Need more inflict and crow, how get?


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


title. Recently picked up the base set and got a couple friends into this. EXTREMELY fun! I play as kyra and she would be fantastic if I had more inflict spells or crow allies. Ive been looking all over and I can't seem to find a site like starcitygames (for mtg) for pathfinder
:(

Help me find something or any advice is appreciated! Thanks!


The game is meant to be played with only what comes in the box. You won't find single cards for sale, except for promo cards, and you are only meant to play with one each of those.


Your first option would be to buy the character add-on deck, since it contains both cards. The class decks are another option. You can use them to add more cards to the game. Though no single class deck contains both those cards.

I'm not aware of any site that sells individual cards, and it isn't really that kind of game in my opinion. Though I suppose someone could buy a base set and then sell off the individual cards.

Sovereign Court

You aren't likely to find a place to get more of a card, because this isn't a collectible card game. You aren't intended to play with what comes in the box, plus any promo cards. You can of course, but they aren't built to be played that way in a balanced manner in the case of every card. Believe me, by the time you get through adventure 2, you aren't going to want the inflicts, or probably even the crow.


thanks for the advice and such! Coming from mtg it just made the most sense to get 3 of a card i needed somewhere haha. Anyway thanks again for the help


*Abashed*

I simply bought a second base set...

XD

I, too, feel like there should be more Inflicts or similiar cards in RotR, as well as a few other types of cards. Fortunately, there is a cheaper and more "legal" way to do it - class decks can sometimes contain the cards you want and you're allowed to add them to your box per the rules.*

The Cleric Class Deck contains Inflict, Holy Light, and one other early adventure path Divine attack spell (Fire Blade, I think?). The Bard Deck also has at least one (Inflict also?).

I reccomend getting Class Decks for the extra Characters anyway. Think of them as $5 characters and the $20 for a deck doesn't sound too bad... all the other cards are a bonus.

---

*They do not, however, include banes, which was a huge chunk of the reason I got a second base set.

Sovereign Court

I forgot the Divine class deck had spells when I saw... I think the Cleric's level 6 spell, that let you roll Divine + d8 + d10 + d12. Jeebus!


I have mixed feelings on this one. I like the thought of combining sets/decks to get more of each card. However, part of the game balance in PACG is achieved by limiting the availability of certain cards. Is it ok to have 4 inflicts? Probably. Is it ok to add an extra holy candle or two? Probably not.

The thing that causes my mixed feelings is I'm not sure where the line should be between cards that are ok to add multiples of and cards that really should not have any more added.


"However, part of the game balance in PACG is achieved by limiting the availability of certain cards."

Yes, exactly, though there's no rules on adding cards that you're allowed to play to the base set that I'm aware of (from addons, class decks, etc.).
I find one of the challenges of the game is having to use cards that you don't really want. S&S comes with 2 flame blades, but Alahazra wants more, but she can't have it, so she ends up having to experiment with things she doesn't really want. It's similar to the actual RPG in my opinion.


Jonah G wrote:

"However, part of the game balance in PACG is achieved by limiting the availability of certain cards."

Yes, exactly, though there's no rules on adding cards that you're allowed to play to the base set that I'm aware of (from addons, class decks, etc.).
I find one of the challenges of the game is having to use cards that you don't really want. S&S comes with 2 flame blades, but Alahazra wants more, but she can't have it, so she ends up having to experiment with things she doesn't really want. It's similar to the actual RPG in my opinion.

The Class Decks specifically allow you to add their cards to any base set.

And there are 3 Fire Blades in S&S (or in mine at least). I think one is in the Character Add-on, though.


Although most of the discussions in other threads suggest you're not supposed to JUST add the 3 or 4 boons you want whilst ignoring the others, so you've still got to find and acquire them...


MightyJim wrote:
Although most of the discussions in other threads suggest you're not supposed to JUST add the 3 or 4 boons you want whilst ignoring the others, so you've still got to find and acquire them...

