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They are refused docking rights at any harbor because no one wants a zombie croc. Now and then, they have to fight off some Pharasma inquisitors who want to destroy the abomination. Maybe the croc gets loose and goes around eating fishermen while the players are in town.
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I doubt they would be refused at all ports. The best thing you could do is have other people start copying them. Maybe not to as great an effect, but it would add an in universe arms race that would come from a fresh new idea. Some other boat hires a necromancer to make their boat move, and he can start hiring himself out to the PCs rivals.
I foresee issues with maintaining control over the zombie, particularly while the PCs are away. People will do stupid things like play "poke the zombie on a bet" and then the zombie responds without the PCs to keep things in check.
And whether it happens or not, some NPC will likely expect it and confront the PCs about the danger.
Don't fast zombies only get a land speed increase? How is it getting a base swim speed of 30ft? Remember that zombies lose all feats of the base creature so it does not get Run. Zombies also lose all skill ranks, so no bonus to swim from that. Plus there are several ships that can still go faster than 120ft. This doesn't seem like a real problem to me, I might even consider it a hindrance.
However, a fast zombie dire croc carrying a ship ON LAND, now that is something I would be worried about.
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Okay so a dire crocodile has a strength score of 37 and is a gargantuan quadruped.
Str 27 is 346 lb for light load. So str 37 is 1384 lb. For being a gargantuan quadruped you multiply by 12, 16608 lbs.
Mule back cords - Str 45 effective - 51072
Heavy lift belt - 153216 lb
So, patently the idea that they can put their ship on this crocodile's back and carry it along with 100 tons of cargo is false, seeing as 100 tons would be 200000 lb.
An example of 56 ft long boat I found had a weight of 60-70 tons. Or 120,000 - 140,000 lbs. I believe the common length of the ship in Skull and Shackles is 90 ft. So maybe 180,000. Even with everyhting the crocodile has, it is more than his light load.
Also, crocodiles only have the following slots: armor, belt (saddle), chest, eyes, headband, neck. So you could deny the muscleback cords on those grounds (shoulder slot). Also the belt slot should only be usuable for a saddle, not actual belts like the heavyload belt. Again, your decision.
I'm mean sure, it might work okay...if you ignore the rules.
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I doubt they would be refused at all ports. The best thing you could do is have other people start copying them. Maybe not to as great an effect, but it would add an in universe arms race that would come from a fresh new idea. Some other boat hires a necromancer to make their boat move, and he can start hiring himself out to the PCs rivals.
Mergy, this is so good. It puts in all the fun extra encounters you may want and adds consequences without wrecking the story.
As an added suggestion, Pathfinder seas are filled with many aggressive territorial creatures of vast size. Add a % die to your wandering monster encounters while at sea. 1 and 100 draw a hostile kraken or something that attacks the motor only.
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Okay so a dire crocodile has a strength score of 37 and is a gargantuan quadruped.
Str 27 is 346 lb for light load. So str 37 is 1384 lb. For being a gargantuan quadruped you multiply by 12, 16608 lbs.
Mule back cords - Str 45 effective - 51072
Heavy lift belt - 153216 lbSo, patently the idea that they can put their ship on this crocodile's back and carry it along with 100 tons of cargo is false, seeing as 100 tons would be 200000 lb.
An example of 56 ft long boat I found had a weight of 60-70 tons. Or 120,000 - 140,000 lbs. I believe the common length of the ship in Skull and Shackles is 90 ft. So maybe 180,000. Even with everyhting the crocodile has, it is more than his light load.
Also, crocodiles only have the following slots: armor, belt (saddle), chest, eyes, headband, neck. So you could deny the muscleback cords on those grounds (shoulder slot). Also the belt slot should only be usuable for a saddle, not actual belts like the heavyload belt. Again, your decision.
I'm mean sure, it might work okay...if you ignore the rules.
I'm not sure if the rules account for this, but it is much easier to lift something submerged in water than it is to lift something off the ground. It's also easier to pull a boat than to drag a wagon due to far less friction.
Lastly, item slots relate to animal companions and familiar. There's also nothing stopping them from changing the item's slot.
Don't fast zombies only get a land speed increase? How is it getting a base swim speed of 30ft? Remember that zombies lose all feats of the base creature so it does not get Run. Zombies also lose all skill ranks, so no bonus to swim from that. Plus there are several ships that can still go faster than 120ft. This doesn't seem like a real problem to me, I might even consider it a hindrance.
However, a fast zombie dire croc carrying a ship ON LAND, now that is something I would be worried about.
