Our Fighter intends to 300 Jorgenfist's army


Rise of the Runelords


The title says it all, our Fighter is absolutely furious his wedding got raided and wants to search for a bottleneck and lure all the camps into fighting him there. He is confident in his ability to take on 200 Giants/Ogres/Dire Bears, most of the rest of the group doesn't intend to stick around if he tries but I have to say that he could probably make a decent chunk of that group disappear, but will inevitably die to the barrage of stones being thrown.

28 AC with DR 3/- Fighter 7 [Two-Handed Fighter]/Chevalier 3/Sentinel of Gorum. He hits at a +26 on his first attack dealing 2d6+26 unbuffed.

He says he has a battle plan ready for the rest of the party to back him up if they can find the appropriate terrain. Do you think this can be done?


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That's a lot of Hit Points.

I figure he'd kill at most 30 giants, and we're talking about a tight bottlneck, before they'd change their tactics.

The reason it worked at Thermopylae is because it was an INVASION force. They didn't have to be lured there, they came of their own accord.

Now, he could wait around for the troop to mobilize and find a suitable ambush site, perhaps... but this will not be simple.

Now... as GM, maybe you should let this happen. And let him kill a bunch of giants, enough for bragging rights, before they change things up. Obviously this player thinks it would be cool, so you can exploit that -- and teach him a lesson -- while letting him live out his cool power fantasy. Because that's what this game is for!

Don't let it just work, make it complicated. But honestly, triumph against the odds is as good a story to tell at Jorgenfist as any.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My recollection of Jorgenfist is that there isn't a good bottleneck around there. If there were, the giants aren't completely stupid. They might take him on in a fit of overconfidence, but that wouldn't last long before they changed tactics.

-Skeld


One possible bottleneck would be Jorgenfist itself. If the players were to fight off everything at ground level, they could then attempt to hold the gate against a few waves of stone giants trying to take it back. Of course some of residents of the dungeon levels should show up and make trouble so this isn't the most strategically effective plan.

Another option would be to have the army attack Jorgenfist after the group has taken out Mokmurian or most of his allies. And again they could hold the gate against the army of giants. This would also give you an escape card - after a time, the giant morale could break and the army could flee. Especially if the group makes known Mokmurian's defeat or Conna does the same...


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Tell him he can do it, but only if he bellows "MADNESS? THIS! IS! VARISIA!!" as he bull rushes a stone giant into a pit.


"THIS! IS! SANDPOINT!!!" scans better.


There IS a giant pit in the fort... hmm.

Well, anyway, I still say you should incorporate hints of this player's idea into the game, without making a cakewalk out of it.

That way everyone enjoys themselves without necessarily having to go along with the hare-brained scheme.

Make sure it happens on your terms, though, not the players'. What made Themopylae legendary was success against all odds, not sheer domination by the Spartans. If the players think they can't lose, then you've missed the spirit of the thing.


Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

There IS a giant pit in the fort... hmm.

Well, anyway, I still say you should incorporate hints of this player's idea into the game, without making a cakewalk out of it.

That way everyone enjoys themselves without necessarily having to go along with the hare-brained scheme.

Make sure it happens on your terms, though, not the players'. What made Themopylae legendary was success against all odds, not sheer domination by the Spartans. If the players think they can't lose, then you've missed the spirit of the thing.

I've created my emergency document in case he manages to convince the other players to go forward with it. Complete with morale for each of the camps, I gave them a nice 30 ft. wide bottleneck a mile from Jorgenfist to bait them to, but I'll be having Giants climb onto the cliffs to barrage them with stones. It will not be possible IMO but it's there in case they want to try.


Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

There IS a giant pit in the fort... hmm.

My players are currently assaulting Jorgenfist and immediately dubbed the pit in the middle "The 300 Pit". They haven't kicked anyone into it yet. (Though the Oracle managed to use a combination of Deeper Darkness and misdirection to get one of the stone giants to stumble in on his own.)


The watchtower outside Jorgenfist could reasonably be used as a bottleneck. A little wall of stone and it could be sealed off to a single entrance.

That said, I think this could be amusing and educational. Given the vast majority of the giants are present because of tribal hierarchy and fear, not out of any particular evil desires to attack the lowlands, I think it could be an interesting thing to have happen before they enter Jorgenfist and learn what's actually going on.