You do have to find and acquire them, but you're certainly not supposed to have to put the entire class deck into the base set. Things quickly get out of hand with the numbers of boons when you start looking at other class decks.

EDIT: I'm not a dev, so I could be mistaken. But simple logic suggests I'm right...


Orbis Orboros wrote:
MightyJim wrote:
Although most of the discussions in other threads suggest you're not supposed to JUST add the 3 or 4 boons you want whilst ignoring the others, so you've still got to find and acquire them...

You do have to find and acquire them, but you're certainly not supposed to have to put the entire class deck into the base set. Things quickly get out of hand with the numbers of boons when you start looking at other class decks.

EDIT: I'm not a dev, so I could be mistaken. But simple logic suggests I'm right...

Mike has posted that the unofficial intent is that you add all or nothing in order to keep the power levels balanced, but the overall rule is and has always been that it is your game and your experience so do what feels right.


JBiggs78 wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:
MightyJim wrote:
Although most of the discussions in other threads suggest you're not supposed to JUST add the 3 or 4 boons you want whilst ignoring the others, so you've still got to find and acquire them...

You do have to find and acquire them, but you're certainly not supposed to have to put the entire class deck into the base set. Things quickly get out of hand with the numbers of boons when you start looking at other class decks.

EDIT: I'm not a dev, so I could be mistaken. But simple logic suggests I'm right...

Mike has posted that the unofficial intent is that you add all or nothing in order to keep the power levels balanced, but the overall rule is and has always been that it is your game and your experience so do what feels right.

That's odd to me. I understand the idea of adding crappy cards as well as powerful cards, but to have to add the entire CD gets out of hand if you don't want to show just one class some love.

Maybe I'll make a deal with myself - for every good card, I have to add one (maybe two) crappy cards. IDK.

Thanks for sharing that though. I don't suppose you have a link so I can read how he worded things?


I'd probably go 1-to-1, but even that'd hurt. Already sick of turning over Noxious Bombs while we dream of Old Salt Bandanas and Potions of Heroism.


Or just swap out a card that you think is of equal value to the card you are putting in.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Or just swap out a card that you think is of equal value to the card you are putting in.

That seems a slippery slope.

"Hey guys, It's alright with you if I swap out a Boarding Pike for a Fireblade, right? They're about the same power level, Fireblade might even be weaker."
"But none of us can even use weapons."
"Shhh..."

...But then I suppose it's self policing either way, so why not.


Well, I meant of the same type, though I didn't say it. So if you want Fireblade, swap out another spell of similar "power level". I'd say at least use the check to acquire and adventure deck number as part of factors in doing so.


Orbis Orboros wrote:
JBiggs78 wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:
MightyJim wrote:
Although most of the discussions in other threads suggest you're not supposed to JUST add the 3 or 4 boons you want whilst ignoring the others, so you've still got to find and acquire them...

You do have to find and acquire them, but you're certainly not supposed to have to put the entire class deck into the base set. Things quickly get out of hand with the numbers of boons when you start looking at other class decks.

EDIT: I'm not a dev, so I could be mistaken. But simple logic suggests I'm right...

Mike has posted that the unofficial intent is that you add all or nothing in order to keep the power levels balanced, but the overall rule is and has always been that it is your game and your experience so do what feels right.

That's odd to me. I understand the idea of adding crappy cards as well as powerful cards, but to have to add the entire CD gets out of hand if you don't want to show just one class some love.

Maybe I'll make a deal with myself - for every good card, I have to add one (maybe two) crappy cards. IDK.

Thanks for sharing that though. I don't suppose you have a link so I can read how he worded things?

It was here.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rkjb?Using-Boons-from-class-decks-in-Skulls-an d#28

I don't think there is a wrong way to do it, but I do believe that makes the devs intent at least fairly clear.


I see. Thanks!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Orbis Orboros wrote:

*Abashed*

I simply bought a second base set...

XD

Wait a second.... are you telling me that you've been adding duplicates of the cards you like from another Base Set, all this time that you've been complaining that the game is too easy?!?

