What would a chaotic neutral character do?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I am trying to come up with action and behaviors that would demonstrate chaotic neutral behavior of a befriended, but deeply troubled NPC.
I am running a game for my son (10), my nephew (14) and my niece (16) and a few others. I started them off with Falcon's Hollow.

Falcon's Hollow plot elements:
In the Falcon's Hollow module, they encountered Jeva the female, tween, orphaned, infected werewolf/serial killer. She tried to lure the party, trick them and kill them, but was defeated. Instead of killing her, the party took pity on Jeva and tried get her help. They went on a quest to get her cured of lycanthropy and treated her with kindness and respect. Jeva's is about 13 years old and has developed a crush on the 16 year old Barbarian (my nephew's character) when he spared her life and treated her kindly. Slowly, her alignment changed from CE to CN. The party went on a quest to find Jeva's aunt and uncle in Ustalav. However, when the time came to part, the player's caved and allowed her to remain with the party, even though she is kind of young to be an adventurer.

So now the party has a CN, adolescent, female, rogue as a permanent NPC. She has a crush on the 16 year old CG Barbarian (nephew's character) and has developed a "sisterly" relationship with the 146 year old (young adult) NG female elf ranger (niece's character). Other characters include a NG adult, male, human ninja (player - 10 year boy); a LN adult, male, dwarf cleric (real life dad of ninja player); and a NG young adult, human sorcerer (my son). These last three are relatively new additions to the party and were not around when the NPC joined the party.

So far the NPC has run away when angry, gotten in trouble for stealing things from random strangers when she got bored in town, and viciously attacked anybody who insulted her barbarian crush. She is ruthless and is more than willing to kill anybody who annoys her, but she is trying to restrain those impulses for the Barbarian's sake.
I need some good PG 13, chaotic neutral behaviors that I can use to demonstrate this NPC's volatile personality. She likes (perhaps even loves) most of the other characters, but has a very troubled past (orphaned and abused). I don't want to derail the game, but I want to make her volatile nature apparent.

Thanks for your ideas.


I don't want to be insultive or to make light of the characters (quite cool) development.
but when I read your description my first though was: "Anime".
Now, just to be clear: I'm not talking about the "overabundance of panty-shots", "fetishistic clothing styles", kind of anime -frell that jazz.

But a young CN rogue character with the connections to the party you describe might be a good catalyst for some less-than-serious episodes about misunderstood intetions, swirly-eyed, big-sweatdrop-kinda stories,like:

The village they arrive in has some sort of prom (summer solstice celebration or similiar) - the npc wants to be asked by the barbarian, but afraid to ask herself - weird arguments and overreactions abound.

Also, all chaotic anime characters have a facination for some obscure sort if food or candy. It's obviously a rule :)


Excessive use of force in a situation where a group of kids bully 1-2 people.

And I mean kids like...age 12 picking on an 8 year old.

Pretty much anything more serious than smacking them with a sap will cause problems. Having the party walk in at the wrong time and misinterpret is also a great opportunity.

In the end, this can show that she might have decent enough intentions, but she doesn't fully consider consequences or who gets hurts when she acts to satisfy her own whims (thus, she is CN)

It also works due to her backstory, it can show how she responded to her past by taking the class that specializes in shanking kidneys. She is steeped in a world of violence, and it is not necessarily healthy for her. Violence needs to be tempered with purpose and measured response to be useful, otherwise it just causes problems (not saying violence isn't cool though- I would not be on the forum for a game like this is I didn't love the idea of a greatswords cutting a guy's head off... just that there should be a good reason to cut his head off)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Bragol wrote:
So far the NPC has run away when angry, gotten in trouble for stealing things from random strangers when she got bored in town, and viciously attacked anybody who insulted her barbarian crush. She is ruthless and is more than willing to kill anybody who annoys her, but she is trying to restrain those impulses for the Barbarian's sake.

Unless this character has committed a number of selfless acts which have gone unmentioned, what you are describing is not a neutral character, but an evil one. I don't care how you play your game, but if you think a character who "is ruthless and is more than willing to kill anybody who annoys her" is neutral, I think your perception of the good/evil axis is seriously warped. Now, maybe she realizes that her actions are wrong and goes out of her way to save puppies to make up for the "vicious attacks" that you describe...but based only on what you've written, this is a chaotic evil character, and quite likely a psychopath.

Hard to offer you PG-13 actions for such a person. I would suggest that if you really want a neutral character, what she needs to start doing is a few good deeds.


lemeres wrote:

Excessive use of force in a situation where a group of kids bully 1-2 people.

