My players asked me about, which AP is the best for evil characters? Can somebody help me with this question?
Skull and Shackles seems to be the most popular for evil parties. Of course there's 'Way of the Wicked' as well.
Beyond these obvious choices, there are some APs that work better than others. Kingmaker and Council of Thieves lend themselves well to this play-style; Kingmaker is open enough that a DM could rewrite it with minor effort while Council is easily portable as long as you change a few motivations. I believe both of these APs have groups that are running evil parties in their respective sub-forums.
Definitely Skull and Shackles. The PC's are pirates, warring against other pirates.
Reign of winter although not made for evil characters does require characters to be less that lily white for their dealings with Baba Yaga and would be easy to convert for evil.
Mummy's mask is about tomb robbing, alignment isn't that important.
Kingmaker is about building a kingdom so again alignment not that important.
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Iron Gods
resistance is futile.
Probably faster to list which post 3.5 AP wouldn't work with an evil Party (at least, baring some serious rewriting).
I forgot which issue it was, but the edition of Wayfinder that focused on Varisia had an article on how to adapt "Rise of the Runelords" as an evil campaign. In it, the PCs seek to claim the power of the Runelords for themselves.
I think a lot of it depends on how much work you want to put into it, and how adult people are about being evil. The typical mindless murder hobo probably isn't going to work well in many APs (though Skull and Shackles would be my guess for best fit, though I'm not as familiar with the mid/later parts as I am other APs).
If the PCs are more along the lines of subtle evil you're probably good with little to no modification.
Iron Gods is looking good for mercenary types.
I think a lot of it depends on how much work you want to put into it, and how adult people are about being evil. The typical mindless murder hobo probably isn't going to work well in many APs (though Skull and Shackles would be my guess for best fit, though I'm not as familiar with the mid/later parts as I am other APs).
If the PCs are more along the lines of subtle evil you're probably good with little to no modification.
Iron Gods is looking good for mercenary types.
Yeah, not many AP fit the brutalize everything evil, Evil Businessmen and Evil Conquerors/Councilors have better reasons to butt in.
May be better finding a 3rd pp for truly evil pcs
Iron Gods.
all will be assimilated.
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Iron Gods.
all will be assimilated.
GLORY TO THE MANY.
Good! Good!
Iron Gods.
all will be assimilated.
considering people of all alignments want to turn the Technic League (members) into red paste...
in the process of writing an AP for very evil PCs if you want to take a look at the google docs for it
Well my one group likes to take the most goodie two-shoes AP and make it into a chore for the GMs with evil characters. We play once a week and alternate GMs and games every other week which thankfully gives GMs a bit of extra time to make these APs adapt and work.
Currently playing Wraith of the Righteous and Carrion Crown with evil parties.
In Righteous we worship Norgerber in secret and Nethys in the open. Norgerber has his reasons for wanting the knowledge of how to close the worldwound and we are his hidden servants in the process. It gets interesting at times as one party member isn't aware IC of our loyalties and goals and is still a LN Druid that might not always agree.
In Carrion Crown half the party worships Urgathoa and they have already veered from the path some and they are nearing the end of book 2 and things are going ok. I envision they may soon be competing with the Whispering Way to get the Carrion Crown formula to use on themselves.
Quite a few of the APs can be adapted to "evil" characters - though to be honest I barely use alignments myself and consider them somewhat outdated and better off not used. Instead, I just work with consequences for actions. You want to murder someone? You will have the law on your hands unless you're able to eliminate all evidence (which can be difficult given the use of augury and other divination magics - for instance, an augury can be used to quickly eliminate people from the suspect list - "Did a family member kill him? - No. Was the person who killed him someone who worked for him? - No. Was the murderer one of the townsfolk? - No." With that you eliminate anyone who's not a stranger in town and the party may very well have guards seeking their arrest for questioning).
There is also evil, and Evil. You could have someone who goes around healing the sick and wounded in town and donates to the local orphanage... but who will capture goblins and torture them to death. Is that person evil? Ask the goblins and they say yes. Ask the townsfolk and even if they know about the goblins dying, they would think of everything he does for the town and how he's never hurt anyone in town. They'd say no in all likelihood - especially if the goblins had ever hurt or killed anyone in town or in the area... which is more than likely.
