Hello all;
In two I am starting a new campaign. I will be playing a magus (for the first time ever) I'm pretty sure I will be doing the Dex based route (because I like dex based fighters).
What I am wondering though should I do straight Magus or should I tack on the Kensai Archetype? I am not sure if I do it having never played a Magus before.
So I am asking is it worth taking or should I stick with a straight Magus?
Thanks.
Most magi will probably only use one weapon. (I play an exception.)
However, keep in mind that the Magus does not get Mage Armor (unless you use the Spell Blending arcana) and can't wear armor. Perhaps some actual straight-magus or kensai players will chime in with more; I have a hexcrafter.
Kensai is fun, but unless you dip monk/find a different way to give you the AC you would be getting from armour the AC and spell loss is not completely made up for by the abilities kensai gives you. Since you are going dex magus remember to take flamboyant arcana and arcane deed(Precise Strike), in fact don't forget to take arcane deed(Evasive) to be effectively immune to sneak attacks and gain evasion at higher levels. Also if you do dip monk, dip monk of many styles and get pummeling style and martial versatility later to give yourself more options because of your reduced spells.
Kensai is insanely fun. The AC bit is somewhat hazardous but you just gotta be careful to not get flanked and such. Basically avoid being flat footed as much as possible. Ture you can't wear armour but I think canny defense can make up for it. Since instead of armour you can buy Int headbands. But eventually you'll want the normal "non armour" defense items. amy of natural armour, bracers of armour, stuff like that.
I am not kensai master but I've always played it as ever moving. Due to Being able to spend 2 points and increasing crit multiplier and being able to spell strike I didn't mind losing full attacks when there were multiple baddies out and about.
If you don't mind the level dip. My suggestion: Start with lv 1 Inspiried blade Swashbuckler. This gains you weapon focus and weapon finesse with a rapier. It also graints you panache off your int. Snag combat reflexes (so you have more than one AOO). You can now [parry and reposte=spoiler]Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity; for each size category the attacking creature is larger than the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler takes a –2 penalty on this roll. If her result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses. The swashbuckler must declare the use of this ability after the creature's attack is announced, but before its attack roll is made. Upon performing a successful parry and if she has at least 1 panache point, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action make an attack against the creature whose attack she parried, provided that creature is within her reach. [/spoiler]. This will let you hopefully deflect various attacks that you get from moving or being being in melee. You won't always want to reposte of course, the magus has many many uses for swift actions. But being able to deflect damage is utterly great. Doding panache isn't bad either, it can be combined with parry to block the first attack of a full attack and then step 5ft away. So if the enemy has used their 5ft action already you dodged the rest of the full attack.
Have you eyed Bladebound ? I think they stack and that sword is 8 kinds of tasty most of the time.
Also here is a kensai guide; though I haven't actuall read it yet.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NzctTRYgBVzNanNnzSpOCdTyifV3elCgpkBeayu a97s/pub
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cheechako wrote: Most magi will probably only use one weapon. (I play an exception.)
However, keep in mind that the Magus does not get Mage Armor (unless you use the Spell Blending arcana) and can't wear armor. Perhaps some actual straight-magus or kensai players will chime in with more; I have a hexcrafter.
The Magus can wear armor; the Kensai cannot. The Hexcrafter actually can, so go get yourself some Studded Leather.
To me, there are a couple of major decisions that will affect whether or not you go Kensai (and even Hexcrafter):
-Where do you fall in Dexterity vs. Armor? A Magus can wear Light armor from first level, Medium armor starting at level 7, and Heavy armor at 13. Thus, if you're not keen on making heavy use of your Dexterity, you might be best off eventually getting something like Celestial Mail or even straight-up Fullplate for your armor of choice, for best protection. In terms of straight AC, a Magus has more AC in the beginning, then a Kensai can pull ahead in the mid-game, and the Magus takes it home in the end.
-Where do you fall in Stabbing vs. Casting? Kensai are better martial characters, due to free Weapon Focus, the ability to start with an Exotic (and thus generally better) weapon, and more combat-oriented abilities, while the straight Magus has more spells per day available and more spell-oriented abilities (Spell Recall, Knowledge Pool).
-How high is your Int stat? A normal Magus, if they really feel the need, can skate by with a mere 16 Int. A Kensai needs as much Int as they can get their hands on, to help counteract their lost spells per day, to fuel a lot of their abilities, and to keep them alive.
-Do you like Spell Recall? If not, but you decide against the Kensai, the Hexcrafter becomes an inherently better choice.
Of course, there's some variance. My Kensai is actually more focused on casting. Plotted out to 20, a Kensai has 18 feats/arcanas to pick out. Of them, five of hers will be martial-oriented, ten casting-oriented, and three defense/utility oriented. However, I decided on Kensai largely because of relatively high Dex and Int stats. That means I don't necessarily want armor (and certainly don't want Heavy armor; even Medium would be pushing it), but have the Int to keep her alive in the long run regardless, as well as plenty of Int to fuel the rest of her abilities. At the same time, while I like Spell Recall I'm not as enamoured with it on the third or fourth reading as I was on the first, and Knowledge Pool is amusing but not fantastic. And, finally, I rather like the flavor of the Kensai.
kestral287 wrote: The Magus can wear armor; the Kensai cannot. The Hexcrafter actually can, so go get yourself some Studded Leather. Opps. I meant the magus doesn't get Mage Armor, and that can be a bigger deal for the Kensi.
