parry and dodging panache same round


Rules Questions


so, dodging panache:

Quote:
Dodging Panache (Ex): At 1st level, when an opponent attempts a melee attack against the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action spend 1 panache point to move 5 feet; doing so grants the swashbuckler a dodge bonus to AC equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 0) against the triggering attack. This movement doesn't negate the attack, which is still resolved as if the swashbuckler had not moved from the original square. This movement is not a 5-foot step; it provokes attacks of opportunity from creatures other than the one who triggered this deed. The swashbuckler can only perform this deed while wearing light or no armor, and while carrying no heavier than a light load.

and riposte and parry (only interested in the 1st section of it):

Quote:
At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity; for each size category the attacking creature is larger than the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler takes a –2 penalty on this roll. If her result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses.

can you call opportune parry, and if you roll low, use your immidiate action to activate dodging panache?


I don't see why not granted, thats a lot of panache used in one round.


No. Both trigger off "when an opponent makes a melee attack". If one fails, you can't trigger the other.


Tarantula wrote:
No. Both trigger off "when an opponent makes a melee attack". If one fails, you can't trigger the other.

I know you can't have two AoO activate off the same trigger but its only one AoO being used the other is immediate action. I don't really see the issue with this.


it's all about WHEN you call them.

that's why i am confused


havoc xiii wrote:
Tarantula wrote:
No. Both trigger off "when an opponent makes a melee attack". If one fails, you can't trigger the other.
I know you can't have two AoO activate off the same trigger but its only one AoO being used the other is immediate action. I don't really see the issue with this.

I see it as "when they make the attack" you can trigger an ability. Once that ability fails, the attack then resolves. Sort of like ready actions. I accept that this might not be supported the rules. But I see it as RAI at the very least.


One says when they attempt and one says when thry attack. Small distinction true but one is before the attack and one is in responce to the attack.


So, so far it's 2v1

Anyone else willing to chime in?


Tarantula wrote:
havoc xiii wrote:
Tarantula wrote:
No. Both trigger off "when an opponent makes a melee attack". If one fails, you can't trigger the other.
I know you can't have two AoO activate off the same trigger but its only one AoO being used the other is immediate action. I don't really see the issue with this.
I see it as "when they make the attack" you can trigger an ability. Once that ability fails, the attack then resolves. Sort of like ready actions. I accept that this might not be supported the rules. But I see it as RAI at the very least.

This makes the most sense, but that might be the card game player in me.

Sczarni

It's getting easier to compare the rules of this game to the "stack" from M:TG.


Nefreet wrote:
It's getting easier to compare the rules of this game to the "stack" from M:TG.

If only, MTG has much better rules focus.

Grand Lodge

Onyxlion wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
It's getting easier to compare the rules of this game to the "stack" from M:TG.
If only, MTG has much better rules focus.

Well, yeah. MtG has a 207 page rulebook laid out like legal text, which makes it a slog to read through.

Grand Lodge

Jeff Merola wrote:
Onyxlion wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
It's getting easier to compare the rules of this game to the "stack" from M:TG.
If only, MTG has much better rules focus.
Well, yeah. MtG has a 207 page rulebook laid out like legal text, which makes it a slog to read through.

I'd rather have that then what pathfinder has with supposedly identical abilities that have different wordings.

Grand Lodge

claudekennilol wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
Onyxlion wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
It's getting easier to compare the rules of this game to the "stack" from M:TG.
If only, MTG has much better rules focus.
Well, yeah. MtG has a 207 page rulebook laid out like legal text, which makes it a slog to read through.
I'd rather have that then what pathfinder has with supposedly identical abilities that have different wordings.

Then the Pathfinder Core would probably be over a thousand pages long, and you wouldn't be able to take any action that wasn't explicitly permitted in the rules.


You can parry with a usage of AOO. You can use the immediate action to move away from any following attacks.
you can not however reposte as that is also an immediate action.

Also this isnt' like a ready action. You can trigger as many things as you like when they hit you. The only distinction is the action used in response.


I agree with Zwordsman exactly. (Necroooooo...)

Dodging Panache is a triggered ability. Opportune Parry and Riposte is an ability that you can use to counter another creatures action. The only restriction would be that you'd be limited to the Parry portion, as your Immediate action is used up.

You would have to do all of this before knowing what the enemy rolled.

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