A Newbie perspective - learning resources


Pathfinder Online

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Goblin Squad Member

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I was an EQ player for a couple of years, SWGO for a while, and then WoW for a couple of years. I am mostly PvE, although I do PvP a bit. I finally had the time yesterday to download and start playing and here's what I found.

As with most MMOs, the learning curve is huge. The quick guide is ok, but it leaves an awful lot unanswered. This forum is pretty much useless. There are 3,682 threads in a single forum. New sub-forums need to be created for classes and crafting at a minimum.

I had planned to spend today reading up about crafting, combat, classes etc., but I don't have any resources. I would have hoped for at least something pinned to the top of this forum with a list of links to resources.

From the start the in-game community has been great. If I had any questions they were quickly answered, but I don't want to be that guy who needs his hand held through everything.

Goblin Squad Member

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The forums on Goblinworks.com (currently referred to as the Alpha Forums) are pretty much exactly what you described that you wanted. There are sub-forums for everything from crafting to different class roles to technical questions and bug reports. My understanding is that those forums will eventually be the permanent default forums for Pathfinder Online.

Also, don't ever be afraid to ask questions. Especially now - lots of in-game information is not yet in the game, and even veterans have to search on the forums or other external resources for information from time to time. A few weeks ago there weren't even tooltips in the game for feats, so it's coming along.

Goblin Squad Member

Actually, here are some links for you to start looking at now, if you like:

Pathfinder Online Wiki

Google Drive of PFO docs

Pathfinder Online HQ

That should get you started. As I said before, don't hesitate to ask any questions. You'll find tons of helpful people on the forums as well as in the game. :)

Goblin Squad Member

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Here is my Guide PFO Starter Guide

It has the three links above, as well as 17 more useful links, frequently asked questions section, race guide, quick start guide, where to spend your first 1k experience guide, and finally a ton of other info (like a complete break down of the UI with pictures).

Goblin Squad Member

Many thanks. I have read a lot, and now I feel like I know even less than I started out knowing! A few questions in bold.

I want to be a Rogue, so I already got the short bow and some bow skills (distant strike and the one that causes bleed seem to kill most foes quite quickly). I got some footpad's armour from the AH and 3 armour feats (I've slotted chameleon for now). I still have my starter club, and I got a couple of feats for that (per the tutorial, plus Conk), I should probably upgrade that to some kind of sword. I am Rogue level 2 now (I think, anyway, 1 level up from the starter level). What is a rogue kit, and where do I get one?

I also took feats as I found them (I started out with a lot of XP) - a bunch of knowledge level 1 skills from the library (I should probably take them all), most of the skills from the rogue trainer, and some from the skirmish trainer. I think I also took mining.

I want to be a tanner/leather worker (I always like to be able to make my own armour in MMOs), but so far I have looted 1 pelt, so that seems to be a bit slow. I obviously need to improve my midden searching.

I have run around and killed a lot of goblins, several wolves, a handful of bandits and run away from a lot of ogres, meanwhile looting any nodes I have found. How do I use the many tokens I have looted?

I have an awful lot of slots on my paper doll that are empty, how do what do I need to fill them?

I really don't understand the keyword concept?

Goblin Squad Member

Upgrade to Short Sword/Rapier for the Subterfuge Achievements.

A rogue kit is an implement, if you read about expendables in the guide, it explains that you can use Rogue Maneuvers with a implement, specifically the Rogue Kit. You can get it by killing monsters, but it takes like 250 kills for a Maneuver/Spell to drop, so might want to save money up to buy them.

Tanner/Leatherworker is fine, but eventually you are going to have to focus on one over the other. To find stuff for Tanner you need to kill Animals (Wolves/Goblin Dogs), as well as use the scavenging skill to find animal pelts in junk/midden nodes. Bandits and Goblins also drop broken armor you can use as ingredients.

Slot Tokens into your paper doll, they go in the wonderous item slot. If you hit f1, you can target yourself and use them.

You can click on the Def Feats, Armor Feat, Feature Feat, and Reactive Feat slots on your paper doll, and it should bring up your Feat menu, and give you options to slot from feats that you have bought.

Keywords are actually pretty easy...

