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For my 3rd lvl feat with my druid i took Eldritch Heritage to get a familiar. At 9th level i want to take the improved familiar feat to get an imp. The Eldritch Heritage feat says that my level is effective to a sorcerer minus 2 when i comes to effects of my familiar. At level 9 i meat all of the prerequisites for the Improved Familiar Feat but the argument people want have is they say that the Improved Familiar feat has an Arcane caster prerequisite and i dont believe it. The Prerequisites say that i need 7 levels of an Arcane Spell Caster which is different than an actual caster lvl. I am wandering if there is a difference between a caster level and levels of a spell caster... as levels of Arcane Spell Caster is the only in the Improved Familiar Feat and this is the only time it is refered to in this way, any other way it just says caster level I have had this discussion with the society group back home and most agree but i am looking for an official clarification. Please help

Blakmane |

Levels in spellcaster and 'caster level' are totally separate things that are not interchangeable. Spellcaster levels often give you caster levels, but not always (see prestige classes) and some feats/traits can boost your caster level independently. Don't even think about caster levels: the feat does not mention them.
As for the feat prereqs, you would not be able to take improved familiar as a druid if you had a familiar via some method that didn't involve arcane spellcaster levels. However, Eldritch Heritage lets you count as sorcerer level -2 when it comes to using your familiar. Sorcerer levels are arcane spellcaster levels and should thus logically count towards the feat prereqs. A DM could potentially rule otherwise if he was feeling especially mean, so make sure your VC is on board with this.
I'm assuming you are a LN Druid, by the way?

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Levels in spellcaster and 'caster level' are totally separate things that are not interchangeable. Spellcaster levels often give you caster levels, but not always (see prestige classes) and some feats/traits can boost your caster level independently. Don't even think about caster levels: the feat does not mention them.
As for the feat prereqs, you would not be able to take improved familiar as a druid if you had a familiar via some method that didn't involve arcane spellcaster levels. However, Eldritch Heritage lets you count as sorcerer level -2 when it comes to using your familiar. Sorcerer levels are arcane spellcaster levels and should thus logically count towards the feat prereqs. A DM could potentially rule otherwise if he was feeling especially mean, so make sure your VC is on board with this.
I'm assuming you are a LN Druid, by the way?
yes he is a LN and my VL is on board but i am wanting a formal answer so i can play it his way no matter where i am at. Thanks to everyone who has posted and keep them coming

Iorthol |

Ok, as a DM I would allow these shenanigans.
Now, as a rules person, my two cents buy a different story.
You qualify to take Improved Familiar. Unfortunately, the feat requires arcane caster levels, which you do not have. The Eldritch Heritage stuff you were pulling gives you an effective sorcerer level of Character -2, exclusively for the purpose of scaling the abilities of your bloodline powers (in this case, your familiar).
From a straight rules look, you can take the feat, but it provides you no benefit, you can't get that imp, since you have no arcane caster level, making it so you cannot obtain any of the options from the feat's chart.
Still, I would allow you your imp, since it's pretty badass to get your hands on a familiar without it coming from a class ability.

SodiumTelluride |

If this is for a game that isn't PFS, you'll just have to talk to your GM. Even if there were an "official" ruling, any GM can say "Well I think it should work this other way" and what he/she says goes. But you could easily make the case that a sorcerer level is an arcane caster level. If it were me, I'd let you do it.
Strictly speaking, though, this would not work. The wording of Eldritch Heritage says "For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer." Note that it does not mention qualifying for feats. You only have an effective sorcerer level for "using that power."

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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |

I did some digging and found these links to previous discussions on this same topic:
Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) and Improved Familiar
Eldritch Heritage Feat Line and Divine Casters.
Spell-like abilities and Improved Familiar / Eldritch Heritage
Level 9 Rogue with Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) eligible for Improved Familiar?
Ultimate Magic Improved Eldritch Heritage... What the?
Improved Familiar + Eldritch Heritage (arcane) question. PFS Rules.
Improved Familiar for non-arcane?
After reading through all of these, I was genuinely surprised by the lack of a consensus. The two positions seem to be:
1) Yes, you could take Improved Familiar, because you count as a Sorcerer (which is an arcane spellcaster), and
2) No, you couldn't take Improved Familiar, because you don't actually have an arcane caster level.
So, perhaps a legitimate FAQ request is in order.

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Ok, as a DM I would allow these shenanigans.
Now, as a rules person, my two cents buy a different story.You qualify to take Improved Familiar. Unfortunately, the feat requires arcane caster levels, which you do not have. The Eldritch Heritage stuff you were pulling gives you an effective sorcerer level of Character -2, exclusively for the purpose of scaling the abilities of your bloodline powers (in this case, your familiar).
From a straight rules look, you can take the feat, but it provides you no benefit, you can't get that imp, since you have no arcane caster level, making it so you cannot obtain any of the options from the feat's chart.
Still, I would allow you your imp, since it's pretty badass to get your hands on a familiar without it coming from a class ability.
Its not levels of arcane caster lvls it levels of an arcane spell caster they are to different things...
Example a paladin is a divine caster but a stone paladin loses the ability to cast spells but the fact that he is a paladin makes his class a divine casting class