Goblin Squad Member
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What is it to you? Trading? Combat? Banditry? Politics? All or none of the above? Do you love it, tolerate it, hate it? Why? Why does it matter to you? Why doesn't it matter?
I hope this can generate a discussion, but that people won't get pulled into defending their position. We should all feel free to have our own opinions and likes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have pretty crappy reflexes and reaction time, so combat against another person, where there is no time built in to let me assess the situation is both humiliating and unproductive for me. I do, however, appreciate interactions with other players, trading, negotiating, planning. My ideal PvP encounter involves no combat whatsoever.
That said, I fully appreciate that having a rich field of capable opponents will lead to a better experience, and I understand that means that I'm going to lose some of my stuff to people who want to take it from me rather than spend a large amount of time getting it other ways.
I don't expect I'm ever going to like that, because I don't expect I'll ever be more than merely competent with my combat, but I will make the decisions I need to in order to enjoy life as best I may.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Before I ever heard of Pathfinder Online, I knew non-consensual PvP had to be a significant part of my "perfect game". It solves a multitude of problems, and only creates a few, but those few are doozies.
The "problem" with PvP is when there's no reason not to. When killing everyone you see is obviously the best choice, or at least it's never obviously a bad choice. Changing this one dynamic - giving other players a reason to ask themselves if it's worth it - I think completely alters the landscape and makes the "toxic" stuff much less likely.
Last night, Valkenr kept jumping on my head while I was semi-afk working on the wiki data. Three times in a row, I moved and hit him once as a warning. The fourth time, I killed him. That, to me, is one of the many, many ways in which an "Open World PvP" game is superior.
Of course, that cost me almost 7,000 Reputation, so it's not the kind of thing I can do recklessly over and over, which is what I think puts Pathfinder Online in a league of its own.
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Goblin Squad Member
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When I first discovered PFO, thanks to The Goodfellow, I had decided that my main character would be a hard core PVP bandit / pirate type of character. I thought of the low sec pirate corps I used to run with in EVE, and knew that I wanted to run a small band of cutthroats in PFO in a similar way.
The Unnamed Company was formed to be honest, open and unapologetic about our intentions. We are into PVP to take (rob) from others. Greed and living the life of a bunch of career criminals (outlaws / outcasts) is our motivation.
We came up with the name "UnNamed" because we want to be mercenaries in our banditry. We figured we could hire ourselves out, secretly (thus remaining un named) and engage in economic warfare for our employer.
The combat is also a major draw. Honestly, the only thing more boring than PVE combat is harvesting in a safe zone. PVP is unpredictable and win, lose or draw, it is the only reason I would play this game at all. I like not knowing what dangers lie ahead, I just like knowing that there is great danger out there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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With tab targeting and a bow, I hope to become a competent PVP combatant. I'm glad that the opportunity condition exists to balance out the advantage of circle-jump-strafing, and that we have some automated charge and withdrawal feats.
In terms of market PVP, I'll probably never be enough of a hardcore spreadsheet warrior to make maximum profits, but I hope to supplement my other sources of income by gathering all types of nodes.
The existence of people like the Unnamed Company is the key to the career I plan to pursue: Caravan guarding. Some days it may come to a fight. Other days, the presence one or more guards may be enough to dissuade attacks. Once auras are working, I hope I can also benefit a caravan with the Travel Domain speed boost.
I'm looking forward to the War of Towers, and the real wars to follow. I hope GW can pull off their plans for formation combat. That would really be something new in personal avatar MMOs.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To me PvP is anything with players competing against players. Some of it, to me, is extremely boring; auction house games I'm looking at you. The combat portion of PvP is what I enjoy. That being said it is very rare for me to initiate combat. I will attack someone attacking a settlement or guild member/friend without hesitation. If I'm walking around and see someone flagged I don't attack unless they make a threatening move. Am I potentially giving them an advantage? Probably but my win/loss ratio is pretty high so I'm giving them a helping hand. I'll never really understand people that enjoy banditry or random killing as it's not something I particularly care to do, but I've long since realized no two minds are alike so neither are two likes.
Edit to add: A little disappointed in the lack of a PvP outlet in game. War of towers will be diverting but I don't see that diversion lasting longer than a week. I'd love to be wrong!
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I hope this can generate a discussion, but that people won't get pulled into defending their position. We should all feel free to have our own opinions and likes.
I am going to close every new thread I create with this from now on out.
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I'm probably more a fan of team vs. team style PvP, rather than single player vs player duels. It's nature of coop player that I like.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I believe that the threat of consequential (for all parties involved) PvP is a vital component to building an interesting virtual world.
I have no interest in economic games or initiating PvP on random players. The act of PvP combat itself does not create great emotions for me (win, lose or draw). When PvP combat serves some greater purpose it feels rewarding (irrespective of the outcome).
I am looking forward to playing my role in the front lines trying to help build and protect a community which hopefully can provide a safe haven of sorts for those who would like to be part of this virtual world but for whatever reason dislike the prospect of combat against other players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have pretty crappy reflexes and reaction time, so combat against another person, where there is no time built in to let me assess the situation is both humiliating and unproductive for me. I do, however, appreciate interactions with other players, trading, negotiating, planning. My ideal PvP encounter involves no combat whatsoever.
