the spell create a construct .
it says it's an ally, and can flank.
as a construct, will it gain benefit of a bard's singing ?
aura of heroism from glory domain ?
If you follow the belief that the spiritual ally is a construct (which is more than likely the case), it would not be affected by the bard's singing since:
"Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability"
Constructs are immune to mind-affecting abilities.
The same goes for heroism:
"School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]"
You'd be better off using heroism on an actual ally anyways (since the spiritual ally wouldn't last as long as the buff placed on it).
"Being a construct of force, the spiritual ally cannot be harmed by any physical attacks..."
So ya, it's a construct.
I've always disliked the idea of keywords.... Makes things easier but it can lead to some mind boggling turn of events.
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I do not believe the phrase ''being a construct of force' implies in any way that it is a creature of the type: construct. In fact, it is not a creature at all, it is a spell.
If follows a very limited set of rules, as it explicitly states, that usually only apply to creatures, but it is not one.
Dave Justus wrote: I do not believe the phrase ''being a construct of force' implies in any way that it is a creature of the type: construct. In fact, it is not a creature at all, it is a spell.
If follows a very limited set of rules, as it explicitly states, that usually only apply to creatures, but it is not one.
I agree with you. It does not create a creature. It simply produces an effect which counts as an ally and functions as the spell describes.
Well it strikes as a spell not as a creature and it seems really similar to spiritual weapon which is effected by inspire courage as explained in this faq
Rikkan wrote: Well it strikes as a spell not as a creature and it seems really similar to spiritual weapon which is effected by inspire courage as explained in this faq nice!
so, with our bard - this spell aint bad.
lvl 4 that can :
1) block a passage and cant be harmed
2) flank - adding +2 to the fighter
3) can reach the back area to attack the back caster
4) with a bard, has nice to hit and doing 1d10+3+2 damage.
5) threat.
it's a nice spell - not over powered but nice
is this mean that chain of perdition also receive bard ?
So I know this is really late to be writing about, but there are some of us who still play and enjoy PF1.
This spell - spiritual ally - opened a huge can of worms when an oracle PC took it and used it in her first fight, because she popped three of them into existence around a foe that had a reason not to move immediately, and then got trapped in a way that... a far more powerful creature could have also been trapped. I'm now trying to make some rulings that make at least a little sense.
That the thing can make an attack of opportunity - what is its CMD for purposes of using Acrobatics to avoid the spiritual ally's AoO?
If an opponent tries to move through its space, what happens? You can move through anything that doesn't completely fill its space; you just might have to make some kind of roll. You might roll Acrobatics to avoid the attack of opportunity. You might try a grapple or trip or overrun or bull rush. But what happens if you try any of those things, against something with no defined CMD?
Allies can move through it. Can they stop in its space?
If opponents cannot move through its space at all, then doesn't that make the spiritual ally the equivalent of a moveable forcewall that your party can pass through but the enemy cannot? This seems ... overpowered. Far better than, say, interposing hand. Even without its ability to attack, flank, and make an attack of opportunity.
What perception powers does the ally have? Can it strike things the caster can't target? Can it make attacks of opportunity against other opponents than the one it was directed to target? (How does it know?) Against hidden opponents? Against invisible opponents? Against opponents with concealment? Cover? Can you hide from it?
Does shooting at an opponent adjacent to the spiritual ally get a -4 to hit because they're in melee? Does it provide cover to opponents behind it?
If your deity's favored weapon is a spear, does the spiritual ally have reach - and does it still threaten adjacent spaces, unlike a spear, as the spell explicitly says? If the weapon is a bow, can the spiritual ally still make attacks of opportunity? Can it make melee attacks with the bow? If the weapon is a whip, can the spiritual ally trip opponents? What CMB does it use, if so?
A lot about this spell needs clarification.
And normally I'd have said "just treat it like a better spiritual weapon". Except that the language of the spell made my players, and initially me, _think_ it was an invulnerable and impassable force block. And now I have to backtrack, and they'll be upset.
"The spiritual ally occupies its space, though you and your allies can move through it, since it is your ally."