Just match Keywords from:

Armor Feat to your Armor
Attack Abilities to your Weapon
Feature Feat to your expendable (Spell or Maneuver)

and your Armor will give you more defense/hp, your weapon will do more damage/longer buffs/debuffs same for Spells/Maneuvers

Goblin Squad Member

@Cheatle,

As a fighter, do I need to slot the "Intro Trophy Charm" into both Implement slots (this needing two of those things)?

If yes, why and how does it work. Someone asked me this, and I didn't know how to answer...


Krad, I sent you a PM with some links. Also feel free to join up on the Allegiant GC public TeamSpeak channel if you'd like to talk through some of the questions instead of typing/reading through all this.

(allegiantgaming.com)

Goblin Squad Member

You do not need to slot both of them, but if you do it gives you more flexibility in what you choose to slot.

Goblin Squad Member

TEO Cheatle wrote:
You do not need to slot both of them, but if you do it gives you more flexibility in what you choose to slot.

Please elaborate. I want to learn more.

Goblin Squad Member

TEO Cheatle wrote:
You do not need to slot both of them, but if you do it gives you more flexibility in what you choose to slot.

Does slotting two trophy charms (or two rogue kits, etc) give you two mixes of maneuvers/spells, then? And is there a key like ~ that tabs between them?

Goblin Squad Member

Urman wrote:
TEO Cheatle wrote:
You do not need to slot both of them, but if you do it gives you more flexibility in what you choose to slot.
Does slotting two trophy charms (or two rogue kits, etc) give you two mixes of maneuvers/spells, then? And is there a key like ~ that tabs between them?

Yes, to both.

You're supposed to switch between implements with Alt-`, but they're hard-linked right now so that when you switch Weapon Sets you also switch Implements.

Goblin Squad Member

TEO Cheatle wrote:
You do not need to slot both of them, but if you do it gives you more flexibility in what you choose to slot.

Woo, I just got confused. How would slotting 2 identical Wizard implements, for example, give me more flexibility?

Goblin Squad Member

So each Implement is attached to each weapon you have:

Your primary weapon/primary implement slot
Your secondary weapon/secondary implement slot

They are sets, and if you hit the ` key, beside #1 key it switches between them.

Each Implement you slot holds so many spells/maneuvers, as a matter of fact if you hover over them they tell you how many levels of spells/maneuvers they hold. For instance:

Student's Trophy Charm +1 will hold up to 7 levels of Maneuvers.
If you have x1 lvl 3 Maneuver, x2 lvl 2 Maneuvers, and x2 lvl 1 Maneuvers....you could slot both 1st levels, 1 2nd level, and 1 3rd level. Essentially you add the levels together to get the number of levels the implement can hold.

You can slot two different implements, or the same kind. Each one can have totally different things slotted.

Remember those that these Spells/Maneuver have to match Keywords from your feature feats to work correctly.

Rogue Features like Cut-Throat key to Rogue Maneuver
Wizard Features like one of your schools (Evoker) key to Arcane Spells
Fighter Features like Bow Specialization key to Fighter Maneuvers
Cleric Featuers like one of your domains (Protection) key to Divine Spells

Goblin Squad Member

Saiph wrote:
TEO Cheatle wrote:
You do not need to slot both of them, but if you do it gives you more flexibility in what you choose to slot.
Woo, I just got confused. How would slotting 2 identical Wizard implements, for example, give me more flexibility?

You could have two entirely different sets of spells on each implement, and go back and forth between them to create versatility.

Goblin Squad Member

TEO Cheatle wrote:
Saiph wrote:
TEO Cheatle wrote:
You do not need to slot both of them, but if you do it gives you more flexibility in what you choose to slot.
Woo, I just got confused. How would slotting 2 identical Wizard implements, for example, give me more flexibility?
You could have two entirely different sets of spells on each implement, and go back and forth between them to create versatility.

Oh, got it! I haven't played enough yet to get an implement so I wasn't understanding. Thanks!

Goblin Squad Member

Saiph wrote:
Oh, got it! I haven't played enough yet to get an implement so I wasn't understanding. Thanks!

And I just got around to asking about them because my Engineer can now craft them, and I had no idea what they where used for, or how to use them. (Grin)

Goblin Squad Member

Yea, see, personally I believe that having an implement with spells/maneuvers opens up a pretty big part of the game. These things are the only true role specific items, along with your armor feat and feature feat, these essentially make your class.

