How do you deal (as a player, not a DM in this case) with players who are hostile towards you just as a rule? Its not like either player is evil or malicious, but the other people just really dont like your pc? For example, ally paladin choses not to lay on hands me because he thinks I'm evil (I'm not) which almost kills me (2hp from the grave). He also attacked me when I fled an encounter that, if not for gm fiat, would have been a tpk. Wat do?
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Talk to the player and the GM. Find out their side of the story and see if there is a way to create a less hostile game environment.
If the GM likes Player vs Player and encourages it to continue, find a different group.
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The arrogance of men is thinking nature is in their control and not the other way around. Let them fight.
- Dr Serizawa
I of course say that because I'm an evolutionist summoner... I tend to have the upper hand in such events... And I never discouraging bailing on a party thats too foolish to run away from a losing battle.
This sounds like an in-character dispute, so you have the option to resolve it in-character. The paladin obviously finds you morally questionable, at best, so that gives you two options: prove to the paladin that you are a good person, or just don't rely on the paladin for help.
Keep in mind that the paladin is obligated to not help you if you consistently offend his moral code. If he really thinks you are evil, or even not evil but morally offensive, he could fall if he aids you. Healing you because "we're in the same party" is borderline metagaming.
Try to find a fun way to come up with an in-character resolution to this problem. Something that would be an in-character way to show your paladin that your not-evil character is not evil.
(Also note, this type of situation is why I would always poll the party before deciding to play a paladin. They are just not a good fit for every party, as they are specifically barred from working with people they find morally offensive.)
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Fleeing combat is not evil, and attacking someone for fleeing is not a good act (may be borderline evil). Unless he's a paladin of a war deity, he should be facing some religious penitence.
Most importantly, instead of attacking you (thereby taking focus away from the bad guys and endangering his other allies), he should have let you flee, find you later, and determine why you fled. If you fled for an innocuous reason, like almost dead or under a fear spell or something like that, then as a palidin he should give you a minor penitence to undergo. Perhaps saying a few prayers. If it was a major offense (betrayal of alies at a key moment), he may have to bring you in for justice. Either way, shifting focus to kill you in the battle field is dangerous and reckless and should require penitence from him to his own god. If he did it out of anger, then major penitence would be require.
A potential ally and traveling partner should be someone the paladin views as a potential convert; not an enemy. If he truly believes you are evil, why hasn't he brought you to the nearest judge and have you brought up on charges? What is his evidence? Or does he just foolishly believe it to be true; ergo it's true (another action that should require penitence).
Step one is to talk about it out of game. If you are in a game with people who don't like you, leave. If they are just roleplaying and expect friction, either leave or fight. If after talking it out you don't get the impression people are being honest, leave.
Step two is PVP if you haven't left or talked it out.
First you need to discern if it is a character issue or a player issue. If the player is role playing his character and is acting in a hostile manner in character, then I believe you would need to respond to that player in character. Consider how your character would feel about such actions and respond accordingly. For example, would he actually continue traveling with a group, into dangerous dungeons, with someone who was willing to let him die? Consider your characters personality and his background, then respond in character.
If you believe this is a continuous problem with the player that seems to trickle into every character they play, then I would have an out of character conversation.
(Note) I would not request that a player stop playing his character how he thinks it should be role played, just because I didn’t like the characters personality. With regards of his actions being in sync with that of a paladin, I would leave that to the GM.
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If I were your GM, I would strip the paladin of his powers for violating his alignment. Unless you take action that is overtly evil (not cowardly, evil) then refusing to save a life when he could, even an evil one (which you are not)would constitute a violation severe enough to revoke paladin powers until an atonement had been made.
Step one is to talk about it out of game. If you are in a game with people who don't like you, leave. If they are just roleplaying and expect friction, either leave or fight. If after talking it out you don't get the impression people are being honest, leave.
Step two is PVP if you haven't left or talked it out.
First part is right, second part is wrong.
