i have a rules question.


Rules Questions


The circumstance: I have a tier 1 archmage. He declares the following action, I charge and use a wild arcana mythic surge to cast color spray with a swift action. My first instinct is that wizards can't charge and cast a spell at the end of the charge. But as I discuss it with my player and research it a little. I can't find anything that forbids it. The distance to the enemy is 50 feet, the spell cast at the end of the charge is color spray. I'm now on the fence on this. My gut says no way I should allow this but my more reasonable fun guy person whose not trying to be an anal retentive DM thinks I should seek a second opinion or expertise. Anyone got input for this? Thanks in advance. :-)


Is he trying to cast the spell as his attack at the end of the charge, or, attack, and use a swift action AFTER to cast the spell?


Charge RAW:

Charge

Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. Charging, however, carries tight restrictions on how you can move.

Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.

You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge. Helpless creatures don't stop a charge.

If you don't have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can't charge that opponent.

You can't take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.

If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.

Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.

A charging character gets a +2 bonus on combat maneuver attack rolls made to bull rush an opponent.

Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.

Lances and Charge Attacks: A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge.

Weapons Readied against a Charge: Spears, tridents, and other weapons with the brace feature deal double damage when readied (set) and used against a charging character.

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The charge rules specifically say "attack", and not "standard action". Casting color spray is not allowed with a charge normally.

I think he could cast a touch spell, hold charge, charge on next round, and make a melee touch to release the spell though.


Actually, I recant.

Arcane Surge works as a swift action. You can use a swift action even with a full round action (I believe).

Therefore, he could charge + attack & use Arcane Surge with no issue. One of the many perks of being mythic I guess ;)


He can't use it as the attack at the end of a charge.

He may freely use it as a Swift Action after the charge.


Wild Arcana is a standard action.

Arcane Surge would work since it's a swift action.


So, here is the issue.

He can charge, but must follow all rules of charge. Including that he must move in a straightline towards the enemy and must move to the closest square from which he can make a melee attack. And then proceed to make a melee attack. After that, he could still use his swift action to use arcane surge to cast a spell.

This is important because :
1) He must now cast next to an enemy, and may provoke
2) His movement may provoke
3) His attack action may provoke depending on what weapons he has equipped

Alternatively, since arcane surge is a swift action he could instead just use both his standard action and move action to move into place and then use Arcane Surge as a swift to cast the spell.

Edit: Just noticed the OP specified Wild Arcana. Using that specific ability no this is not possible at all. Charge allows for an attack at the end, not a standard action. While you can make a single attack as a standard action, that does not mean you can make any standard action at the end of a charge.


You do not have to make an attack at the end of a charge; you may do so.

CRB wrote:
After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.

The rest is, of course, something to consider when charging to cast color spray. Honestly, a double move would be more appropriate.

Grand Lodge

blahpers wrote:

You do not have to make an attack at the end of a charge; you may do so.

CRB wrote:
After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.
The rest is, of course, something to consider when charging to cast color spray. Honestly, a double move would be more appropriate.

As blahpers pointed out, you don't have to attack at the end of your charge. What I think should be clarified is that even if you don't charge, you have already used up both your standard and move actions by performing the charge. So you would still have only swift/immediate/free actions left.


Does he want to do the swift action spell during the charge, before he attacks? I think a swift action could be used that way.


Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Does he want to do the swift action spell during the charge, before he attacks? I think a swift action could be used that way.

It can't. A Charge is a single continuous action, you can't break it up to do something else in the middle.

You charge, and as part of that you attack or don't, then you can Swift Action.

Grand Lodge

What is the point of the action, as stated. It makes no sense, unless the Archmage in question wishes to also make a melee attack. If the intent is just to double move to the target and cast a spell then why not do that? What's the purpose of making it a charge?

It's perfectly reasonable to just double move up to the target then use a Swift Action to cast Color Spray. That has nothing to do with a Charge action. Huh?

P.s. Personally, if faced with an archmage prone to taking that sort of action, I'd really hope the archmage is an enemy, not an ally. If it's an ally then it's a rather incompetent ally who is unlikely to very helpful. If it's an enemy archmage that's great because, you know, easy XP ...


My archmage IS prone to that kind of action, but it's more like this:

I cast Vampiric Touch.
I use Fleet Strike (trickster attack, I'm dual path).

I attack this guy 30 feet away with Vampiric Touch.
Miss? Ok, I take my free attack from the spell cast and roll again.

Wind up back in my starting position.

And still have a move action left over.

Dual Path Trickster + Path Dabbling (Armor Mastery) = no spell failure or check penalty tower shield / medium mithral armor. Makes my craft magic arms and armor worth it for the entire party.

Grand Lodge

Thanks. That somewhat explains the strange description from the OP. Seems pretty weak from a so-called archmage, though. Where's the Tiltowait spell?

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