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So I took part of my day off the other day to sit down and look over two characters that I had in mind for retraining.
One, an oracle/sorcerer that I've decided to lose my sorcerer level, as well as retrain into a new archetype. It'll cost about a 1000 gold and 20 prestige - expensive, but manageable.
The other one - a bard 'street performer' archetype that built when I saw that Pageant of the Peacock was PFS legal. I designed the character around that build...feats, skill points, traits, giving up Inspire Courage due to the archetype, etc. (note: this is not a complaint about the loss of that particular masterpiece - it's now banned, so now I'm trying to figure out how to salvage the character). At 5th level, I just don't have the Prestige for this retraining. I simply can't afford it, even if I just retrain into a normal bard with less focus on Bluff.
Is there some post I'm missing about a rebuild on this particular PFS rules change. I'm fine with burning all of my existing prestige, if that's what I need to do - but with the PFS-specific rules, I can't afford it.
Am I missing something?
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I'm not 100% sure, but my guess is you'll just get to replace Pageant of the peacock with either what you sacrificed for it( feat or 2nd level spell known) or another masterpiece with the same requirements.
As for the rest of your build, I'm sure it can be somewhat salvaged. I can easily see a character being the best bluffer in the world being loads of fun.
Regardless, post your build here plus how much prestige/gold you have to spend and I'm sure the folks here will give you some good suggestions.
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If you don't currently have the Prestige to retrain, you can GM for a while to stock up on GM credit. It means not getting to play the character, but you could always go slow track after the retraining I guess.
I have a Paladin/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple that I never really liked the "feel" of, so I'm saving GM credit to retrain into a Bloodrager.
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The other one - a bard 'street performer' archetype that built when I saw that Pageant of the Peacock was PFS legal. I designed the character around that build...feats, skill points, traits, giving up Inspire Courage due to the archetype, etc. (note: this is not a complaint about the loss of that particular masterpiece - it's now banned, so now I'm trying to figure out how to salvage the character). At 5th level, I just don't have the Prestige for this retraining. I simply can't afford it, even if I just retrain into a normal bard with less focus on Bluff.
Is there some post I'm missing about a rebuild on this particular PFS rules change. I'm fine with burning all of my existing prestige, if that's what I need to do - but with the PFS-specific rules, I can't afford it.
Am I missing something?
This is one of the fallout issues I'm loathe to see whenever a decision is made to ban something. Particularly so when the source in question requires abit of a buildup to obtain. Through gritted teeth I say that you're stuck until you can manage to retrain.
Sometimes the free retrain guidelines don't do enough. It's not unheard of for people to just stop playing affected characters altogether. Its a sad fact we all must contend with.
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This is one of the fallout issues I'm loathe to see whenever a decision is made to ban something. Particularly so when the source in question requires abit of a buildup to obtain. Through gritted teeth I say that you're stuck until you can manage to retrain.
Sometimes the free retrain guidelines don't do enough. It's not unheard of for people to just stop playing affected characters altogether. Its a sad fact we all must contend with.
Except that a Street Performer bard is still viable in PFS even without Pageant of the Peacock. I have a hard time seeing how giving up Inspire Courage has anything to do the PotP. I could see regretting not having Knowledges or Bardic Knowledge, but even then the character is still viable.
There are many reasons people stop playing characters. Sometimes those reasons are immature. We shouldn't enable that. (Note that I'm not talking about evilaustintom. He has given me no reason to think that he's asking this for "bad" reasons. I've already made a helpful post, so I'm entitled to gripe a bit.)
I did not follow the whole Pageant of the Peacock discussion thread, but ususally when something significant gets banned (while it was legal beforehand), most of the time a free rebuild can be done.
Not so much, Woran. Original Post
The guide doesn't cover changing masterpieces... What should be done with Pageant of the Peacock, just gain back the feat/spell or get to make other changes instead.Just gain back the feat/spell
Venture-Captain, Netherlands
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I did not follow the whole Pageant of the Peacock discussion thread, but ususally when something significant gets banned (while it was legal beforehand), most of the time a free rebuild can be done.Not so much, Woran. Original Post
The guide doesn't cover changing masterpieces... What should be done with Pageant of the Peacock, just gain back the feat/spell or get to make other changes instead.Just gain back the feat/spell
Your search-fu is strong *bows*
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I'm not 100% sure, but my guess is you'll just get to replace Pageant of the peacock with either what you sacrificed for it( feat or 2nd level spell known) or another masterpiece with the same requirements.
As for the rest of your build, I'm sure it can be somewhat salvaged. I can easily see a character being the best bluffer in the world being loads of fun.
Regardless, post your build here plus how much prestige/gold you have to spend and I'm sure the folks here will give you some good suggestions.
Having fun RPing the character is not the issue - sure, I have a blast playing him. That's not the problem. The issue is, I want to contribute to a table with him. I can't tell you how many times when I told people, "I'm not that kind of bard," that I've gotten the crest-fallen look, and they quickly look around for another player who will contribute more to the table. At least before, I knew what I contributed - I was the skill guy. I've been around the world and back, and through magic, I generally knew useful things about everything. "Did I ever tell you about the time I rescued a princess from savages in the southern jungles? I ran into this particular beastie during that mission, and I can at least say this - stay away from those horns!" Now...not so much.
I am not at home to look up the character, but the build off the top of my head...Street Performer (which is decidedly not a great option for combats), the human racial variant to bump bluff, a trait to bump bluff, two feats to bump bluff, 1 rank in all int-based skills, two magic items to bump bluff, a couple of spells to bump bluff, strength as a dump stat, 16-19 or so Prestige...all I'm really built for now is a 'face' role.