Actually, a fast zombie keeps movement speeds, and a dire croc has a base swim spd of 30'.
Further, the bonus to swim from having a swim speed isn't removed as that is a bonus, so it's swim skill is reduced but not entirely.
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An advantage here over other ships,
the zombie croc doesn't need wind, nor does it need to tack at an angle to go against the wind, so in the case of pursuit by an enemy ship, the PCs can go directly against the wind and the pursuers will have to tack to follow, which slows them down and forces them away from the PCs ship.
(for the ininformed, tacking is the zigzagging motion [about 45 degrees to the wind] that sailing ships need to do in order to travel up-wind)
I'm not sure if the rules account for this, but it is much easier to lift something submerged in water than it is to lift something off the ground. It's also easier to pull a boat than to drag a wagon due to far less friction.
Lastly, item slots relate to animal companions and familiar. There's also nothing stopping them from changing the item's slot.
The rules don't account for it, but I agree that it would be easier for the crocodile to pull the boat in water so that the ability to lift isn't really the issue there, the water is supporting the weight. This part isn't really what I was trying to prevent. It was mostly the "crocdile walks onto land with a boat strapped to it's back" part.
However, the items slot rules do not necessarily just apply to animal companions and familiars, in fact there is nothing to suggest that a crocodile animal companion should have any different magic item slots available to it (without the extra slot feat) than a normal crocodile would. Further, reslotting something is purely the purview of a GM, which can be used to deny the actions the players want to take.
If he is looking for legal grounds to deny the player these actions I am attempting to provide them.
Edit: It does occur to me I didn't actually mention that my focus was mostly on denying them the ability to get the boat onto land and not towing the boat with the crocodile in my original post, so now I can see where that would be confusing. Mea culpa.
As far as interesting things to do with an undead crocodile towing the boat...
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Another problem will be all of the creatures that eat dead things in the sea. Sooner or later the only thing that will remain of the croc will be bones. Which are not much good for swimming by themselves.
GM DarkLightHitomi, sorry, read the wrong listing. 30 ft swim is correct.
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Another problem will be all of the creatures that eat dead things in the sea. Sooner or later the only thing that will remain of the croc will be bones. Which are not much good for swimming by themselves.
Savage has definitely got a point. Small fish and a lot of aquatic vermin would eat the body. Though the party's necromancer could regularly channel negative energy to heal it.
Another problem will be all of the creatures that eat dead things in the sea. Sooner or later the only thing that will remain of the croc will be bones. Which are not much good for swimming by themselves.
Eh. Undead skeletal dragons can still fly, despite not having skin attached to their wings anymore, so the undead skeletal croc should still be able to swim just fine.
The croc will rot and be eaten by small scavengers. In fact in the ocean that will take a surprising short period of time. Crabs are really good at that.
Skeletons: A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.
If they made the skeleton from the croc, the flesh is already gone, it is just bones.
And if you take the croc on land with the ship, and the party looses the croc somehow, your ship is now stuck inland. NOT GOOD.
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I think a zombie's natural armour would probably prevent most small fish from munching. There are certainly no rules for zombies decomposing, neither in air nor water.There are no rules for defecation either, but that doesn't mean the GM is not within his or her rights to assume that the characters poop.
There aren't rules for any non-dead creatures decomposing. Undead are not dead, and so they don't decompose. Assume the magic of the spell is holding them together, the same way that it makes them capable of acting.
I'd say have imitators come about as has been previously suggested, and have potential incidents where Little Timmy got too close to the big scary lizard and ended up as lunch.
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Honestly, I would applaud the PCs for finding a unique approach to the game and compliment them on it.
Second, I would have an out of character conversation with the group about possible real-game-world ramifications of this choice both positive and negative. So that if they do get targeted by any anti-undead groups they don't feel like they are being punished for being creative.
Yeah, a brief OOC congratulations, and discussion that reactions both good and bad will follow is a good idea.
There aren't rules for any non-dead creatures decomposing. Undead are not dead, and so they don't decompose. Assume the magic of the spell is holding them together, the same way that it makes them capable of acting.I think a zombie's natural armour would probably prevent most small fish from munching. There are certainly no rules for zombies decomposing, neither in air nor water.There are no rules for defecation either, but that doesn't mean the GM is not within his or her rights to assume that the characters poop.
Decomp or not, it's not gonna stop crabs, etc from eating it.