Goblin Squad Member

@Cheatle,

My Engineer has "Introductory Tool Kit", what does that do?

Sovereign Court Goblin Squad Member

Toolkits are expert implements. Since expert expendables aren't in game yet toolkits are pretty useless for now.

Older blog on the matter.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

It's also possible to slot a wand and a spell book in one set of hotkeys, then slot a short sword and a rogue kit in the other set of hotkeys. This way, you could use the wand to cast cantrips and the spell book to cast spells while the enemy is at range, then switch to stabbing the enemy and throwing sand in the its eyes (a rogue maneuver, slotted in the rogue kit) when the enemy enters melee range.

The disadvantage to this play style is the fact that you can only slot one role feature at a time. If you slotted a wizard role feature, your wand and spell book would be more effective than your short sword and rogue kit. If you slotted a rogue class feature, the wand and spell book would be the ones disadvantaged.

Dual roles add versatility at the expense of effectiveness in the role that isn't slotted with a role feat.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Dot'd for reference. Great job Cheatle!

Goblin Squad Member

Anyone know where I train shortsword feats? I have tried everywhere?

Goblin Squad Member

Thieves Guild

Goblin Squad Member

Ok, I've been in game 1 week now and still know next to nothing!

I found out last night in chat that I have been wasting XP buying feats that, while they are the main feat I use in combat, leveling it up has no use to me. This is totally counter-intuitive.

I have started to learn a bit more - my armour feat is now the right one for my role and I have +1 armour so I understand how that part of the feat and skills work.

But weapons feats? I use distant shot a lot, so I assumed leveling that up would improve my damage, but I am told that leveling a weapon feat to level X is pointless unless you have a +X weapon to match it?

Also, I thought I read that if I buy lots of shortbow feats my dexterity will go up? How many do I have to buy?

Is there somewhere that explains the mechanics of the game? I have looked through everything (there are a lot of guides, documents and spreadsheets), but I have not seen anything that says "This is how an armour feat works with your armour; This is how weapons feats work with your weapon; This is how class roles work; This is how implements work; This is how combat works; This is how maneuvers work; etc..." (Ok, I admit, that last one is a joke, no-one has ever seen a maneuver in the wild.) I know the details of these things are changing all the time, but the actual concepts should be pretty much set in stone now.

Goblin Squad Member

I have also been playing for about a week, and neither have I got any grasp on the weapon and armour system. It seems all mentions of it to depend on some logic that never are spelled out int the material I read.

Goblin Squad Member

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I spent a while talking last night with another player and we figured out how the tool tip for our rogue armour feat applied to our armour. This involved a lot of getting naked, a run to the auction house, dragging and dropping UI windows all over the place while they randomly decided whether to auto-wrap the tool tips or not...

I expect a learning curve, but at the moment it's a cliff when it needn't be.

Goblin Squad Member

I haven't played the game in a month due mainly to the strange weapon and armor system. I tried for awhile to grasp it and have simply given up. Being in Alpha is no excuse for a completely counter intuitive system. Such important core mechanics should start out simple and can grow over time, but there is no need for it to be so confusing. I don't like that you have to do key word matching. If I'm training up an armor or weapon feat, I should get better with that weapon or armor, not have to run new equipment I find through some matrix to see if it's an improvement or not. I'm not interested in returning to the game until they improve these systems, and I doubt they'll find many players who make it over the learning curve before giving up in frustration.

Goblin Squad Member

Here this has a frequently asked questions section that might help you, Kradlum

Goblin Squad Member

Tyveil,

All you have to do is match the keyword to your attack to weapon, or your armor to your armor feat. It is as simple as mousing over them both, and comparing.

All they would need is a tutorial that shows you where to look for keywords on your club and clothes, and there you go.

The whole reasoning behind not gaining all that power without the gear, all comes down to balancing the power curve with the economic curve. It is similar in some respects to EVE.

Goblin Squad Member

Having shield-skills line up their keywords with those on Shields, and Longsword skills line up with those on Longswords is probably easy to understand, but things get a little more confusing when Armor Feats, Role Feats (or feature feats?), Implements and Utilities come into play.