I don't have a physical stats to be a melee combat guy, I don't have the skill point allocations to make a meaningful contribution to knowledge checks at his level (I think he was around 5th or 6th level around last Gen Con). Existing spells are based on trickery (illusion, charm, etc), but bards don't get enough spells per day to work well as a caster-focused guy. Without any options for a full rebuild, and the existing costs for rebuilding in PFS, I'm just not seeing any good options. I'll probably just have to trash the character - not a great option, but it appears to be what I'm left with.
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If you don't currently have the Prestige to retrain, you can GM for a while to stock up on GM credit. It means not getting to play the character, but you could always go slow track after the retraining I guess.
I have a Paladin/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple that I never really liked the "feel" of, so I'm saving GM credit to retrain into a Bloodrager.
I'm not quite understanding this. How would stocking up on GM credit help me out? If that's somehow an option, and there's a way to fix him via this, I'm willing to put him on the backburner...
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I'm not quite understanding this. How would stocking up on GM credit help me out? If that's somehow an option, and there's a way to fix him via this, I'm willing to put him on the backburner...If you don't currently have the Prestige to retrain, you can GM for a while to stock up on GM credit. It means not getting to play the character, but you could always go slow track after the retraining I guess.
I have a Paladin/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple that I never really liked the "feel" of, so I'm saving GM credit to retrain into a Bloodrager.
You would GM scenarios and then apply credit to this guy. You would effectively be leveling up this guy without playing him. Then you take the prestige you earned by not playing him and use that to pay for his rebuild.
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You would GM scenarios and then apply credit to this guy. You would effectively be leveling up this guy without playing him. Then you take the prestige you earned by not playing him and use that to pay for his rebuild.
Also, you accumulate a bit of gold with no expenditures, allowing you to pick up useful gear to help with the transition.
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You would GM scenarios and then apply credit to this guy. You would effectively be leveling up this guy without playing him. Then you take the prestige you earned by not playing him and use that to pay for his rebuild.If you don't currently have the Prestige to retrain, you can GM for a while to stock up on GM credit. It means not getting to play the character, but you could always go slow track after the retraining I guess...I'm not quite understanding this...
Yet, I would continue to get archetype abilities that I would need to retrain when going into a normal bard (or whatever), correct? That's five more for each level that is different?
I suppose over the course of many levels, it may work out. If, say, I went from 5th to 10th level, with 15 DM credits, that would be +30 prestige. Even ignoring the needless racial variants abilities, traits, and feats that I would be stuck with, that would cost me 35 prestige just to lose the archtype and go to a normal bard...correct? Is that what you're getting at?
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Some ideas...
A dip in Oracle with the Lore mystery has a revelation that allows Cha instead of Int on all knowledge skills.
Some feats that could make good use of your high Bluff bonus or Cha bonus:
Improved Feint
Betraying Blow
Wave Strike
Surprising Combatant
Osyluth Guile
Two-Weapon Feint
Some will be even nicer if you start taking rogue levels, which has the side effect of reinforcing your role as the skills guy.
Edit: if you go this route, I recommend the knife master archetype, together with Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, and Slashing Grace feats.
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Some ideas...
I'd considered those ideas, but as I mentioned, I have no strength (Str 7) - and my Dex is not really enough to warrant a finesse fighter (Dex 14). If I wanted to be an impressive melee combatant, I should probably have picked another class/archetype/physical stat array (Con 12). Feint-based fighting works best when you really capitalize on that (ie: sneak attack). Burning more feats just so I can hit a guy who is denied his dex, all for a better chance to do 1d6+3 (assuming I spend the 8k+ for an agile weapon) isn't really doing much by the time I got it (9th level or so?). In general, this guy is not much of a melee combatant. As for 'skill guy' - that idea won't work. I don't have the intelligence to know enough skills to be very broad-based (Int 12, no human skill bonus due to bluffing variant racial ability).
I appreciate the suggestions, though. Osyluth's Guile is certainly nice enough at higher levels - I've got a monk/paladin that uses it to great effect. However, I don't think it'll really help me in my situation.
One thought I had - if I go with the suggestion of DMing a bunch, and applying certs to him, I could just take sorcerer class levels from here on out. At 11th level, burn all of my prestige to retrain the first 5 class levels and feats into sorcerer levels and useful feats. I'd have an 11th level sorcerer of some sort, with no prestige...but I suppose it's better than just ripping up the character sheet. Seems cheesy - I'd much rather just try to keep him similar to what he was before (a bard)...but the sorcerer option looks easier to accomplish, since I won't keep getting additional archetype abilities that I'll later have to train out.
And, of course, I won't play the character again until he's almost 'retired' in any case. <sigh> Not many good options. It might just be easier to throw the guy in the trash, and move on.
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Your case with the bard is interesting; I'm comparing it to the synthesist issue, but then that's a whole archetype. Usually when a feat gets banned, you just swap it out. Technically the class didn't change (a masterpiece is essentially a feat-equivalent, you can't reasonably dispute that).
The relevant rules are in the PFS guide on pages 27-28 under Playtests and Errata.
Have a look at this thread, I had a similar build issue, and now my guy is amazing.
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Unless I'm reading the archetype wrong, your next 5 prestige breakpoint is 9th level when you get madcap prank. That gives you all of 6th, 7th, and 8th levels (potentially 18 Prestige) and whatever remains unplayed of 5th level to save up the prestige you need. How short are you?
Edit: And if you go with Fox's suggestion and dip a level of Oracle, that's another "free" level (6 prestige) before you hit your next archetype feature.
