Poison DC and temp ability increases


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Do temporary ability increases affect a creature's poison DC?

Some examples for which I assume a con based DC:

- A barbarian with a poisonous bite attack rages. Normal con or raging con?
- A summoned creature affected by augment summoning?
- Bear's endurance on creature with poison?

Side question: If a creature with a poisonous bite gains an ability that allows to use a poisonous bite, can it use both? For example if the creature in question is a serpentine blooded sorcerer (or has eldritch heritage serpentine).

Sczarni

It's a good question.

I know that temporary increase to mental statistics affects DC's of Spells and Supernatural abilities. By following same logic it probably would increase those of Extraordinary, but how would you calculate poison DC when temporary increase runs out? Does the poison lose potency or not?

Summoned creatures via Augment Summoning are already initially tougher with bonus to Con. It's not treated as temporary increase but instead as a permanent bonus and it would affect their poison DC.

Side answer: I would say that you have to choose which poison to use each round depending how ability works.

Adam


I'm building a bloodrager with eldritch heritage serpentine to get a bite attack with poison. Having rage increase the DC is neat.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber

Based on the Bestiary, poison attacks are usually EX (Extraordinary Abilities).

From the PRD:
Extraordinary Abilities (Ex): Extraordinary abilities are unusual abilities that do not rely on magic to function."

I would take that to mean that magic has no influence on the poison attack. IF it was spell-like or Supernatural, sure increase away. Hence why some creatures get an extra bump for being a certain species or have to take Ability Focus feat.


Umbranus wrote:
Side question: If a creature with a poisonous bite gains an ability that allows to use a poisonous bite, can it use both? For example if the creature in question is a serpentine blooded sorcerer (or has eldritch heritage serpentine).

Wouldn't you need to choose to use one or the other each time you made the attack?


Desha wrote:
Umbranus wrote:
Side question: If a creature with a poisonous bite gains an ability that allows to use a poisonous bite, can it use both? For example if the creature in question is a serpentine blooded sorcerer (or has eldritch heritage serpentine).
Wouldn't you need to choose to use one or the other each time you made the attack?

That was what I wanted to know.

@Rrostarr: rage is not magic

Dark Archive

Yes temporary ability bonuses effect the DC of poison just as they effect the DC's of anything. A DC is (base number usually 10) + (ability modifier [makes no distinction between temp or permanent bonuses]) + (other stuff). There no reason for it not to effect the poison DC.

All of your examples would work.

Side: as long as each poison can be delivered as part of a bite attack and does not include a bite as part of the abilities usage then yes, they could stack together.


One corner case, I think, would be a power like the Vishkanya's Toxic ability.

PRD wrote:

Toxic: A number of times per day equal to his Constitution modifier (minimum 1/day), a vishkanya can envenom a weapon that he wields with his toxic saliva or blood (using blood requires the vishkanya to be injured when he uses this ability). Applying venom in this way is a swift action.

Vishkanya Venom: Injury; save Fort DC 10 + 1/2 the vishkanya's Hit Dice + the vishkanya's Constitution modifier; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Dex; cure 1 save.

Increases to the Vishkanya's Constitution would increase for subsequent envenoming of blades, but any blades that were already envenomed would have the DC that they were envenomed with.


Here's the FAQ on that.


HectorVivis wrote:
Here's the FAQ on that.

Thanks

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