And consumables(wondrous items) and General Defensive and General Reactive Feats.

Now only the Armor and Weapons (and Utility in the future) need to have their Keywords matched with the right type of Feat, while the others have effects and boons of their own type, but this is not immediately obvious.

Then you have confusing naming:

The "feature" feats in your Passive Feats window, will actually read like: Heavy Blade Specialization, Bow specialization and such. But if you name over them, you will get a popup that sais: "Fighter Feature: + effects" which explains a bit more. And then off course we call it Roles, because that is basically what these Fighter feats stand for.

Lastly, the Keywords strongly imply having some special effect that is reflected in the name: with "Precise" I would expect an increased chance to hit for instance. But I think this is currently not the case, a matched Weapon Keyword simply improves damage. Maybe in the future.

However, there are no numerical values given of this, which completes the confusion, imo. So there is very little feedback as to what your setup is achieving: the only thing that immediately becomes clear is if you match the right Armor with the correct Armor-feat: your Hitpoints will go up in increments.

I think the system has a nice old school feel, and I am hoping that keywords will get more specific boons in the future. I am not a huge fan of every item simply being something that does "+ some stat". But I sure need some adapting to the fact that Gloves are a Utility and use certain Feats and are not just item #17 that adds more Hitpoints. :)

Goblin Squad Member

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And there quite a lot of redundant information in the tooltip which makes it harder to parse. If I have a letherhosen +0 the only thing I'm intersted in knowing is which keyword it have, the keywords for lederhosen +1 to +X is just information overflow. That info should be in the recipe or something.
Tooltips has to be succinct but clear.
A keyword interface (what keywords are on my character right now) would be heaven for someone starting up and ease the learning curve a tiny bit.

One thing I still haven't wrapped my head around is what happens when I go from Attack feat "Stabb them hard -1" to "Stabb them hard -2" I haven't seen any explanation (or understood that I saw one) aside for the nebulous "you need a +2 equipment for use that...

Do it mean that if I have a Fork+1 with Keyword "Pointy" and "Trippelpointed" with the Combat Feat "Gluttonous" with both those feat I also _must_ have the "Stab them Hard" at level 2 to actually benefit from them both in the attack?

Or am I a babe lost in the dark wood?

Goblin Squad Member

I read Cheatle's FAQ when I first started, but at the time it made no sense to me.

This from Cheatle's FAQ needs to be written in bold at the top of every screen: "If I have a Level 1 Attack, that matches with a basic weapon, but to use a Level 2 Attack I need a +1 Weapon, so that I can utilize the 2nd keyword I got from upgrading."

I have wasted so much XP "leveling" my attacks that have no effect at all as I just have a +0 bow and a +0 sword.

I worked out the similar armour feat stuff last night, so maybe that should be explained in the same way. However, armour feat leveling does give you some advantages without having the +X armour.

I wish there was a way to sell back feats (I think they had that in SWG).

But at least I am learning slowly. By the time OE starts I should be ready... :P

Next question: How do I raise my DEX by 1 or my CON by 1?

Goblin Squad Member

But is the reverse true also do I need a attack 2 to use both keywords on my weapon+1, even if the role feat mention both of them?

Goblin Squad Member

And what about all those +0 bonus mention here and there?

Goblin Squad Member

Schedim wrote:
But is the reverse true also do I need a attack 2 to use both keywords on my weapon+1, even if the role feat mention both of them?

Yes, this is correct.

Attacks match Keywords on Weapons.

Expendables match Keywords on Role Features.

Goblin Squad Member

Schedim wrote:
And what about all those +0 bonus mention here and there?

I'm not sure what you mean. There is a kinda/sorta "bonus" from using a Level 1 Attack with a +0 Weapon because you do match a single Keyword. However, that's required in order to even use the Attack, so it's kinda hard to call it a "bonus".

Goblin Squad Member

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I keep seeing people say they don't understand keywords, and the response is always "It's really easy - just match them!". But I think I'm fairly clever, and I can certainly read pretty well, and the keyword system is still very murky to me.