Sovereign Court

Well, he says he also added some banes. Although, I'd be interested to see the ratio between the two, and how many of those banes were things like chests and other beneficial barriers.

Vic, one thing I have noticed is that most people who thought the game was too easy are either intentionally or unintentionally doing something to give them an advantage over how the game should be played as it was balanced by you guys. Of course, if it's fun for them great.


It always sounded like it moved the difficulty down, even with added banes. More hard banes don't affect the difficulty nearly as much as more good boons since you don't change the ratio of boons to banes in the location and you'll never encounter more than one bane at a time. Being more likely to have a better card in your hand is more beneficial than running into a second tough bane on your turn is detrimental.


I think the bulk of RotR was fairy easy (but still amazing fun). S&S is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. Very pleased with the increased difficulty here.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:

*Abashed*

I simply bought a second base set...

XD

Wait a second.... are you telling me that you've been adding duplicates of the cards you like from another Base Set, all this time that you've been complaining that the game is too easy?!?

Come now, give me some credit!

I did indeed add some cards, but they were things like Inflict, so that builds like a divine spellcaster could be made effectively. But honestly this was mostly because I had them laying around - I actually bought the second base set to customize the bane ratios to make the game harder. Things like fewer bugbears and more enchanters. I did this because the game was too easy - the game wasn't too easy because I did this.

And it's not like I added Holy Candles or anything.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:

*Abashed*

I simply bought a second base set...

XD

Wait a second.... are you telling me that you've been adding duplicates of the cards you like from another Base Set, all this time that you've been complaining that the game is too easy?!?

Great answer Vic (if I may)!

My guess is that if you just double all cards (i. e. adding a LOT of basic and so on), thus keeping the ratios, you aren't really modifying the difficulty (true you can end up with two Holy Candles, but you gonna have a long long time with only encountering basic daggers before you get there.
IMHO what would really spoil the game would be to select the doubles you buy.

Sovereign Court

Orbis Orboros wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:

*Abashed*

I simply bought a second base set...

XD

Wait a second.... are you telling me that you've been adding duplicates of the cards you like from another Base Set, all this time that you've been complaining that the game is too easy?!?

Come now, give me some credit!

I did indeed add some cards, but they were things like Inflict, so that builds like a divine spellcaster could be made effectively. But honestly this was mostly because I had them laying around - I actually bought the second base set to customize the bane ratios to make the game harder. Things like fewer bugbears and more enchanters. I did this because the game was too easy - the game wasn't too easy because I did this.

And it's not like I added Holy Candles or anything.

I just finished my RotR run with only Lini last night, as a combat spellcaster from day one, the only exception being always keeping a Cure around, and later on a Find Traps. I stomped the first four adventures, and only slightly struggled in 5 and 6. Very effective even solo with one set. I will point out, I trashed things like Resto and Toad every time I got them.

Maybe it's less that the casters can't be built effectively, and more that your playstyle doesn't allow it?


Andrew K wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:

*Abashed*

I simply bought a second base set...

XD

Wait a second.... are you telling me that you've been adding duplicates of the cards you like from another Base Set, all this time that you've been complaining that the game is too easy?!?

Come now, give me some credit!

I did indeed add some cards, but they were things like Inflict, so that builds like a divine spellcaster could be made effectively. But honestly this was mostly because I had them laying around - I actually bought the second base set to customize the bane ratios to make the game harder. Things like fewer bugbears and more enchanters. I did this because the game was too easy - the game wasn't too easy because I did this.

And it's not like I added Holy Candles or anything.

I just finished my RotR run with only Lini last night, as a combat spellcaster from day one, the only exception being always keeping a Cure around, and later on a Find Traps. I stomped the first four adventures, and only slightly struggled in 5 and 6. Very effective even solo with one set. I will point out, I trashed things like Resto and Toad every time I got them.

Maybe it's less that the casters can't be built effectively, and more that your playstyle doesn't allow it?

There are only two divine attack spells, and only 4 in the entire box until Swipe comes up. I simply felt that wasn't enough.

