Appropriate Level for Kingdom Building?

[SoulDragon298]

What level would the PCs need to be to start a kingdom properly?

[Dafydd]

Well, Leadership requires level 7

I think, by the time the PC are level 10, they would just need the actual space, especially if multiple PC have taken leadership.

Assuming a Leadership score of 13, you have 10 1st levels and 1 2nd per PC with leadership. If 2 people take it, in a party of 5, you now have a village worth of people. Once you got the actual fort, you get another 10 1st levels and 1 2nd level. (coming to 50 people total).

Keep going from there, most NPC rulers (in PF home world) are around level 15. However, none of them I am aware of had to actually carve out their kingdoms, they were born to the position.

[Phasics]

1st

Kingdom building starts from the ground up its never too soon to start. its actually provides a great reason as to why the pc are working together and why they might want to help townsfolk and the like. That early loyalty won will pay dividends down the track.

[DM Under The Bridge]

2nd, no longer completely green, get a bit of experience and finish a quest/adventure, then start. Otherwise I agree with Phasics.

[Whisperknives]

It completely depends on how you want to write your campaign.

We have played multiple world building campaigns, (Well technically we played multiple continent building campaigns, and after years had our own world.)

You can play it from level 1, where you literally stake a piece of land and run with it all Kingmaker style, or you can just start it at level 10+ and go with your people to found/take a land for yourselves.

[Phntm888]

There is no limit to when you can start Kingdom Building in a campaign. Kingmaker has the party start at approximately Level 4, but you've spent the entire first three levels exploring the hexes in your starting area already. If there's a point where it flows naturally into the campaign, start it there, or you can save for higher levels and have the land be a reward for performing a service for the king. Go with what fits into the story best.

[Dave Justus]

If they don't have some sort of patron providing an initial pool of build points to get their kingdom going they will probably need to be at least in the mid levels to afford the initial outlay to get a kingdom started. Other than that, anytime would work fine. Higher level rulers are only slightly better at running a kingdom than low level ones.

[Mythic Evil Lincoln]

The Kingmaker AP only becomes true Kingdom building at around 5th level.

This makes sense, most people are only going to flock to the banner of a veteran who is at least accomplished in life. 5th is about the earliest I think you can make that argument.

Leadership at 7th is another indicator that around 7th level it should feel right for people to start organizations.

Now, a literal Kingdom (meaning already built) is probably the work of a 10th-12th level character's successful organization. Remember, you'll be a duke or a count long before you're a king.

17th level is more like an Empire, I should think. At that point, the leader is so strong that they're likely to start looking beyond their borders for a challenge.

[JoeJ]

Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

Remember, you'll be a duke or a count long before you're a king.

Not necessarily. If you conquer a realm of your own, you become the king whenever you decide to call your land a "kingdom." If you're due to inherit a kingdom you might or might not be a count or duke while you're waiting; it depends on what the laws and customs are in your realm.

[Mythic Evil Lincoln]

JoeJ wrote:

Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

Remember, you'll be a duke or a count long before you're a king.

Not necessarily. If you conquer a realm of your own, you become the king whenever you decide to call your land a "kingdom." If you're due to inherit a kingdom you might or might not be a count or duke while you're waiting; it depends on what the laws and customs are in your realm.

I guess I was referring to the kindgom rules specifically, as they have names for the different territories based on how many hexes you control.