Is it evil to go through the ranks of the dying humanoids or invading bandits or the like and slitting throats? Is it any less evil to patch them up, bring them in for trial, and have them hung to death or decapitated by headsman after their guilt is declared?
What truly matters is this: consequences. The man who tortures and kills goblins may very well end up ambushed by the goblins, who bury him in the sand up to his neck while the tide is out. The woman who slits the throats of bandits may end up slitting the throat of an undercover Agent of the Crown who was investigating their ties with a local noble, and end up with the Crown looking for vengeance. The bandits brought in for trial may have friends in high places who find them not guilty... and they go out and murder again. Or worse, their friends stage a raid and rescue their imprisoned brethren while killing a dozen townsfolk in the attack.
@ Tangent101, I like that way of thinking, Hell, tipical MurderHobos (especially in video games) wouldn't stay in the Lawful zone for very long, and probably not in the Good one either.
I'd go "Way of the Wicked" for an all evil party, although I'm sure you could retro fit a lot of other APs. WotW was designed for evil parties and is all around awesome (if that's what you want to play).
I'd go "Way of the Wicked" for an all evil party, although I'm sure you could retro fit a lot of other APs. WotW was designed for evil parties and is all around awesome (if that's what you want to play).
I remember reading, when it came out, that the writers had trouble writting Good aligned characters who were, well, Good aligned.
Shattered Star could work for Evil parties without a lot of modification. The meat of the thing is hunting down pieces of a powerful artifact, and there are plenty of reasons for evil characters to do so.
I could also see Kingmaker working for an evil party.
Indeed Kingmaker works pretty well with a LE party, rename it Tyrantmaker.
Instead, IMHO, a party of CE or NE PCs should need very strong ties to stay together, and together being to build a kingdom.
Indeed Kingmaker works pretty well with a LE party, rename it Tyrantmaker.
Instead, IMHO, a party of CE or NE PCs should need very strong ties to stay together, and together being to build a kingdom.
Building a Kingdom isn't the hard part, keeping it from falling appart afterward is.
Kingmaker, Skull and Shackles, Way of the Wicked.
Those three come to mind, though the third is third party material.
Reign of Winter might be easier at times for Neutral and/or Evil characters.
the main "problem" with Evil PCs (and/or undead ones) is how plot/traps circumventing it can be.
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Just a tangent here but:
I find running a party along roughly the same axis of Good - Neutral OR Neutral - Evil isn't that hard. In any AP. It all depends on how you write things. For instance, in Kingmaker I had the party do a side-trek working for the Stag Lord and getting stiffed in the loot. That was enough for my players to betray the bandit party and "save" Oleg's Trading post, which they shortly began turning into a fortress of their own. Instead of the funds from the sword lords, I had them raid caravans for their initial investment. It ended being rather fun.
In Skull & Shackles we were a party of chaotic neutral to chaotic evil and while the party wanted nothing more than to one up each other, we all agreed that our current situation needed to be fixed first. Unfortunately our GM had to stop playing that AP.
Then we get to Rise of the Runelords... LG Fighter, LE Cavalier, NE Witch, True Neutral Wizard, CN Gunslinger. This did not end well. On a night when the Wizard and Gunslinger couldn't play (so I ruled that the wizard had retreated to his room and locked the door, and the Gunslinger was so drunk as to be unconscious) the Fighter, Cavalier and Witch explored the catacombs under the glassworks. During the fight with the little demon/devil woman the two evil characters decided to let the good one go toe to toe with the villain. Then, when she was weakened they slew her, slew the demon/devil then took the runewell. That ruined the campaign there due to hurt feelings.
As long as you have a coherent party, you're fine. Its only when they are in different axis of thought can things go wrong.
TL;DR Skull & Shackles, Rise of the Runelords, Way of the Wicked, Kingmaker. Yup.
As stated above, Way of the Wicked has had a lot of great word of mouth. You can download a free preview from RPG Drive Thru.
As stated above, Way of the Wicked has had a lot of great word of mouth. You can download a free preview from RPG Drive Thru.