I mean, your fighter is outright declaring he wants to be a murderhobo on epic scale.

So screw it, let him kill, maim, and dismember to his heart's content.

Oh, it might do to remind him that he can be moved in a grapple (at -20), and that really, he's going to be one or two lucky rolls from having his head pounded flat by a giant wielding his torn-off leg, the whole time. Nothing builds tension better than knowing your DM has thought about a few tactics to kill you.


Important point.
Thermopylea was a total defeat , after the main defense was outflanked. The Giants know the local area and are really good at climbing they should be able to go around any bottleneck and attack to both sides.

If I wanted to kill all the giants I would go with hit and run teleport raids, teleport in 2-3 rounds of killing and then teleport out before massive reinforcements can be gathered


Did Longtooth survive Sandpoint? There are plenty of things in JF other than giants, and some of them fly.

I'm not sure how he intends to lure the giants into the standoff, except by simply waiting for them to go invade wherever he thinks they're invading. And as Mokmurian isn't a complete idiot, he'll have scouts out.

So I'd let him encounter a lone scout who will run off if engaged, coming back with a warband of a dozen or so giants with air support. He can then fight them off, but should learn that taking the whole lot won't work. For a start, there must be another way out of the valley, and the giants know the ground better than the PCs do.


I think it'd be fun to let him try. But he's going to need the party, not only for action economy reasons, but just to buff him up. His AC is pretty low for his level, especially if he wants to provoke an army of giants who aren't going to have a great deal of difficulty hitting him.


Longtooth couldn't get away as the Sorcerer flew after him lobbing Electric Fireballs until he was downed.

We will know Saturday whether or not he tries to do it.


Even with Longtooth gone, don't forget about the Rocs and the harpies if air support is needed. Stone giants mounted on rocs dropping rocks should give the party a bad day.


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i'm not sure if a Roc could carry a giant loaded up with boulders

of course a roc loaded up up with a certain bat s%@+ crazy kobold would be an awesome sight indeed:)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
captain yesterday wrote:
i'm not sure if a Roc could carry a giant loaded up with boulders

A Roc has a light load of 3200 lbs. Stone Giants weigh about 1500 lbs.

captain yesterday wrote:
of course a roc loaded up up with a certain bat s%+& crazy kobold would be an awesome sight indeed:)

Agreed!!!


boulders weigh a lot, i mean a lot! a small one as big as a human head can weigh a few hundred pounds, i just can't see it mujaba, maybe from the ground on a wooly mammoth but not flying, but they're varied enough at JF rocs crawling with said kobold and redcaps... now thats fun!


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

What is "to 300" supposed to mean?


Zaister wrote:
What is "to 300" supposed to mean?

He intends to take the strategy of the 300 Spartans who fought (and died) at Thermopylae.

The Viking at Stamford Bridge might've been a better allusion.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Aha. Well.


A small boulder as big as a human head will weigh about 3 times as much as a human head, depending on the type of rock. In other words, some 30-40 lbs. So that allows the giant to carry about 50 rocks. It might be a bit tricky to hit with them from a moving platform. Were I the giant, I'd get the roc to put me down on a convenient hillside above the PC and bombard him from there. Or just get the roc to drop a bagful of rocks from its talons, if you have some way to communicate with it.


Kennesty wrote:
We will know Saturday whether or not he tries to do it.

Aaaaaand?


Mudfoot wrote:
It might be a bit tricky to hit with them from a moving platform. Were I the giant, I'd get the roc to put me down on a convenient hillside above the PC and bombard him from there.

Eh... the penalty for ranged attacks while mounted is quite indulgent, actually.


Anguish wrote:
Kennesty wrote:
We will know Saturday whether or not he tries to do it.
Aaaaaand?

Sorry, meant to reply yesterday but got caught up. The very upset fighter decided to go with the rest and Wind Walk in. Though I think not being able to do it made him slightly upset. The rogue found it weird that his squire had been camping out under the building waiting for him and he wouldn't hear any of the Rogues accusations, and then when the rest of the party was getting ready to stealth around he decided to run straight for the pit and everyone had to follow suit. His step-father was a captive from the escaped giants and he wanted to get him out ASAP.

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