And I mean kids like...age 12 picking on an 8 year old.

Pretty much anything more serious than smacking them with a sap will cause problems. Having the party walk in at the wrong time and misinterpret is also a great opportunity.

In the end, this can show that she might have decent enough intentions, but she doesn't fully consider consequences or who gets hurts when she acts to satisfy her own whims (thus, she is CN)

It also works due to her backstory, it can show how she responded to her past by taking the class that specializes in shanking kidneys. She is steeped in a world of violence, and it is not necessarily healthy for her. Violence needs to be tempered with purpose and measured response to be useful, otherwise it just causes problems (not saying violence isn't cool though- I would not be on the forum for a game like this is I didn't love the idea of a greatswords cutting a guy's head off... just that there should be a good reason to cut his head off)

oh....actually read the spoilers...... why do I always skip module spoilers when it makes me look silly....

yeah, hard to make anything that would be more shocking than the default character. But if what I suggested had any appeal, dropping the ages to 8 year olds vs a 6 year old might be somewhat effective as an appeal to morals.


the secret fire wrote:
Bragol wrote:
So far the NPC has run away when angry, gotten in trouble for stealing things from random strangers when she got bored in town, and viciously attacked anybody who insulted her barbarian crush. She is ruthless and is more than willing to kill anybody who annoys her, but she is trying to restrain those impulses for the Barbarian's sake.

Unless this character has committed a number of selfless acts which have gone unmentioned, what you are describing is not a neutral character, but an evil one. I don't care how you play your game, but if you think a character who "is ruthless and is more than willing to kill anybody who annoys her" is neutral, I think your perception of the good/evil axis is seriously warped. Now, maybe she realizes that her actions are wrong and goes out of her way to save puppies to make up for the "vicious attacks" that you describe...but based only on what you've written, this is a chaotic evil character, and quite likely a psychopath.

Hard to offer you PG-13 actions for such a person. I would suggest that if you really want a neutral character, what she needs to start doing is a few good deeds.

I may have overstated her willingness to kill anybody who annoyed her. She has not done anything over-the-top violent to anybody who wasn't trying to kill her (which is a big step up from her original attitude). I would say more that she is trying to reform, but lacks self-control.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It also sounds like the ostensibly CN 13-year-old ex-werewolf rogue is beginning to actually care about someone besides herself, with both a sisterly relationship and a teen-crush-boyfriend relationship. If she is consistently acting to help and protect her new "friends" then that *is* a positive step towards CN and away from CE.

Now if she went further, and began feeling similarly protective and helpful towards helpless strangers, those suffering from oppressive violence and people in general, she might evolve into a CG perspective, or at least be able to hover on the "good" side of CN. Especially if such actions actually cost her something, or put her in danger or at risk.

I'm reading into this situation that it's also kind of a teaching moment with the young players. You're going to be walking them down the path between selfish and selfless actions, and hopefully getting them to choose selflessness over selfishness. Make it clear. Put helpless or innocent victims of oppression in their path, and see if they are ready to pass up an opportunity for personal gain so that the suffering widow with three children to support can pay her rent to the cruel Baron. Things like that.


She sounds CG to me. Not respecting laws such as "don't steal" is not necessarily evil.

Shadow Lodge

Stealing isn't necessarily evil, but attacking someone over an insult is not good.

Also, it helps to think not so much "what would a CN character do" as "what would this CN character do." A lackadaisical trickster is going to react very differently from a brawler with a temper. In this case, it looks like you've got a character who is used to being self-sufficient, hated, and alone, suddenly developing real relationships for possibly the first time ever.

I think it's pretty likely this character would feel insecure in these new relationships - would fear abandonment or that something external might take these people away from her. You've already got her reacting violently to others insulting the barbarian - how about having her try to scare off anyone who looks like a competitor? She might also react angrily to any criticism from the party, or go to great lengths to gain their approval, even throwing herself recklessly into danger.

Sovereign Court

Secret Wizard wrote:
She sounds CG to me. Not respecting laws such as "don't steal" is not necessarily evil.

Yes it is.

It's not necessarily enough to make a character evil, but the act itself certainly is without some pretty darned big reasons that it's not.

(Ex. Robin Hood's stealing probably wasn't evil - not because he was stealing from the rich to give to the poor, but because he was stealing back money which had been sqeezed from overtaxed peasantry.)


The paladin falls.


