bolt ace... is a dip a good idea


Advice

Grand Lodge

Would a 1 level dip for inspired blade swashbuckler be worth it at 2nd level for a bolt ace to have a quality melee backup? Since swashbuckler levels count towards gunslinger I should still be able to get signature deed at 11.

Scarab Sages

As far as dips go it's not terrible. It gives your some extra grit & deeds and a backup melee weapon, and it's still full-bab.


Would be nice, except you can't take it. Advanced classes rule out multiclassing with their components. Swashbuckler has a gunslinger component and bolt ace is a gunslinger archetype.

Unless I missed something and they cut out that rule?


They cut out that rule between beta test and the full release.


StDrake wrote:

Would be nice, except you can't take it. Advanced classes rule out multiclassing with their components. Swashbuckler has a gunslinger component and bolt ace is a gunslinger archetype.

Unless I missed something and they cut out that rule?

They cut it.

Grand Lodge

Imbicatus wrote:
As far as dips go it's not terrible. It gives your some extra grit & deeds and a backup melee weapon, and it's still full-bab.

Would you say it's still stronger to single class? I would love to play a race other than human but that bonus feat at the beginning is so crucial.


I find it's a great dip. At the very worst it nets you 2 extra grit points; perhaps more depending on your mental stats.
IF you have unarmed strike, then you can also use parry reposte with it while holding your xbow and yo uget access to that 5ft leap back deed. Those two can be quite beneficial in moments of "oh crap." So it's still useful even if you never have a nocassion to pull your rapier out.
Having a back u pweaon is good as there are plenty of places where you won't be able to shoot effectly.

I think it's worth a dip, you honestly don't lose a ton from Ace Bolt with it... Just delays things slightly but you get a ton for it.

Grand Lodge

Is fencing grace worth it? I mean with inspired blade its only 1 feat, I was planning on it at 3 if I'm stick with human.

Silver Crusade

London Duke wrote:
Is fencing grace worth it? I mean with inspired blade its only 1 feat, I was planning on it at 3 if I'm stick with human.

Not bad, 1 feat for being competent in melee sounds right to me.

If you want to take 5 levels of Swashbuckler, you would get Improved Critical for your Rapier, a bonus feat, Charmed Life, and Nimble. Even without Charisma for Charmed Life, a cape of daring deeds makes it useful.

Grand Lodge

Right now the feat profession is:
1. Point blank shot
Human bonus:precise shot
Inspired Blade Bonus: weapon finesse & weapon focus (rapier)
3. Fencing Grace
5. Deadly Aim
5b. Rapid Shot
7. Multishot
9. Iron Will
9b. Clustered Shots
11. Signature deed

Am I missing anything?

Lantern Lodge

I'm not sure that swashbuckler levels count as gunslinger levels... where are you reading that? The only rule regarding multiclassing parent classes that I see says:

ACG wrote:
Parent Classes: Each one of the following classes lists two classes that it draws upon to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don't stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices made by the parent classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline).

Grand Lodge

Well my DM is cool with it regardless so woot. Anyways, this build would be for a reign of winter campaign, are there any particular traits I should look into? I can have 3. Right now all my traits are defensive. Speaking of defenses, can I utilize a buckler when using a crossbow?

Grand Lodge

Oh also of note, my DM is using the recommendation that instead of firearm prof and gunslinger I get all xbows and rapid reload at 1st lvl.

Silver Crusade

Shoanti Steed trait?


I think a one level dip is great. Really outside of signature deed I don't think bolt ace (or even gunslinger) is worth taking past level 5, 7 for very specific builds. I think the dip will only help.


I am doing a build like this with my Bolt Ace. I will be going Gnome and using the Vanilla Swashbuckler, so I can use my Chr as my Main Grit stat.
I think I will go Fighter after I get 5 levels of Bolt Ace, most likely Lore Warden to keep my skills, mixed with the Martial Master for fun Martial Flexibility Antics


I've done Inspiried swash1, Bolt ace 5, then Feral hunter. It tunred out pretty well honestly speaking. but I was going with the sniper double xbow type of thing.