But again, I wanted more banes and simply decided, why not add more of the stuff I wish there was more of as well? Provided I don't break the game, of course.

It really wasn't much different than what class decks allow you to do, anyway. Except I added banes in addition.

Silver Crusade

I think adding more cards to S&S is going to have a more beneficial effect. The plunder mechanic make it easy to go through a lot of cards to get the good ones, especially in some scenarios where you get a lot of plunder. Extra banes won't cancel that out as the location ration dosen't change (as someone said earlier). Then when you get into higher adventures, those non-basic boons will stick around while you are banishing the basics.


noretoc wrote:

I think adding more cards to S&S is going to have a more beneficial effect. The plunder mechanic make it easy to go through a lot of cards to get the good ones, especially in some scenarios where you get a lot of plunder. Extra banes won't cancel that out as the location ration dosen't change (as someone said earlier). Then when you get into higher adventures, those non-basic boons will stick around while you are banishing the basics.

I think the plunder is a wash because S&S locations tend to have a higher bane:boon ratio.

Sovereign Court

Orbis Orboros wrote:
It really wasn't much different than what class decks allow you to do, anyway. Except I added banes in addition.

Except for the fact that class decks are actually built and balanced specifically for that. Throwing in extra cards and trying to do it yourself, not so much.


Andrew K wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:
It really wasn't much different than what class decks allow you to do, anyway. Except I added banes in addition.
Except for the fact that class decks are actually built and balanced specifically for that. Throwing in extra cards and trying to do it yourself, not so much.

Considering that every boon I added is in a class deck somewhere, I think I did a pretty good job, personally. :P

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Orbis Orboros wrote:
Andrew K wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:

*Abashed*

I simply bought a second base set...

XD

Wait a second.... are you telling me that you've been adding duplicates of the cards you like from another Base Set, all this time that you've been complaining that the game is too easy?!?

Come now, give me some credit!

I did indeed add some cards, but they were things like Inflict, so that builds like a divine spellcaster could be made effectively. But honestly this was mostly because I had them laying around - I actually bought the second base set to customize the bane ratios to make the game harder. Things like fewer bugbears and more enchanters. I did this because the game was too easy - the game wasn't too easy because I did this.

And it's not like I added Holy Candles or anything.

I just finished my RotR run with only Lini last night, as a combat spellcaster from day one, the only exception being always keeping a Cure around, and later on a Find Traps. I stomped the first four adventures, and only slightly struggled in 5 and 6. Very effective even solo with one set. I will point out, I trashed things like Resto and Toad every time I got them.

Maybe it's less that the casters can't be built effectively, and more that your playstyle doesn't allow it?

There are only two divine attack spells, and only 4 in the entire box until Swipe comes up. I simply felt that wasn't enough.

But again, I wanted more banes and simply decided, why not add more of the stuff I wish there was more of as well? Provided I don't break the game, of course.

It really wasn't much different than what class decks allow you to do, anyway. Except I added banes in addition.

Putting more Divine Attack spells in the box is *changing the balance of the game*, no matter what else you're doing to balance that out. How the designers limit the card pool is a *big* part of what they do.

I'me very frustrated that you've been probably the single most vocal person on the boards when it comes to bashing parts of the game, calling out cards that you would never use, bragging about how nothing is a challenge, complaining about some cards being overpowered... and after all this it turns out you're using a nonstandard play environment. Of *course* you wouldn't use some cards when you're giving yourself better choices that other players don't have. Of *course* some cards are going to be broken when you have more of them than we intended. Of *course* you're never going to worry about defeating any monsters when you do things like giving your Divine casters more Attack spells than we put in the game.

I feel like every critical post you've ever made should come with a disclaimer: "Note: I'm playing a different game than everyone else."


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Vic Wertz wrote:

Putting more Divine Attack spells in the box is *changing the balance of the game*, no matter what else you're doing to balance that out. How the designers limit the card pool is a *big* part of what they do.