I think it can be downloaded from here too.
Just a tangent here but:
I find running a party along roughly the same axis of Good - Neutral OR Neutral - Evil isn't that hard. In any AP. It all depends on how you write things. For instance, in Kingmaker I had the party do a side-trek working for the Stag Lord and getting stiffed in the loot. That was enough for my players to betray the bandit party and "save" Oleg's Trading post, which they shortly began turning into a fortress of their own. Instead of the funds from the sword lords, I had them raid caravans for their initial investment. It ended being rather fun.
In Skull & Shackles we were a party of chaotic neutral to chaotic evil and while the party wanted nothing more than to one up each other, we all agreed that our current situation needed to be fixed first. Unfortunately our GM had to stop playing that AP.
Then we get to Rise of the Runelords... LG Fighter, LE Cavalier, NE Witch, True Neutral Wizard, CN Gunslinger. This did not end well. On a night when the Wizard and Gunslinger couldn't play (so I ruled that the wizard had retreated to his room and locked the door, and the Gunslinger was so drunk as to be unconscious) the Fighter, Cavalier and Witch explored the catacombs under the glassworks. During the fight with the little demon/devil woman the two evil characters decided to let the good one go toe to toe with the villain. Then, when she was weakened they slew her, slew the demon/devil then took the runewell. That ruined the campaign there due to hurt feelings.
As long as you have a coherent party, you're fine. Its only when they are in different axis of thought can things go wrong.
TL;DR Skull & Shackles, Rise of the Runelords, Way of the Wicked, Kingmaker. Yup.
That's more a problem with the players themselves than the PCs' alignments.
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Most AP's could be done with an evil member ("ends justifies the means" style or similar) and possibly full party (or close to it) of evil, depending on the motivation for evil actions (hence evil alignment).
Champions of Corruption covers this fairly well. In that you need a reason for the group to not full apart.
It helps if all members (good or evil) see the greater goal/benefits of working together to get what they want, just their methods and reasons are different.
Another way to put would be: evil doesn't always mean villain (enemy of the party, etc) or vice versa.
I forgot which issue it was, but the edition of Wayfinder that focused on Varisia had an article on how to adapt "Rise of the Runelords" as an evil campaign. In it, the PCs seek to claim the power of the Runelords for themselves.
That would be Wayfinder #7.
Wayfinder #9 had "Council of Thieves As An All-Drow Campaign" which by PF canon is for evil (powerful) PCs.
Off-topic:
Wayfinder #8 had "Curse of the coral throne" as an aquatic campaign.
Ruyan.
Personally, I won't allow PvP unless it's something everyone agrees to beforehand. The general consensus is that the party is supposed to work together and therefore the onus is on the players to figure out how to jusitfy the motivation of why their evil characters are working with good characters. If they're just looking for a chance to backstab the good PCs, that's just not good roleplaying in my mind. It's lazy.
Personally, I won't allow PvP unless it's something everyone agrees to beforehand. The general consensus is that the party is supposed to work together and therefore the onus is on the players to figure out how to jusitfy the motivation of why their evil characters are working with good characters. If they're just looking for a chance to backstab the good PCs, that's just not good roleplaying in my mind. It's lazy.
And/or very immature.
personally if I make an evil character, its going to be more cartoon villain then TortureHobo evil:)
personally if I make an evil character, its going to be more cartoon villain then TortureHobo evil:)
"Cartoon Villains" tend to be more Neutral than Evil.
Way of the Wicked is fantastic. My group is loving it. We are 25% into book 2.
I would make sure of your party size before you start. We have a group of 5 that was down from 8. I run the party at the slowest exp progression. Really cements the world against us feeling.
Looks like the necromancer Malovec cast raise thread.
We didn't know it was coming two years ago, but the current AP Hell's Vengeance is for evil PCs working for House Thrune in Cheliax.
We always end up with at least one LE or NE character sticking around either because of an oath or just for his own profit in most games I run. With so many adventurers in business for quick riches and glory, it isn't really a surprise.
My players asked me about, which AP is the best for evil characters? Can somebody help me with this question?
Hell's Vengeance is DESIGNED for evil characters.