The idea of having a DMPC who is 13yo a killer and with romantic ties with other underaged characters is distasteful and a bad idea on so many levels. Sorry.


Weirdo wrote:

Stealing isn't necessarily evil, but attacking someone over an insult is not good.

Also, it helps to think not so much "what would a CN character do" as "what would this CN character do." A lackadaisical trickster is going to react very differently from a brawler with a temper. In this case, it looks like you've got a character who is used to being self-sufficient, hated, and alone, suddenly developing real relationships for possibly the first time ever.

I think it's pretty likely this character would feel insecure in these new relationships - would fear abandonment or that something external might take these people away from her. You've already got her reacting violently to others insulting the barbarian - how about having her try to scare off anyone who looks like a competitor? She might also react angrily to any criticism from the party, or go to great lengths to gain their approval, even throwing herself recklessly into danger.

I like this idea.


DrDeth wrote:
The idea of having a DMPC who is 13yo a killer and with romantic ties with other underaged characters is distasteful and a bad idea on so many levels. Sorry.

I am being very careful with this. She is trying to reform and is no more a killer than the other murder hobos she travels with.

As for the "romantic relationship" part, I am treading lightly here. I want to keep the activity PG 13 or tamer. I don't want to make my nephew (or anyone else at the table) uncomfortable. The crush aspect of the relationship mostly involves the girl staying close to the barbarian (riding on the same horse, taking the same watch, and generally remaining close by)and being protective/jealous of him.

If this were an adult game, I would delve more into the "crazy chick" aspect with all kinds of self-destructive and risky behavior (sex, drugs, etc...) that characterize a manic personality.

What I am looking for is behaviors that are not sexual or drug-related that would demonstrate a volatile personality (CN) and that would be reasonable for a 13-yo girl.

Sovereign Court

A potentially amusing activity would be her getting into gambling trouble, and her new more good outlook keeps her from just fighting her way out of it. (Think Chaucer in A Knight's Tale.)

Or perhaps she bets someone that her barbarian crush could TOTALLY do X, where X is something ridiculous that he in no way actually wants to even attempt.


DrDeth wrote:
The idea of having a DMPC who is 13yo a killer and with romantic ties with other underaged characters is distasteful and a bad idea on so many levels. Sorry.

Would you rather she have romantic ties with characters who aren't underage? O_O


blahpers wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
The idea of having a DMPC who is 13yo a killer and with romantic ties with other underaged characters is distasteful and a bad idea on so many levels. Sorry.
Would you rather she have romantic ties with characters who aren't underage? O_O

Kids don't have sexual/romantic thoughts or feelings until they are 18 silly.

I mean just look at the ages of Romeo and Juliet. No well respected adult has ever constructed a narrative involving teenage romance.

*Although the idea of this Uncle/Aunt saying cutesy things to his/her nephew seems like something very easily misinterpreted.


With the underaged crush thing, it isn't weird in and of itself... but it can be kinda weird that you, the uncle, are playing a character that has a crush on your nephew's character. I'll give the OP the benefit of the doubt and assume he's treading as lightly as he says he is, but I wouldn't progress the crush any farther than her being unnecessarily violent and brash with his character (not to the point where it would cause HP damage of course, just her doing what kids tend to do).


Arguing when other member do something that results in a loss of income for the group of otherwise sets them back, but proceeding to feel bad about arguing with them, perhaps forming a rift between the group, eventually forcing her to choose between her new friends and her old habits.

Whenever you have to ask what a "CN character would do?", just change the question to "What would Han Solo do?"

Also stealing. CN rouges do alotta that.

Sovereign Court

MelonFox wrote:
Whenever you have to ask what a "CN character would do?", just change the question to "What would Han Solo do?"

I'd say Han Solo early in Ep 4. Even by the end of that movie, he was shifting to CG.


The girl changed from CE -> CN... How?

Imho the main difference between the 2 is the motive behind...

The girl kill a guy...
The CG girl seek to redeem herself and pay some to the family to help them...
The CN girl seek to redeem herself, and pillage the family's house during the funeral...
The CE girl seek to destroy the rest of the family since her knife is already dirty...

---

The girl is in a serious fight...
The CG girl does her best to defend herself, tripping and disarming what she can. Hope for a peacefully result
The CN girl try to knock her opponent out, so she can loot him
The CE girl delivers as much pain as possible (multiple kicks to the groin), and smile when she finally kill her opponent

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / What would a chaotic neutral character do? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion