Any tips on playing a bloodrager?


Advice

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Grand Lodge

Unholy water is 25g. It is not ignorable with Eschew Materials feat/ability. However, if you are gonna cast Infernal Healing your self, it is not a bad thing to have on you (see if your GM will allow you to buy 6 pints of unholy water for 1PP.)

Interesting thought, get an Imp familiar and harvest it's blood for the spell. Or the party wizard's imp.

That said, a wand of Infernal Healing is only 750g or 2 PP. You do not need to factor in the cost of the material for a wand.

Grand Lodge

Segovax wrote:
Gruugdúrz wrote:
Segovax wrote:
A wand of Infernal Healing is better for a Bloodrager because it is on his spell list so he can use it without UMD, and heals a flat 10 points outside of combat. I always recommend Infernal Healing to CLW for arcane casters.
That sounds like a plan. How much does unholy water or devil's blood cost for that spell? Or does Eschew Materials cover that item? If so, that's way cool for a spell!
Wands don't require material components to use, as far as I know, just to create. All you will need for PFS is the wand.

Okay, very good. Thanks.

I just thought Infernal Healing would be a handy spell to have. Especially as Bloodragers are probably prone to taking damage sometimes!

Grand Lodge

Dafydd wrote:

Unholy water is 25g. It is not ignorable with Eschew Materials feat/ability. However, if you are gonna cast Infernal Healing your self, it is not a bad thing to have on you (see if your GM will allow you to buy 6 pints of unholy water for 1PP.)

Interesting thought, get an Imp familiar and harvest it's blood for the spell. Or the party wizard's imp.

That said, a wand of Infernal Healing is only 750g or 2 PP. You do not need to factor in the cost of the material for a wand.

That's cool. Certainly the wand will leave open a precious spell slot!


Infernal Healing does not require a quantity of devil's blood or unholy water that has a price. Therefore, Eschew Materials and a spell component pouch take care of both. If you use Infernal Healing, you are assumed to be acquiring the necessary materials when necessary -- presumably it requires just a tiny drop of unholy water or devil's blood, and you use whichever you are able to find. As it is a component without a listed cost, it doesn't increase the cost of the wand.

By the way, what Dafydd said isn't correct -- the cost of a wand does take the cost of materials into account. For example, a wand of Firey Shuriken (no reason to make that into a wand but it's just an example) would cost 4510, rather than 4500 -- the additional 10 is the cost of the material components times the charges (50).

Grand Lodge

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

Infernal Healing does not require a quantity of devil's blood or unholy water that has a price. Therefore, Eschew Materials and a spell component pouch take care of both. If you use Infernal Healing, you are assumed to be acquiring the necessary materials when necessary -- presumably it requires just a tiny drop of unholy water or devil's blood, and you use whichever you are able to find. As it is a component without a listed cost, it doesn't increase the cost of the wand.

By the way, what Dafydd said isn't correct -- the cost of a wand does take the cost of materials into account. For example, a wand of Firey Shuriken (no reason to make that into a wand but it's just an example) would cost 4510, rather than 4500 -- the additional 10 is the cost of the material components times the charges (50).

Well, if Eschew Materials does cover Infernal Healing, that would be a worthwhile spell for a bloodrager, no doubt of it!

I think Dafydd was referring to the material cost per use of each charge of the wand. Once it's made, you don't need to spend more on each use, as such.

Still, whether by wand or by spell, Infernal healing is definitely a handy thing for a bloodrager. No questioning that!


Gruugdúrz wrote:

I was able to kit him better than I thought I could have:

scale mail armour, heavy flail, two ammentum (javelins), two throwing axes, backpack, bedroll, five days' trail rations, an explorer's outfit (for the fashionable adventurer), waterskin, and silk rope (50 ft)

So, he's actually lightly encumbered (just), and actually had a few shekels (41 GP) left over.

A second heavy flail is a good idea, if you can carry it. Then when you rage and the claws come out, you can drop your weapon to bite/claw/claw. After that guy is dead, you can charge the next guy without having to stop and pick up your weapon.

A weapon like a guisarme could help you out as well for when reach is helpful (like not provoking when attacking creatures with reach.)

Liberty's Edge

Gruugdúrz wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Some GMs may not allow both a gore and a bite on the same turn, for the same reason you can't attack with a claw when you're holding a weapon with that arm.

True; a gore and bite on the same round is a bit of a stretch. On the other hand, the bite might come in handy when not bloodraging. That one would always be "on" sort of thing.

