Spellslinger / Myrmidarch Combination - Does it work?


Rules Questions


Greetings rules board! I'm back again with another simple mechanics question that might require a little more explanation than a combination thread can handle. I'll get right to it:

Generic Race Spellslinger 1 / Myrmidarch X

Relevant abilities:

Ranged Spellstrike:
At 4th level, a myrmidarch can use spellstrike to cast a single-target touch attack ranged spell and deliver it through a ranged weapon attack. Even if the spell can normally affect multiple targets, only a single missile, ray, or effect accompanies the attack. At 11th level, a myrmidarch using a multiple-target spell with this ability may deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack when using a full-attack action, up to the maximum allowed by the spell (in the case of ray effects). Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost.
This ability replaces spell recall and improved spell recall.

Arcane Gun:

The spellslinger gains the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat, and one or two of his firearms can be arcane guns. Arcane guns are normal one-handed or two-handed firearms in the hands of others, as they were normal firearms before the spellslinger imbued them with magic. In a spellslinger’s hands, they both fire projectiles (bullets and pellets) and cast magic. At 1st level, the spellslinger decides whether he wants to have one or two arcane guns at a time. If the spellslinger chooses to have only one arcane gun at a time, spells fired Classes through the arcane gun that require an attack roll have a ×3 critical hit multiplier.

A spellslinger can cast any ranged touch attack, cone, line, or ray spells through his arcane gun. When he casts through the arcane gun, the gun’s enhancement bonus (if any) is a bonus to the spell’s attack rolls or to the spell’s saving throw DCs.....

The Combo:

1. Character is using a +5 Generic Rifle, bound to him using Arcane gun.

2. Character declares that he wants to used Ranged Spellstrike using the spell Snowball.

3. Character casts Snowball through the rifle using Arcane gun. He applies the +5 enhancement bonus to the saving throw DC.

4. Character delivers the attack using a shot from his +5 Generic Rifle.
He rolls a 20: a crit! On the confirmation he rolls a 15, adding on the +5 enhancement to the attack roll and other modifiers for ability score, etc; he confirms it.
His Snowball spell lands for 1d6/level, plus Generic Rifle Damage, all multiplied by 3 because of the altered crit modifer. On top of that, the poor target has to beat a DC of X +5 from arcane gun, +X from misc other additions, or he is staggered.
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Is the above a proper application of the two rules used in conjunction with one another? If so, I will for sure be using this concept in my campaign this next week.

The loss of a caster level from taking a level of Spellslinger seems to be worth it for the nonstandard add-ons for your gun (such as, and most importantly, spell-storing), as well as the up to +5 bonus to spell save DCs that can stack with most other bonuses.

Thoughts, opinions, things that completely break the concept? Please let me know!

(Cross-posted from another paizo board because it seems more appropriate to ask here))


Dot


Given that this requires delivering the same spell two different ways... I'd say no.


Dotting


kestral287 wrote:
Given that this requires delivering the same spell two different ways... I'd say no.

And here in lies my question. If you read the description of Arcane Gun, it says nothing about the delivery method of the attack. All it says is that you may cast a spell through your gun.

The wording of Ranged Spellstrike says that any spell you cast may be delivered through a ranged attack with a weapon.

My interpretation is that the gun is used like a spell focus, albeit one that has a 5% chance of blowing up in your face when used.


As far as I can tell, the ranged spellstrike does work in conjunction with a gun attack. Achieving a critical is quite hard, due to the gun's base threat range.

If you make and play this character, I'd appreciate a report on how it goes to put in my guide to the spellslinger.

However, the spell storing ability from spellslinger is almost useless: it is one of the melee weapon only abilities. It requires you to sacrifice a spell to activate it, then put the spell to be stored into the barrel of your gun, and finally strike something with that barrel in melee (not shoot it) to discharge the stored spell. All before the ability expires.


Gilarius wrote:
As far as I can tell, the ranged spellstrike does work in conjunction with a gun attack. Achieving a critical is quite hard, due to the gun's base threat range.

Edit: to be rather more clear, you would not get the weapon bonus onto the spellstrike spell's DC. That only applies to spells you actually cast as spells, when you aren't shooting.


Gilarius wrote:
Gilarius wrote:
As far as I can tell, the ranged spellstrike does work in conjunction with a gun attack. Achieving a critical is quite hard, due to the gun's base threat range.
Edit: to be rather more clear, you would not get the weapon bonus onto the spellstrike spell's DC. That only applies to spells you actually cast as spells, when you aren't shooting.

Spellstrike:
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier. See FAQ/Errata at right for more information.

Spellstrike FAQ:
Can a magus use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, move, and make a melee attack with a weapon to deliver the touch spell, all in the same round?

Yes. Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat. So, just like casting a touch spell, a magus could use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, take a move toward an enemy, then (as a free action) make a melee attack with his weapon to deliver the spell.

On a related topic, the magus touching his held weapon doesn’t count as “touching anything or anyone” when determining if he discharges the spell. A magus could even use the spellstrike ability, miss with his melee attack to deliver the spell, be disarmed by an opponent (or drop the weapon voluntarily, for whatever reason), and still be holding the charge in his hand, just like a normal spellcaster. Furthermore, the weaponless magus could pick up a weapon (even that same weapon) with that hand without automatically discharging the spell, and then attempt to use the weapon to deliver the spell. However, if the magus touches anything other than a weapon with that hand (such as retrieving a potion), that discharges the spell as normal.

Basically, the spellstrike gives the magus more options when it comes to delivering touch spells; it’s not supposed to make it more difficult for the magus to use touch spells.


Emphasis mine, save for the question.

There's nothing in the wording of Ranged Spellstrike that affects the basic functionality of the Spellstrike ability it references. And Spellstrike says that you cast a spell normally.

Until someone can point out what I'm missing, I believe that the only thing that Spellstrike changes is how the spell is delivered, not how it is cast.

If you'd like to further explain your rational, however, I'd love to hear it. ^ ^


Ok. First I am not an expert on how the magus works, which is why I haven't yet included it in my spellslinger guide.

So my reasoning goes like this:

A spellslinger gets the bonus to DCs when casting appropriate spells through the gun. He does not get to shoot it too.

A magus gets to use spellstrike to get both the weapon attack and a spell off simultaneously.

There is nothing explicit in those rules about how the two abilities should interact, so whichever way you choose to rule it is some sort of house rule. As a self-taught 'expert' on the spellslinger, I go with the rule that shooting the gun means you aren't using the arcane gun ability while casting a spell. Instead, to get both a shot off and a spell, you are using the magus spellstrike ability only.

You/your GM might rule the other way, allowing both benefits. But there's nothing explicit to let that happen.

Regardless, please let me know how it goes.

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