That is right near the top of the description. It implies things to the contrary for creatures who are not "you and your allies", but what precisely is that implication? That's really the core of the problem. The language invites you to treat it like a creature and not a spell effect - but there's not actually anything there to suggest that it is really to be treated as a creature.
But that one sentence just defies easy resolution. So does "The spiritual ally threatens adjacent squares and can flank and make attacks of opportunity as if it were a normal creature." Because a "normal creature" has a CMD and its attacks of opportunity can be bypassed.
And muddying the waters, the description says that the spell effect is "a construct of force". "Construct" is really unfortunate here because that's a type of creature, further suggesting that it should be treated as a creature, when the clear intent of the spell was just to be an upgrade of _spiritual weapon_, something that does more damage, and can flank and perform an attack of opportunity.
Oh, and one other thing - oracles can cast this spell, and they really ought to get to use their Charisma modifier, not Wisdom modifier, obviously.
The oracle did spend 3 turns and 3 4th level spells to encircle a creature.
Hardly overpowered.
The ally isn't a creature, "construct of force" doesn't mean that it is a creature with a Type of Construct. It means that it is made of force. That is made clear by the continuation of the phrase "cannot be harmed by any physical attacks, but dispel magic, disintegrate, a sphere of annihilation, or a rod of cancellation affects it". The sphere of annihilation and disintegrate that can destroy anything, but dispel magic, and rods of cancellation do nothing to constructs.
"The spiritual ally occupies its space, though you and your allies can move through it, since it is your ally." Based on that it doesn't occupy all the square, but instead occupies about as much space as a medium creature (if it did fill all the square you can't pass in the square even if you are an ally). So Acrobatics should allow you to bypass it.
Its CMD isn't specified, but can be calculated:
- it has no deflection bonus;
- it has no dexterity modifier, so it doesn't suffer a benefit or a penalty. As with creatures with Constitution -, it would treat its Dexterity - as 10.
- it has no strength, but it adds the oracle wisdom bonus to damage. It seems appropriate to treat it as its strength bonus.
- it uses the oracle BAB.
So the CMD is 10+oracle BAB + oracle wisdom bonus.
About using the wisdom bonus and not the charisma bonus of the oracle, see this FAQ:
FAQ wrote: Oracle: Can I use my Charisma modifier for cleric spells and effects that use Wisdom, such as spiritual weapon?
As written, those effects say "Wisdom" (because they were written before the idea of the oracle class as a Charisma-based caster), so an oracle has to use her Wisdom modifier.
However, it is a perfectly reasonable house rule to allow an oracle to use her Charisma modifier (or bonus) for cleric spells that refer to the caster's Wisdom modifier (or bonus).
Note that for spell written when the oracle was already a class, like Spiritual ally, the reason why it is a reasonable rule loses a bit of its value.
That's very similar to how I am ruling it. I suppose if it has a CMD for dealing with Acrobatics, the same CMD can be used as a defense against bull rush or overrun.
Diego wrote:
Note that for spell written when the oracle was already a class, like Spiritual ally, the reason why it is a reasonable rule loses a bit of its value.
Ironically, if the spell had been more carefully edited, I would pay more attention to the explicit reference to Wisdom. As it is, given that the spell's language is ambiguous and doesn't follow standard guidelines, I'm also comfortable houseruling Charisma for the oracle.
And yes, the three rounds did involve help - after two evoked spiritual allies were flanking the opponent, the oracle's teammate - a paladin - cast knight's calling and the target rolled a nat-1 on its save - and because of that and the wording of the knight's calling spell, it could take no action (because it could do "nothing except move", but it also would only "move in a way that avoids attacks of opportunity", which was not possible since it was flanked by opponents. Also, the whole combat was taking place on difficult terrain, and I made bad decisions for the monster. So - yeah, just good tactics.)
But I was envisioning some five-foot corridors and, without a CMD or any clarification on what "occupies its space" meant, and the implied contrast with "allies" moving through its space, I was treating the spiritual ally like it was a moveable wall of force that allies could pass through but enemies could not, and which meanwhile flanked, did damage to opponents, and performed attacks of opportunity, all of which is just a bit overpowered for a 4th level spell.
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