That said, I fully appreciate that having a rich field of capable opponents will lead to a better experience, and I understand that means that I'm going to lose some of my stuff to people who want to take it from me rather than spend a large amount of time getting it other ways.
I don't expect I'm ever going to like that, because I don't expect I'll ever be more than merely competent with my combat, but I will make the decisions I need to in order to enjoy life as best I may.
This. Very much this.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My incentive for PvP is the same for PvE - kill things, take their stuff. "Stuff" can be pretty ephemeral sometimes; it can be loot, but also points, or a strategic goal achieved or person defended. Without that incentive, their doesn't feel to be any point. For me, PvP outshines PvE because the unpredictability of the human brain behind the toon way exceeds any AI and can't be beat by memorising a recipe to defeat. Tried economic PvP, but not my thing.
And an extra like for Doc's comment above:
I'm probably more a fan of team vs. team style PvP, rather than single player vs player duels. It's nature of coop player that I like.
I'll know I'm home when I'm peacefully gathering at nodes and look up just in time to see the Zerg of unfriendlies roll over me.
Oh, and I do loves me some friendly rivalries between the hunters. As long as I can /emote Wave at you one day while I'm stealthed, I'll be happy. I'm definitely more PvE, but open PvP makes everything more interesting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am still hoping that we will be able to *tell* when we can expect danger. And get feedback of the why and who.
That means an easy way to check if you are in any Feud with your Company, if your Town is in a War, which Factions are hostile to your Faction, and off course being able to *recognize* enemies by means of feedback through chat or UI, if even *after* the fact of being killed.
I can live with being killed for a reason, for something that I could or should have seen coming. I want to be able to deal with calculated risks.
I do not want to be jumped and killed and then can never find out who killed me, or why, and what the effect was.
If I get randomly PK-ed (still possible after all) then at the very least I would like a message in my chatbox that "such and so just ruined his reputation by killing you".
I have advocated the so-called "Kill-message" before, where a player gets feedback in his chat as to why he was attacked:
"You are attacked by <insert name> whose Company is currently Feuding yours"
"You are attacked by <insert name> with a hostile faction to yours"
"You are attacked by <insert name> whose Settlement is at war with yours"
"You are currently in a Golgotha-controlled Hex and can be attacked witout repercussion if you break Hex laws"
"You are attacked for no apparent reason by <insert name>"
Knowing where to go safely is off course something that the player will have to figure out for himself.
But nothing more frustrating then not knowing what killed you or why he killed you. Those feedback message will also be a great learning tool.
Ryan was a proponent of these so-called kill-mails so I am hopeful. Eve seems to have something like this too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem I have with kill-mails a la EVE is that they can lead to certain personalities becoming collectors, and thus farming for them. That'll necessitate the prior presence of all the planned control-schemes against that behaviour.
Kill mails, "no", I don't see the problem. Kill boards, yes, there is that potential. However EvE has changed the nature of the kill boards, and they now measure isk lost vs. isk destroyed / taken. So now those that value kill boards see the information this way:
Pilot 1: 1 kill, 10 losses
Isk destroyed: 46 million
Isk lost: 4.6 million
Pilot 2: 10 kills, 1 loss
Isk destroyed: 4.6 million
Isk lost: 46 million
Who is the more effective pilot to pad your company's record?
Noob farming isn't valued like it used to be, because kill to death ratio is seen differently.
In PFO, what they need is for the combat log (chat) to function. This will tell you who attacked you; what damage did the deal; what feats they used; what damage you dealt to them; ect.
You can then snap shot it and study the numbers, and min-max based off of it. This is what we did in Age of Conan, to learn what feats to trigger and when or what order.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for the correction, Bluddwolf. The last time I played EVE was in 2008, so I can easily see how what I've learned since, mostly from players' writings outside the game, can have a slant I'd not considered.
When I was there, I was very definitely the noob being farmed :-).
Can min-maxing based on combat logs become a problem of its own? I've met players in LOTRO who've been challenged to "post your parse" in order to be accepted into even pick-up groups; that seems excessively exclusionary, but, here again, there may be factors I'm not considering.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Can min-maxing based on combat logs become a problem of its own? I've met players in LOTRO who've been challenged to "post your parse" in order to be accepted into even pick-up groups; that seems excessively exclusionary, but, here again, there may be factors I'm not considering.
Yes it does, and in my opinion a worse problem than noob farming if we are to compare them.
Noob farming is effectively stopped by traveling in numbers or outgrowing being a noob.
Min-maxer demands require you to either restructure your character abilities or play a style of your characters that you don't wish to play. If you don't do one or the other, you are left shouting in global, "LFG" and no parties pick you up.
Back in vanilla WoW (first year) if you tried to be a dual wield warrior, with no taunt ability, it was virtually impossible to get a group to pick you up. You were not a true "tank" ,or an aggro machine.
That is why I so despise Theme Park raiding.