I'me very frustrated that you've been probably the single most vocal person on the boards when it comes to bashing parts of the game, calling out cards that you would never use, bragging about how nothing is a challenge, complaining about some cards being overpowered... and after all this it turns out you're using a nonstandard play environment. Of *course* you wouldn't use some cards when you're giving yourself better choices that other players don't have. Of *course* some cards are going to be broken when you have more of them than we intended. Of *course* you're never going to worry about defeating any monsters when you do things like giving your Divine casters more Attack spells than we put in the game.

I feel like every critical post you've ever made should come with a disclaimer: "Note: I'm playing a different game than everyone else."

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'd like to explain some things however, as I feel there are some misconceptions here.

My opinions *are* based on the default version of the game. I mark every card I add with a dot in the bottom corner on the front so that I can easily remove them at will, which is often. Any time someone is playing for the first time, and the vast majority of the time I'm not solitaring it up for the heck of it we play the regular way. I do NOT play with an altered box all the time or even most of the time. Just sometimes. And never when it comes to anything like playtesting an idea or whatnot. It's more of a casual exercise I sometimes do (like how some players like to play homebrew characters). And I've never done it with S&S.

I'd also like to apologize for the impression I seem to have given. I'm a vocal person on forums I feel comfortable in, and I tend to get passionate when I'm arguing my point. Also, a large majority of my posts are supposed to sound humorous. I'm sorry if it sounds like... well, if it sounds like I'm a jerk or something. I do love the game. I don't mean it to sound like I'm bashing it so hard. I just get excitable, I guess. And I would like to say that, overall, you guys do a great job of balancing. If I'm saying this sucks or that is overpowered, it's probably just barely that way - but that sticks out to me because you guys do a great job.

I feel I've been rubbing you the wrong way for quite some time now and I had no idea. This was not my intent and I apologize. But please, do not doubt the following points:

* I love this game. No matter how much I seem to bash a part of it, complain about one thing or another, I think this game is fantastic.

* I understand how the game plays without my "tweaks," shall we say. You can trust my opinions based on the true version of the game rather than my tweaked game. Anytime one of my opinions is different based on my tweaks, I say so (see pretty much any post of mine concerning Ring of Protection). Put your mind at ease concerning whether to trust what I say based on if I tweaked the game or not.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

I do know you're very passionate about the game. But I also wonder if there have been people who have looked in on these boards trying to determine whether or not they might like the game who have been turned off on it because they've run into one or more of the many posts from you saying that it's too easy, or because you have them thinking that they need to make changes to the game to make it fun.


Vic Wertz wrote:
I do know you're very passionate about the game. But I also wonder if there have been people who have looked in on these boards trying to determine whether or not they might like the game who have been turned off on it because they've run into one or more of the many posts from you saying that it's too easy, or because you have them thinking that they need to make changes to the game to make it fun.

Have I really been that loud about it being too easy? I didn't think that topic was one I commented on much.

Completely regardless, I'll bear that in mind and adjust my posts accordingly.


I can't say how other people might have taken posts by Orbis but I've never thought them really critical of the game ... I mean he bought two Rotr sets so that says something, right?

One of the great things about PACG is that you can make it into so many different things. The OP was thinking of the game kinda like Magic or maybe lotr where people buy extra sets so they can make *their* game cool (I know I did).

Grand Lodge

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I'm not going to throw Orbis under the bus but I can see Vic's frustration. When he and the developers read the comments posted on here, they take them to heart. They're trying to sell a game as well as making it better. So when they see people posting that it's too easy, they look to see how they can adjust it. They worry that people won't buy it based on what we say.

So while it is true that we can play the game the way we want to, we should be giving adjusted feedback when we are messing around with the card base.

I pretty much gloss over posts talking about adjusting the card base because I prefer to play with the set as designed. And while others have bought additional sets to change the available cards, it is changing the game and puts things out of designed balance. Even when the rulebook says you can add the class deck cards to the base, that's not for me. And while I found some scenarios easy, others were tough and we won by the skin of our teeth. It was a challenge overall.

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