What I had in mind was dropping the weapons once bloodraged and using the claw attacks instead, since they're both pretty decent, and allow you to throw in the strength bonus more often per round.

But there's still a lot of options everyone is suggesting (thanks, Everyone!) I never would've thought of myself.

I don't see why adding a gore attack with a bite is a problem. Gargoyles have a bite and gore attack with a single head, so why can't you? I've been planning out a demonborn tiefling abyssal bloodrager for PFS, and was planning on getting him a Helm of the Mammoth Lord at higher levels to accomplish this, seeing how the primalist is banned in PFS.

Grand Lodge

RumpinRufus wrote:
Gruugdúrz wrote:

I was able to kit him better than I thought I could have:

scale mail armour, heavy flail, two ammentum (javelins), two throwing axes, backpack, bedroll, five days' trail rations, an explorer's outfit (for the fashionable adventurer), waterskin, and silk rope (50 ft)

So, he's actually lightly encumbered (just), and actually had a few shekels (41 GP) left over.

A second heavy flail is a good idea, if you can carry it. Then when you rage and the claws come out, you can drop your weapon to bite/claw/claw. After that guy is dead, you can charge the next guy without having to stop and pick up your weapon.

A weapon like a guisarme could help you out as well for when reach is helpful (like not provoking when attacking creatures with reach.)

I was thinking of the guisarme, lucerne hammer and those other nifty reach weapons. The drawback is that because of their size and reach, they'll be more of a hindrance in tight quarters. I also wanted him to be lightly encumbered (a second heavy flail would mess that up), just to make the best use of his improved speed and all.

Grand Lodge

Deighton Thrane wrote:


I don't see why adding a gore attack with a bite is a problem. Gargoyles have a bite and gore attack with a single head, so why can't you? I've been planning out a demonborn tiefling abyssal bloodrager for PFS, and was planning on getting him a Helm of the Mammoth Lord at higher levels to accomplish this, seeing how the primalist is banned in PFS.

I think he's got heaps of options as is. Two claws and a bite, each with a decent strength bonus, ought to have him dishing out a lot of punishment pretty quickly. And getting extra attacks on incoming foes with Combat Reflexes should make him decent for holding the line sort of thing.

Horns would have been a nice add on to that, but oh well.

I'll just stick with the standard bloodrager, no archetype, and see how it goes. I think he should do pretty well. At least he looks cool on paper!


Deighton Thrane wrote:
Gruugdúrz wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Some GMs may not allow both a gore and a bite on the same turn, for the same reason you can't attack with a claw when you're holding a weapon with that arm.

True; a gore and bite on the same round is a bit of a stretch. On the other hand, the bite might come in handy when not bloodraging. That one would always be "on" sort of thing.

What I had in mind was dropping the weapons once bloodraged and using the claw attacks instead, since they're both pretty decent, and allow you to throw in the strength bonus more often per round.

But there's still a lot of options everyone is suggesting (thanks, Everyone!) I never would've thought of myself.

I don't see why adding a gore attack with a bite is a problem. Gargoyles have a bite and gore attack with a single head, so why can't you? I've been planning out a demonborn tiefling abyssal bloodrager for PFS, and was planning on getting him a Helm of the Mammoth Lord at higher levels to accomplish this, seeing how the primalist is banned in PFS.

There once was a thread about bite and gore that said monsters can have both as an exception but the head counts as a single limb for both.

Not sure if there was an official ruling or if the thread was just about some Paizo guy's opinion.


Infernal Healing is on the Bloodrager spell list? Can somebody please post a link to where it says that, it would save my bloodrager a lot of trouble if he could heal himself with a wand rather than needing to beg others to do it.

Grand Lodge

Advanced Class Origins lists it as a spell on the BR list.

Infernal Healing lists 1 dose of Unholy Water. 1 dose of Unholy Water is 25g. Eschew material does not cover material costing more then 1g. Devil blood may be another story. Ask your GM, and like I suggested, if they rule you can not ignore it, drain the wizard's imp familiar.


Thank you Dafydd. I haven't gotten a copy of Advanced Class Origins yet, so that explains it. I haven't had any problems getting a wand of infernal healing, I was told that devils blood has no listed cost so the wand is base cost. In a home game my Abjurer had to purchase 3 gallons of unholy water to make one, but I never looked into getting devil's blood.

Grand Lodge

Gruugdúrz wrote:


I was thinking of the guisarme, lucerne hammer and those other nifty reach weapons. The drawback is that because of their size and reach, they'll be more of a hindrance in tight quarters. I also wanted him to be lightly encumbered (a second heavy flail would mess that up), just to make the best use of his improved speed and all.

Usually there will be space to use a reach weapon. In PFS play things get too crowded for reach about 1 fight in 5 or 10. When there is not space, just drop it (a free action) and use your claw-claw-bite routine, which is perfect for tight quarters and far more effective than a flail. Or go with whatever feels right for your vision of the character, without regard to how effective it will be. Just a suggestion.

Grand Lodge

Gregory Connolly wrote:
Infernal Healing is on the Bloodrager spell list? Can somebody please post a link to where it says that, it would save my bloodrager a lot of trouble if he could heal himself with a wand rather than needing to beg others to do it.

Actually, I was taking a bit of a short-cut with the rules. I was using the d20PFSRD.com web site to look up those sorts of things. Partly to be lazy, but mostly because my GM, my kid brother (who's turning 48 this week) is the one who actually owns the books.

Grand Lodge

Gingerbreadman wrote:
Deighton Thrane wrote:


I don't see why adding a gore attack with a bite is a problem. Gargoyles have a bite and gore attack with a single head, so why can't you? I've been planning out a demonborn tiefling abyssal bloodrager for PFS, and was planning on getting him a Helm of the Mammoth Lord at higher levels to accomplish this, seeing how the primalist is banned in PFS.

There once was a thread about bite and gore that said monsters can have both as an exception but the head counts as a single limb for both.

Not sure if there was an official ruling or if the thread was just about some Paizo guy's opinion.

I think I should be okay without the Fiend totem. I should be able to do well with everything he's got now. I think the chance to get three hits (each with a strength damage bonus) in a round is pretty decent.

Grand Lodge

Gregory Connolly wrote:
Thank you Dafydd. I haven't gotten a copy of Advanced Class Origins yet, so that explains it. I haven't had any problems getting a wand of infernal healing, I was told that devils blood has no listed cost so the wand is base cost. In a home game my Abjurer had to purchase 3 gallons of unholy water to make one, but I never looked into getting devil's blood.

I was kind of wondering about the cost of devil's blood. I should think that's definitely a bit more than 1 gp for a smidgen of the stuff. With the possible exception of well-stocked emporiums in that stodgy Cheliax place. But Cheliax probably would be the most likely place to get some of the stuff for relatively cheap.

Grand Lodge

Rodinia wrote:
Gruugdúrz wrote:


I was thinking of the guisarme, lucerne hammer and those other nifty reach weapons. The drawback is that because of their size and reach, they'll be more of a hindrance in tight quarters. I also wanted him to be lightly encumbered (a second heavy flail would mess that up), just to make the best use of his improved speed and all.
Usually there will be space to use a reach weapon. In PFS play things get too crowded for reach about 1 fight in 5 or 10. When there is not space, just drop it (a free action) and use your claw-claw-bite routine, which is perfect for tight quarters and far more effective than a flail. Or go with whatever feels right for your vision of the character, without regard to how effective it will be. Just a suggestion.

Actually, I kind of like that suggestion. If it's only 1 fight in 5 that's in tight quarters, I may as well go for the Lucerne Hammer, which is lighter than the Bardiche and has the potential for doing buckets of damage with 1d12 and its brace feature. And I swapped the two throwing axes for a one handed battle axe for close and personal when not raging.

So, I've adjusted his kit as follows:

  • Scale mail armour
  • Lucerne Hammer
  • Ammentum (x2)
  • Battle axe
  • Backpack
  • Bedroll
  • Trail Rations (x5)
  • Explorer's Outfit (gotta look your best!)
  • Waterskin
  • Silk Rope (50 ft)

    Still leaves him lightly encumbered. Just barely. And 47 GP on hand, should he need it.

    That should cover most combat situations, I should think.

  • for incoming foes: Ammentum and Lucerne Hammer
  • for close quarters when not raging; the Battleaxe
  • and who-needs-weapons-anyway: raging with claws and bite

    That ought to liven things up a bit! :D

  • Grand Lodge

    You have no daggers. Might wanna change that.

    If you get caught in a grapple, a dagger is much better then your bite. If you have rage rounds still, the claws will be better, but you only get so many rage rounds a day. Also, daggers are just good to have around for things like nets and ropes.


    Why is a dagger better than the bite?

    Grand Lodge

    Same damage, but dagger has a 19-20 crit range. Though bite does do bludgeoning damage, and would be effected by an AoMF, which if you are going natural attacker, should get eventually.

    Actually, looking at the Toothy trait, it is piercing only. Dagger is also slashing.

    They can also be thrown, and as I said, cut through nets and ropes easily.


    Dafydd wrote:

    Advanced Class Origins lists it as a spell on the BR list.

    Infernal Healing lists 1 dose of Unholy Water. 1 dose of Unholy Water is 25g. Eschew material does not cover material costing more then 1g. Devil blood may be another story. Ask your GM, and like I suggested, if they rule you can not ignore it, drain the wizard's imp familiar.

    Material components with a cost must list that cost in the spell description. If no cost is listed, the cost is negligible and need not be tracked.

    PRD wrote:
    Material (M): A material component consists of one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don't bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.

    A dose doesn't mean a standard flask. It can mean any amount appropriate for the circumstances. A dose of medicine can be 1 mL or four tablespoons depending on what it is.

    Grand Lodge

    Dafydd wrote:

    Same damage, but dagger has a 19-20 crit range. Though bite does do bludgeoning damage, and would be effected by an AoMF, which if you are going natural attacker, should get eventually.

    Actually, looking at the Toothy trait, it is piercing only. Dagger is also slashing.

    They can also be thrown, and as I said, cut through nets and ropes easily.

    Oh. I forgot about the throwing bit for daggers. He can use his strength bonus for that. You're right too, daggers are bit more versatile.

    I made one minor adjustment, then. Replaced the one battle axe with a cutlass (it's got an 18-20 crit range) and 2 daggers, so he's still lightly encumbered, and has some close up weapons too.

    The cutlass should also do well for rope cutting and such too, since they're good for fighting on ships with all that rigging.

    Grand Lodge

    Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
    Dafydd wrote:

    Advanced Class Origins lists it as a spell on the BR list.

    Infernal Healing lists 1 dose of Unholy Water. 1 dose of Unholy Water is 25g. Eschew material does not cover material costing more then 1g. Devil blood may be another story. Ask your GM, and like I suggested, if they rule you can not ignore it, drain the wizard's imp familiar.

    Material components with a cost must list that cost in the spell description. If no cost is listed, the cost is negligible and need not be tracked.

    PRD wrote:
    Material (M): A material component consists of one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don't bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.
    A dose doesn't mean a standard flask. It can mean any amount appropriate for the circumstances. A dose of medicine can be 1 mL or four tablespoons depending on what it is.

    Hmmmmm...

    Well, that would sure make Infernal Healing useful as a bloodrager spell, then, if there's no material cost involved. Could patch himself up pretty nicely.

    Grand Lodge

    RumpinRufus wrote:
    Why is a dagger better than the bite?

    It is a bit more versatile than teeth.

    On the other hand, if it's just matter of straight up grappling, I think the bite would be better because you don't need to grab a weapon if your arms are being used for grappling or getting out of a grapple.

    Anyway, as things are now, this character should have no shortage of options in a fight.


    Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
    Dafydd wrote:

    Advanced Class Origins lists it as a spell on the BR list.

    Infernal Healing lists 1 dose of Unholy Water. 1 dose of Unholy Water is 25g. Eschew material does not cover material costing more then 1g. Devil blood may be another story. Ask your GM, and like I suggested, if they rule you can not ignore it, drain the wizard's imp familiar.

    Material components with a cost must list that cost in the spell description. If no cost is listed, the cost is negligible and need not be tracked.

    But as a component pouch has unlimited doses of unholy water you can just fill your flasks from it.

    Giving the stuff to casters for free in unlimited doses but not to mundanes is silly cheese and caster powergaming.

    Grand Lodge

    Gingerbreadman wrote:
    Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
    Dafydd wrote:

    Advanced Class Origins lists it as a spell on the BR list.

    Infernal Healing lists 1 dose of Unholy Water. 1 dose of Unholy Water is 25g. Eschew material does not cover material costing more then 1g. Devil blood may be another story. Ask your GM, and like I suggested, if they rule you can not ignore it, drain the wizard's imp familiar.

    Material components with a cost must list that cost in the spell description. If no cost is listed, the cost is negligible and need not be tracked.

    But as a component pouch has unlimited doses of unholy water you can just fill your flasks from it.

    Giving the stuff to casters for free in unlimited doses but not to mundanes is silly cheese and caster powergaming.

    Maybe just an initial outlay on the material components? Gotta have a flask of unholy water or devil blood on hand, which is good for X number of castings because of Eschew materials. That makes sense to my way of thinking, at least.

    So, in this case, I was thinking, you have to spend 25 GP for a flask of unholy water or devil blood. And that should be good for, let's say 25 castings of Infernal Healing if you've got Eschew Materials.

    That way you're getting benefit out of Eschew Materials without going too far with it. Hopefully.

    That way, you could cast the spell on the cheap, after the initial purchase of on-hand material. And it would be a bit more balanced, I think, because you still have the problem of losing said flask, in which case the spell itself can't be used.

    Of course it would create a wee bit more paperwork doing it that way.

    There's always these nagging little details, aren't there?


    1) If you have Eschew Materials, you wouldn't need any unholy water/devil's blood at all.

    2) You are using the unholy water to anoint someone - the amount used is practically nil. You are dipping your finger in the unholy water, the amount that you're using is basically how much sticks to the tip of your finger.

    3) It's not totally free, you're paying for the spell component pouch.


    As a GM in a home game, I would find it reasonable to require a person who wanted to cast infernal healing to buy unholy water (which might be hard to find in some communities) or devil's blood (ditto), and then have a supply on hand.

    However, in the spell as it is written, the amount of unholy water or devil's blood required is so minimal as to not require any cost. In PFS, the GMs can't require you to spend gp on it.

    Grand Lodge

    RumpinRufus wrote:

    1) If you have Eschew Materials, you wouldn't need any unholy water/devil's blood at all.

    2) You are using the unholy water to anoint someone - the amount used is practically nil. You are dipping your finger in the unholy water, the amount that you're using is basically how much sticks to the tip of your finger.

    3) It's not totally free, you're paying for the spell component pouch.

    Oh, okay. That all sounds cool. Should he survive long enough to cast spells, Infernal Healing would be top choice for a spell to learn!

    Grand Lodge

    Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

    As a GM in a home game, I would find it reasonable to require a person who wanted to cast infernal healing to buy unholy water (which might be hard to find in some communities) or devil's blood (ditto), and then have a supply on hand.

    However, in the spell as it is written, the amount of unholy water or devil's blood required is so minimal as to not require any cost. In PFS, the GMs can't require you to spend gp on it.

    That's cool.

    I thought it would make sense to have to buy some that stuff somewhere along the line before casting the spell. Eschew Materials is better than I thought. Makes up for the fact a sorcerous type can't have as many spells to choose from as a Wizard, I suppose.

    Thanks for that.

    Grand Lodge

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    Thanks for the tips on a bloodrager, everyone. I finally got a chance to play him at an official PFS game yesterday and he worked out quite well. Mine was one of four PCs present: my bloodrager, Gruugdúrz, a half-orc war priest, a dwarven barbarian and a kitsune fire-dancer bard. That wasn't planned that way, but that's what we had.

    I thought my bloodrager was a goner at first. Blew his AoO with the Lucerne Hammer on a charging enemy (rolled a 2!). Got hit for 10 points, taking me down to 2. Oh heck! However, it was my character's turn right after that. Did the bloodrage thing. There was a bard sing-song, which helped, and I landed both claws and the bite. I also rolled well and got a bit of extra damage through the bard's inspire courage. Did 30 HP damage. Didn't need a perception check to see that particular foe was definitely dead! He ceased to be! He was no more! He was a stiff! Or parts of a stiff, anyway! :D

    After he'd recovered from a wee bit of fatigue, we were attacked by a nasty troll dog. I managed to run around it to flank. No time for the claws and bite per the DM, so I used the heavy flail in a bloodrage. Rolled well again and did 15 HP and it was dropped soon after that by the dwarf.

    Then fought a pirate captain who was very agile. One round of bloodrage, one bite for 9 HP, and she was unconscious. We hog-tied her and then healed her some; a live prisoner meant more bounty money.

    I don't think that was too bad. Only needed three bloodrage rounds to dish out a sum total of 54 HP damage. Not shabby for a first level character who came close to pushing up the daisies himself! We somehow manged to get done in record time and exceeded all our objectives and got a tidy pay packet and a bit of loot. I used most of my cash to by a regular set of agile breastplate, with the GM's okay. I'll hang on to the PP for some more cool goodies later.

    Anyway, my bloodrager worked out very well indeed. Despite having rolled no less than six natural ones on various skill checks and all that.

    Thanks to everyone for all the pointers and suggestions to make that build possible. I couldn't have come up with a good one like that on my own!

    It was lots of fun! Thanks again, everyone!

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