It would be helpful if the paperdoll used that middle space that currently has a silhouette to indicate which keywords are currently active. It would be great if the tooltips were written in a consistent format that allowed keywords to be easily understood. Is Organic a keyword? The tooltips seem to suggest it is. If a character is wearing leather armor and using a softwood club, they are both Organic - have they matched the keywords? What bonus do they get?

My new wool hat gives the keyword "Vehement", and my mittens give "Fleet". But what does that actually do? 'Cause my stumpy Dwarf legs are certainly not fleet - mobs run right past me to kill the mage I'm trying to protect, although when that happens I do utilize the Vehement keyword to no in-game effect.

Goblin Squad Member

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I wish there were some way to see, in-game, that Utility items' keywords currently have no effect, so folks shouldn't be concerned with them yet.

Goblin Squad Member

I think GW needs to have a better tutorial that at least gives everyone a basic idea, then they need better tool tips that are smart, that tells you which keywords are matching, as well as telling what bonuses you get.

For instance, lets say I am Archer level 4, and I am looking at Soldier's Chainmail +1, and +2, I should be able to mouse over them and see that certain keywords are lit up. Furthermore, it should also indicate the bonuses you get in a + format, like so:

Soldier's Chainmail +1
Tier 1 Medium Armor; grants keywords based on upgrade: Medium (+0), Military (+1), Flexible (+2), Supple (+3)
+110 Hit Points
+42 Power
+2 Fortitude Defense
+4 Reflex Defense
+2 Afflicted, Bleeding, and Exhausted Recovery

Soldier's Chainmail +2
Tier 1 Medium Armor; grants keywords based on upgrade: Medium (+0), Military (+1), Flexible (+2), Supple (+3)
+165 Hit Points
+63 Power
+3 Fortitude Defense
+6 Reflex Defense
+3 Afflicted, Bleeding, and Exhausted Recovery

Goblin Squad Member

But the armour itself doesn't give those bonuses, it's the armour feat that gives those bonuses with the "additional effect for each point of matched armor keywords"

Goblin Squad Member

True, but my point is that if you had Armor Feat Unbreakable, you wouldn't see any bonus at all.

Goblin Squad Member

Or why not drop any keywords, thats not active on an item, heck even the numbers are not neccesary in the tool tip, only the keywords, and the summation of effects.

Then the highlighted keywords would show _currently_ active keywords on the paperdoll.

Goblin Squad Member

Schedim wrote:

Or why not drop any keywords, thats not active on an item, heck even the numbers are not neccesary in the tool tip, only the keywords, and the summation of effects.

Then the highlighted keywords would show _currently_ active keywords on the paperdoll.

Tooltips as they stand are a quick and dirty fix, and they must display the choices in some places ( A crafter needs to know if there's any point making the gear for a person, or at least needs to be able to tell them what feats they should train to use it.)

A time may come when the tooltips are more customized for the needs of the viewer, but for now leaving out any information for one means it's left out for everyone.

Goblin Squad Member

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They have to show the inactive keywords so you know what to get.

Goblin Squad Member

Inactive yes, but a Armour+1, will never become a Armour +2 how many feats and stuff you get. You have to get a new one and thus should check info at the crafter or other source ... At least that is what I think...

Goblin Squad Member

That may be what happens, in the future, but for the moment, having any tooltips at all was done as a quick-fix, and the text is shared across all interfaces.

It absolutely needs to be presented better at some point, but for me it's not a high priority.

Goblin Squad Member

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Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
It absolutely needs to be presented better at some point, but for me it's not a high priority.

For some of us, it is.

There may be tons of information out there describing how everything works, but it is badly organized and cluttered with extraneous information. A simple answer to "What will this armor or feat actually do?" should not require looking up 3 different player-generated unofficial documents on different websites, and should not require recognizing that quite a bit of the official information presented in the actual game does not apply because the armor/feat/whatever is not +3.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

It feels like people want a short explanation that covers everything. If that were possible, the system wouldn't have the depth to keep people engaged for a long time.

Goblin Squad Member

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DeciusBrutus wrote:
It feels like people want a short explanation that covers everything. If that were possible, the system wouldn't have the depth to keep people engaged for a long time.

I would like the abundance of people stating they don't understand one of the fundamental concepts of the system to be recognized as a sign that the decidedly non-short answers that are available are not sufficient.

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