Time Stop and Quickened Spells

[jimibones83]

Can you cast quickened spell while time stopped? I'm confident the answer is yes, but want to make sure I'm not missing something.

EDIT* To clarify, if I cast time stop and roll a 4, I have a total of 5 rounds. If I have a greater quicken meta magic rod, does that mean I can cast 5 spells, plus 5 delayed blast fireballs?

[Tarantula]

I don't see why not.

[Paulicus]

A single rod only works 3 times per day, but if you had other ways to cast quickened/swift action spells, then yes.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Though you can do that, but it wont help you. See bold text.

Time Stop
School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 9; Domain trickery 9

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V

EFFECT
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1d4+1 rounds (apparent time); see text

This content was created for the Pathfinder rules by Paizo Publishing LLC and is part of the Pathfinder RPG product line.
DESCRIPTION
This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, summon allies, or flee from combat.

You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature's possession.

You are undetectable while time stop lasts. You cannot enter an area protected by an antimagic field while under the effect of time stop.

[Claxon]

The greater quicken rod can only be used 3 times per day, but otherwise, yes.

Also, an important thing that GMs normally overlook is a player shouldn't actually know how many rounds he gains from Time Stop. Which makes a powerful ability, less overpowered when you cannot perfectly plan out your actions since you do not know how long you have.

[jimibones83]

Paulicus wrote:

A single rod only works 3 times per day, but if you had other ways to cast quickened/swift action spells, then yes.

Ah yes, but you can quicken as many as you can have the ability to none the less then, got it!

[jimibones83]

See bolded italicized text, directly after your bolded text

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, summon allies, or flee from combat

I didn't realize the duration of delayed blast fireball is 5 rounds, but all that means is that it wouldn't work on the first round. It would work just fine on the following 4 rounds. However, it is much more likely to be only 3 because the rod can only be used 3 times per day, though if my caster is 17th level or higher, I will likely have 2 anyway

[Rhorik Hogsvard]

Aside from the rod only working on three spells a day...

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

jimibones83 wrote:

See bolded italicized text, directly after your bolded text

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, summon allies, or flee from combat

I didn't realize the duration of delayed blast fireball is 5 rounds, but all that means is that it wouldn't work on the first round. It would work just fine on the following 4 rounds.

I overlooked that you were using delayed blast. You are correct. If they go off after the timestop ends you're golden.

However, as mentioned the DM won't usually tell you exactly how long you have.

[Starglim]

You can act freely for d4+1 rounds. You can take as many actions as you normally could in those rounds, including swift actions. Others have covered the limitations of spell effects.

[jimibones83]

I don't see anything that states the duration of time stop is unknown to the caster. The faster usually knows these types of things, except where noted otherwise

[Pizza Lord]

jimibones wrote:

I don't see anything that states the duration of time stop is unknown to the caster. The faster usually knows these types of things, except where noted otherwise

The caster actually doesn't know anything that wouldn't be obvious unless noted otherwise.

This means if you cast a summon spell that conjures 1d3+1 creatures and you're blinded or otherwise unable to perceive them, then your character doesn't know how many appear until something or someone gives him that knowledge.
Similarly, if your fireball spell can do 6d6 damage to anyone in its area, your caster doesn't know that it specifically did 23 fire damage to one particular target. This is true even if you, the player, rolls the damage.
In many cases, it will be obvious to the player or just stated but that shouldn't be construed as being character knowledge any more than a caster would know specifically how long targets leaving his stinking cloud are going to be nauseated (other than it will be from 2-5 rounds) or what result a target of his confusion spell rolled until he was able to observe their actions (either retching or babbling incoherently or running away.)

[Blakmane]

There's absolutely nothing to suggest a caster does not know the variables of his spells. That is purely conjecture.

[Pizza Lord]

Blakmane wrote:

There's absolutely nothing to suggest a caster does not know the variables of his spells. That is purely conjecture.

I didn't say the variables, I said the specific effect that results from those variables. It was very clear. A caster can know the variables that his time stop will function for between 2-5 rounds, but there is nothing to indicate he knows the specific rolled result. That is conjecture.

Stating that a character doesn't have knowledge of something that they have no way to determine is not conjecture, it's the default.

For instance, a target succeeding on their save against one of your targeted spells; you are specifically imparted the knowledge that they passed, even if you have no other way of determining it. Similarly a target that saves against an effect that has no other obvious effects gets a mental tingle or hostile feeling. That's a specific declaration of instances that would be considered, 'otherwise stated.'

So yes, your caster might have the knowledge that his fireball spell can do between 10 and 60 points of fire damage, just because your DM lets you roll the damage does not mean your character specifically knows that any particular target took 20 damage, or even if they took that amount because it was the full damage or was increased due to fire vulnerability from a lower amount or reduced from a higher amount because of fire resistance.

[Cap. Darling]

Pizza Lord wrote:

Blakmane wrote:

There's absolutely nothing to suggest a caster does not know the variables of his spells. That is purely conjecture.

I didn't say the variables, I said the specific effect that results from those variables. It was very clear. A caster can know the variables that his time stop will function for between 2-5 rounds, but there is nothing to indicate he knows the specific rolled result. That is conjecture.

Stating that a character doesn't have knowledge of something that they have no way to determine is not conjecture, it's the default.

For instance, a target succeeding on their save against one of your targeted spells; you are specifically imparted the knowledge that they passed, even if you have no other way of determining it. Similarly a target that saves against an effect that has no other obvious effects gets a mental tingle or hostile feeling. That's a specific declaration of instances that would be considered, 'otherwise stated.'

So yes, your caster might have the knowledge that his fireball spell can do between 10 and 60 points of fire damage, just because your DM lets you roll the damage does not mean your character specifically knows that any particular target took 20 damage, or even if they took that amount because it was the full damage or was increased due to fire vulnerability from a lower amount or reduced from a higher amount because of fire resistance.

I think this one is gonna go Down as table variance. In my game PC known the result if the player is Rolling the dice and that include time stop, and summon monster but not confusion.

[Chemlak]

jimibones83 wrote:

I don't see anything that states the duration of time stop is unknown to the caster. The faster usually knows these types of things, except where noted otherwise

Such as the duration rules?

Magic, Duration wrote:

Timed Durations: Many durations are measured in rounds, minutes, hours, or other increments. When the time is up, the magic goes away and the spell ends. If a spell's duration is variable, the duration is rolled secretly so the caster doesn't know how long the spell will last.

[Cap. Darling]

Chemlak wrote:

jimibones83 wrote:

I don't see anything that states the duration of time stop is unknown to the caster. The faster usually knows these types of things, except where noted otherwise

Such as the duration rules?

Magic, Duration wrote:

Timed Durations: Many durations are measured in rounds, minutes, hours, or other increments. When the time is up, the magic goes away and the spell ends. If a spell's duration is variable, the duration is rolled secretly so the caster doesn't know how long the spell will last.

I missed that. Skip my talk about table variance. And call it a houserule:)

[Claxon]

Chemlak wrote:

jimibones83 wrote:

I don't see anything that states the duration of time stop is unknown to the caster. The faster usually knows these types of things, except where noted otherwise

Such as the duration rules?

Magic, Duration wrote:

Timed Durations: Many durations are measured in rounds, minutes, hours, or other increments. When the time is up, the magic goes away and the spell ends. If a spell's duration is variable, the duration is rolled secretly so the caster doesn't know how long the spell will last.

As I said, most GMs overlook the rule. They shouldn't. But they do.

It's less powerful if you don't know exactly how many rounds you have to pull off your shenanigans.