Regaining panache: Opportune Parry and Riposte


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Quote:
Critical Hit with a Light or One-Handed Piercing Melee Weapon: Each time the swashbuckler confirms a critical hit with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon, she regains 1 panache point. Confirming a critical hit on a helpless or unaware creature or a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the swashbuckler's character level doesn't restore panache.
Quote:
Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity; for each size category the attacking creature is larger than the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler takes a –2 penalty on this roll. If her result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses. The swashbuckler must declare the use of this ability after the creature's attack is announced, but before its attack roll is made. Upon performing a successful parry and if she has at least 1 panache point, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action make an attack against the creature whose attack she parried, provided that creature is within her reach.
Quote:

When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class, and you have scored a "threat," meaning the hit might be a critical hit (or "crit"). To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to "confirm" the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit, it doesn't need to come up 20 again.) If the confirmation roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit.

A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.

Those are the relevant rules sections.

Suppose I am a swashbuckler. I have 2 out of 4 panache. I am attacked, so I use Parry/Riposte. Suppose I have a die with nothing but 20s on it that my DM lets me use. I successfully parry with a natural 20. Can I attempt to confirm this possible critical even though it's not a damage dealing attack? Then I riposte successfully with another 20. It also confirms. The riposte kills the enemy, who has at least 1/2 my HD.

So... do I end this exchange with 4/4 panache? (start at 2, spend 1, regain 3)


Hmm, interesting problem. Since Opportune Parry and Riposte lets you make an attack roll as if you are making an attack of opportunity but it is not an actual attack roll that does not do damage, it's hard to state if you crit or not.

I would say in the case of the attack roll to parry, you could not crit that as there is no damage going into play.

The other portions, critical hitting and kill would give you a panache back. Thus leaving you with 3 panache after all is said and done.


RAW:
Spend 1 panache to parry.
Confirm the critical on the AoO for the parry. Gain 1 panache back.
You have 3/4 panache, so you can immediate action attack creature.
Critical on riposte attack, regain one panache.
Kill creature, and end at 4/4.

For me, it makes perfect sense to disallow the parry to critical because you are only checking if your total was higher than the creatures for the parry. But, to me, that is more RAI/logic than RAW so it would be houserule/GM call.

Grand Lodge

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Only if you're able to follow through with the rest of the rules for critical'ing. Are you making an attack against their AC? Are you doubling your damage? If you can't do those then you're not actually critical'ing and can't regain your panache.

Quote:
If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit.

So basically.. You can't confirm a critical hit with your parry because it's not an attack against their AC.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
claudekennilol wrote:

Only if you're able to follow through with the rest of the rules for critical'ing. Are you making an attack against their AC? Are you doubling your damage? If you can't do those then you're not actually critical'ing and can't regain your panache.

Quote:
If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit.
So basically.. You can't confirm a critical hit with your parry because it's not an attack against their AC.

Sounds reasonable to me. Similarly, what about a combat maneuver that uses my weapon? Can't crit because they target CMD instead of AC?

Grand Lodge

Castarr4 wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:

Only if you're able to follow through with the rest of the rules for critical'ing. Are you making an attack against their AC? Are you doubling your damage? If you can't do those then you're not actually critical'ing and can't regain your panache.

Quote:
If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit.
So basically.. You can't confirm a critical hit with your parry because it's not an attack against their AC.
Sounds reasonable to me. Similarly, what about a combat maneuver that uses my weapon? Can't crit because they target CMD instead of AC?

Only combat maneuver I can think of that deals damage is Sunder and you can't crit objects. What did you have in mind?


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Nothing in the critical section mentions it being an attack that does damage. Could you critical on a disarm attempt? For the purposes of regaining panache, using butterfly's sting, or applying the effects of critical feats such as Blinding Critical (not all at once, obviously, since butterfly's sting would negate the others).

Grand Lodge

Castarr4 wrote:
Nothing in the critical section mentions it being an attack that does damage. Could you critical on a disarm attempt? For the purposes of regaining panache, using butterfly's sting, or applying the effects of critical feats such as Blinding Critical (not all at once, obviously, since butterfly's sting would negate the others).

You mean except for this part you quoted above?

Quote:
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together.

I would not let any of those apply to parry for the same reason above about why I wouldn't let a swashbuckler regain penache for a parry.

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