As for my magus, I'll stick with the mithral shirt over studded leather.
cheechako wrote: kestral287 wrote: The Magus can wear armor; the Kensai cannot. The Hexcrafter actually can, so go get yourself some Studded Leather. Opps. I meant the magus doesn't get Mage Armor, and that can be a bigger deal for the Kensi.
As for my magus, I'll stick with the mithral shirt over studded leather. Even better. Figured I'd suggest the cheap stuff because I had no clue what level your character was.
Mage Armor is... less of an issue than what it could be, I think. Magi /do/ get Shield, as a one-encounter Mage Armor. A Kensai can wear a Haramaki without penalty for +1 AC, and later on can enchant it up (or they can go with Bracers of Armor, should they so desire). The really early encounters, in my experience, can be solved by either a well-placed Color Spray for mook swarms or a Shield spell for fights that you think can go longer. By the time Color Spray starts falling off you have more AC off of Canny Defense and easier access to some battlefield control, plus hard-hitting attack spells for dealing lots of damage. You still can't rush in blindly, of course, but you're not made of paper at least.
Admittedly, the first feat I grabbed was Armor of the Pit for +2 Natural Armor.
cheechako wrote: Opps. I meant the magus doesn't get Mage Armor, and that can be a bigger deal for the Kensi. Nah, it's not a big deal for kensai. They add their Int as a dodge bonus to AC, and can still at least wear a haramaki or silken ceremonial armor. Since a magus is incentivized to just dervish dance, you should also have high Dex. You can have about 17 AC at level 1 (21 with Shield). My kensai at level 6 has about 27 working AC in combat. I haven't even worked on any AC gear yet.
17 is the highest most Kensai can reasonably hit at level one-- +5 Dex, +1 Int, +1 armor (via Haramaki). The highest I can figure possible barring really outlandish stuff or a lot of money is 19, via adding Armor of the Pit for +2 Natural Armor. Couple races with +1 Natural Armor should be able to get to 18.
Oh, for the purposes of non-PFS: If your game is Mythic, go Kensai. Enduring Armor is always-on scaling Mage Armor (3+tier as a force-effect armor bonus), Arcane Potency and just having a higher Int stat helps get you more spells to accommodate for the other downside of the Kensai.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dispari Scuro wrote: cheechako wrote: Opps. I meant the magus doesn't get Mage Armor, and that can be a bigger deal for the Kensi. Nah, it's not a big deal for kensai. They add their Int as a dodge bonus to AC, and can still at least wear a haramaki or silken ceremonial armor. Since a magus is incentivized to just dervish dance, you should also have high Dex. You can have about 17 AC at level 1 (21 with Shield). My kensai at level 6 has about 27 working AC in combat. I haven't even worked on any AC gear yet. Keep in mind that the Int boost kicks in at a one per level stage.
I considered going kensai with my PFS bladebound character, but ultimately decided because I wanted her to be kept more magical in nature. The Kensai gives up a LOT of magus magic for it's martial tricks. and I was already giving up an arcana and taking a slow down in arcane pool progression.
You can hit the 17 with only +1 AC from Int at level 1. I worked it out in an above post. 27 at level 6 is a tougher stretch without getting some natural armor in the equation but with some items (stat-boosting or straight up armor boosting) it's very possible.
Kensai magus with the right arcana and feats can be loads of fun.
ofcourse magi in general are loads of fun.
Having Seen a few of both i think the kensai is superior for a martial focused magus. Your AC is going to ultimately blow other magus out of the water in short order, and your touch ac(you'll be the tank vs incorporeal) will be amazing. Remember you can still wear a haramaki without penalty, which is only a 3 point gap in ac which will be more than made up for through your int. If you have a wizard or someone with mage armor you can have them hit you with it until your armor is better (which will be a while). I find most parties have someone who can cast mage armor.
You are behind on spells but pearls (Especially first level) are super cheap, so unless it's a really long day you still shouldn't really run out of spells anymore than the normal one.
Both are viable choices though and one isn't that much better than the other.
kestral287 wrote: You can hit the 17 with only +1 AC from Int at level 1. I worked it out in an above post. 27 at level 6 is a tougher stretch without getting some natural armor in the equation but with some items (stat-boosting or straight up armor boosting) it's very possible. Shield (the spell) is +4, and Cat's Grace is +2 (and +2 damage if you're dervish dancing). If you really stretch it, Reduce Person is another +2. By that level you also have stuff like Mirror Image and Blur, so even if your AC isn't 27, you probably won't get hit.
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