Grand Lodge

So after signature deed would you finish up with a different class? Perhaps with a good will save?

I didn't see anything about the buckler, that works since firing the crossbow is 1 handed Yea?

Lantern Lodge

Yes, you can use a buckler, but you take a penalty to your attack rolls unless you shoot your crossbow 1 handed (I think).

Buckler wrote:
This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.


yeah I think yo udo.. but it;s worth picking up weapon focus for xbow to negate that one penalty and get 1-6/7 Ac from it over the years. To me at least.

Signiture deed is awesome though not absolutely needed in most cases. Though always touch AC is nice but yo ugenerally can get away with normal hits due to your BAB and just use the touch AC for special shots or end of iterative shots.

Grand Lodge

FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
Yes, you can use a buckler, but you take a penalty to your attack rolls unless you shoot your crossbow 1 handed (I think).

Crossbows only take 1 hand to shoot I think.


London Duke wrote:
FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
Yes, you can use a buckler, but you take a penalty to your attack rolls unless you shoot your crossbow 1 handed (I think).
Crossbows only take 1 hand to shoot I think.

Actually

"Normally, operating a light crossbow requires two hands. However, you can shoot, but not load, a light crossbow with one hand at a –2 penalty on attack rolls. You can shoot a light crossbow with each hand, but you take a penalty on attack rolls as if attacking with two light weapons. This penalty is cumulative with the penalty for one-handed firing."

So.. .that neg one is less than using it one handed actually. It's worse for heavy xbows. I suppose you could do one handed.. but that's kinda hard/not really worth it

Also just loked at it. Doesn't buckler say it gives no penalties when used iwth a bow/xbow? isn't the -1 only with TWF/Two handing? techincally you don't seem to lose the AC either. Not sure if it counts as using offhand when using bow/xbow.. I don't think it does.. xbow/bow doesn't cite handedness; unless you TWF in which its that whole "as if" situation...

BUCKLER
Price 5 gp
Shield Bonus +1
This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.

Grand Lodge

Sweet. So plus 1 ac, here I come!

How long would you advice going with gunslinger? Any tempting prcs for a crossbower?


London Duke wrote:

Sweet. So plus 1 ac, here I come!

How long would you advice going with gunslinger? Any tempting prcs for a crossbower?

I myself? it would depend on what you want from the character.

I like 5, and 7. 5 for Dex damage, and 7 for that aiming full round action thingy and targeting specific places thingy. (i think bolt ace still gets that...?)

From that point you can either continue bolt ace if you want the discount grit/panache deed. Or you can pick up something like fighter if you want a ton of feats.

I modeled my own versions on a utility ish xbow guy. So I either go with Feral Hunter (some nice bonuses from that) or Investigator (studied combat takes a while to kick in but it makes up for the loss in bab and adds i ndamage; as long as you pick up the ranged study feat and the creatuer in question is precision damageable). both of those net you some spell/extract usages in exchange for the BAB and such. Hunter was good for gravity bow and such.
Slayer is also not a bad choice I would guess...

As for prestige classes I don't know of many that are any better than base classes off hand.. outside of something like Stalwart defender to make yourself into quite a "turret" but that works better via bows due to str bump.
I quite enjoy shadow dancer.. though it costs you fair bit in "to hit" for it.. but the short range teleports and shade guard is amusing or at least the shade is good for getting bad guys into the open for you to shoot wit ha readied vital strike on a gravity bow. Though that would be a dip of a few levels rather than a whole way.

If you just wanted a slaughter fest at range then yeah either stick with bolt ace till bolt ace 11 and just mow everything down at long range with touch AC. or stick to full bab sorta stuff (probably some nice combos with the new classes in ACG I just donn't know all the full BAB classes in it since I usually fulfil a specific role in m ygroups)

Grand Lodge

What do you guys think of the Chevalier PrC at lvl 7? Basically Inspired Blade 1/ Bolt Ace 5/ Chevalier 3/ Bolt Ace X?

Would it be a useful PrC for reign of winter?

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