenance issues. Which is good, because they often don't have the carry capacity to carry the gear needed for maintenance.
Seoni doesn't need heavy gear, so she's free to flaunt her tattoos. Seelah does need that gear; she's the one iconic who actually wears a full helm time to time.
On the topic of practical battle attire, it's not like Seltyiel exactly covers up either. And as a magus, he's a bit more in the fray...
Oh, I'm not claiming that some of the other iconics aren't equally stupidly-dressed for adventuring! :)
Roughly half of the proposed magical solutions are either higher-level spells or have limited durations.
And I have yet to see a low-level "anti-chafe" spell ...
Cure Chafe is a cantrip for bards and witches and an orison for clerics, inquisitors and shamans. Level 1 spell for paladins.
The fact that it is touch range is the reason why nobody ever uses it in public.
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Also keep in mind, that Seoni doesn't battle on the front line. It's worth noting that in the Pathfinder comic, at least in the initial issues, she's the leader of that merry band.
Also none of them come across as the brightest of people so yeah can see why she would think wearing it was a good idea.
I still think that she will face problems when going through a forest with thick undergrowth, poison ivy, and stinging nettles - like in the very first AP (RotR). Not to mention sitting on cold (or hot) rocks or other rough surfaces (like logs or rough-hewn, unvarnished chairs). And let's not get into the discomfort of long rides on horseback and the dangers of entanglement with stirrups (or even the mount's legs - think of Isadora Duncan's death by scarf/automobile). And that's only the temperate climate discomforts/dangers. What about sand or ice? Flight or underwater environments?
So no, Seoni's iconic dress is not practical. Only an idiot would wear it for adventuring (as opposed to partying or just looking good around town). Luckily, she uses Charisma for spellcasting and not Intelligence.
And constant Prestidigitation to preserve her modesty.
Well, given that we can suppose (from her dress) that she is somewhat vain, would this be more likely?