Decomp or not, it's not gonna stop crabs, etc from eating it.There aren't rules for any non-dead creatures decomposing. Undead are not dead, and so they don't decompose. Assume the magic of the spell is holding them together, the same way that it makes them capable of acting.I think a zombie's natural armour would probably prevent most small fish from munching. There are certainly no rules for zombies decomposing, neither in air nor water.There are no rules for defecation either, but that doesn't mean the GM is not within his or her rights to assume that the characters poop.
Unless the players liberally apply crabs medicine to affected areas. :P
Unless the players liberally apply crabs medicine to affected areas. :PDecomp or not, it's not gonna stop crabs, etc from eating it.There aren't rules for any non-dead creatures decomposing. Undead are not dead, and so they don't decompose. Assume the magic of the spell is holding them together, the same way that it makes them capable of acting.I think a zombie's natural armour would probably prevent most small fish from munching. There are certainly no rules for zombies decomposing, neither in air nor water.There are no rules for defecation either, but that doesn't mean the GM is not within his or her rights to assume that the characters poop.
You need special soap and a tiny comb.
Decomp or not, it's not gonna stop crabs, etc from eating it.
The fact that its an animated dead creature that could chomp the crabs back (protecting itself) sure does.
Assuming the crabs can even get through its DR/5 bludgeoning. A giant crab only does 1d4+2. So 25% of the time it hits it could do 1 damage to the dire croc skeleton(DCS). And its at a +4, while the DCS AC is 27. So a giant crab has a 1.25% chance to do 1 damage per attack.
Meanwhile DCS has 95% chance to hit doing 16-31 damage, meaning 80% of the time it 1 shot knocks out/kills the crab. Oh, and the crab is medium, so the croc gets a free AoO on its way in.
So what exactly is going to be eating the DCS again?
Maybe I missed seeing this already, but ant haul could make this situation even more ridiculous.
Also, in terms of the zombie roc rotting away, it would cost almost nothing for the necromancer to learn restore corpse. Cast that once or twice a day and the thing should be fine. That combined with natural armor should hopefully prevent it from rotting too much.
Target: corpse touched
The DCS is not a corpse, it is a skeleton dire crocodile. It would have to be killed in order to have restore corpse cast on it.
Its not inconceivable for an apl5 party to defeat a cr9 dire crocodile...
I'm on board with that so far...
But if I'm reading the zombie template right, a zombie dire croc has 18 hit dice...
I generally have a personal distaste for necromancy but i'm the kinda gm that allows ludicrous so long as the rules support it, and there's at least one member of our current 5th level skulls and shackles group who would probably be very interested in it.
So how exactly does a 5th level character take reliable control of an 18 hit dice zombie?
There could be a necromancer that decides to jack the corpse since one of that strength is hard to come by unless they kill it themselves. Depending on where you go it could fetch a high price for the sheer strength.
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What was that other idea? Oh yeah, a jet engine made with a magically heated ring and a decanter of endless water.
Have some other pirates in a jet powered pirate ship pull up beside them and challenge them to a race.
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Perhaps put a metal screw attached to the back of the ship. Have several strong skeletons turning the screw with a handle. It would propel the ship. Perhaps use this to augment sailpower. What's the best power-to-HD ratio achievable by a 5th level caster? How fast will this propel a ship via various mechanical contrivances? Anyone want to do it as a Physics problem?
If you put your skeletons in a box, and tie their limbs to the handle, no one need even know how your 'engine' works. It turns the screw on the back of the boat, when plugged in to this socket. Also, there's no way to see inside, so no trouble in harbour. Every now and then you'd need new skeletons, when the old ones 'wear out'. Negative channeling handles that problem.
There's always the old 'skeletal galley slaves' approach. Again, done properly no one need know. But a lot less subtle.
My ex-partner once played a misunderstood necromancer who harnessed undead to help farm and build things. Used a lot of undead animals, rather than humanoids.
Every now and then you'd need new skeletons, when the old ones 'wear out'. Negative channeling handles that problem.
You know what handles it better? Bloody bone skeletons. They can never die on their own, they reform after an hour. And fast healing to boot!
That reminds me. My GM came to realize that a Goblin Alchemist with a fixation on finding a way to get things to burn underwater is terrifying. I ended up creating a system using potassium to propel our ship at waaaaay beyond safe speeds. It was glorious.
Downright stunning amount of power for a level 5 character. And they say the summoner is broken. Pfft.
This is an awesome idea, your players are awesome and you are an awesome GM for allowing it. Next pirate themed game I run will certainly have a group of crocodile-riding pirates in it. Legend! :D