Sit down and talk to the player OOC, like adults.
A Paladin attacking a party member for fleeing danger seems wrong to me. You might want to talk to the other player and the DM about the inappropriate behavior.
On the other hand, if it seems like the group likes the Paladin PC and dislikes your PC I guess you could also consider changing PCs.
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he thinks I'm evil (I'm not)
If you're actually not evil - how in the world does the Paladin not know it? He has freakin' detect evil at wil.
Unless of course - you keep holding up sheets of lead when he tries and complain of him suppressing your culture. In which case you might get a bit of the blame.
We don't know all the info - Virellius, can you give more detail about the time he attacked you for fleeing? I could imagine a case where in his mind, your running away was akin to "harming or threatening innocents" (by omission rather than commission.) If he thought you were putting innocents into harms way by your actions, he would be bound by his code to punish you. Now, punish doesn't necessarily mean "attack with a greatsword", but it isn't precluded either.
There's plenty of historical precedent for this. In many armies, defectors are executed, on the grounds that their dereliction of duty directly threatened the lives of their comrades.
If you're actually not evil - how in the world does the Paladin not know it? He has freakin' detect evil at will.
If they're less than level 5, he would have no way of knowing either way.
he thinks I'm evil (I'm not)If you're actually not evil - how in the world does the Paladin not know it? He has freakin' detect evil at wil.
Unless of course - you keep holding up sheets of lead when he tries and complain of him suppressing your culture. In which case you might get a bit of the blame.
Team Belkar, baby.
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he thinks I'm evil (I'm not)If you're actually not evil - how in the world does the Paladin not know it? He has freakin' detect evil at wil.
Unless of course - you keep holding up sheets of lead when he tries and complain of him suppressing your culture. In which case you might get a bit of the blame.
Team Belkar, baby.
I have an idea. It starts with "S" and ends with "litting his throat".
(FYI - totally not meant to be real advice. Unless you're Belkar.)
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Pathfinder and all table top games must be made under a social contract that you and every other player secretly/ooc want to further the story and save other players. The player's shouldn't say they won't heal you, they need to find a reason that their character would. this is in essence kind of plot armor.
This prevents people from not being able to play characters they want to play, and it prevents the GM from accidentally the whole campaign.
It would certainly make things easier, but I wouldnt say this is tacitly true.
The player's shouldn't say they won't heal you, they need to find a reason that their character would.
I've always wanted to make a character who specializes in healing and law, and then start an in-group HMO for all hearing spells. That cure moderate wounds has a copay of 50 gold; since this is an emergency, you can pay at the end of battle. :)
This prevents people from not being able to play characters they want to play, and it prevents the GM from accidentally the whole campaign.
I think you accidentally a word.
Like a couple other folks have already said, the first step is to figure out if it's a player issue, or a character issue. Player issues have to solved out-of-game, while character ones need to be solved in-game (so long as everyone's having fun).
This prevents people from not being able to play characters they want to play, and it prevents the GM from accidentally the whole campaign.I think you accidentally a word.
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is a meme
This prevents people from not being able to play characters they want to play, and it prevents the GM from accidentally the whole campaign.I think you accidentally a word.
Are you really explaining the meme to someone who just used it?
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Are you really explaining the meme to someone who just used it?is a meme
This prevents people from not being able to play characters they want to play, and it prevents the GM from accidentally the whole campaign.I think you accidentally a word.
mimicry doesn't substantiate knowledge, especially if the mimicry was used to point out it's usually considered an error. #Poe's Law
mimicry doesn't substantiate knowledge, especially if the mimicry was used to point out it's usually considered an error. #Poe's LawAre you really explaining the meme to someone who just used it?is a meme
This prevents people from not being able to play characters they want to play, and it prevents the GM from accidentally the whole campaign.I think you accidentally a word.
Fair enough.
/Poe's law gets us all
//slashies?
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Wat do?
Just to clarify, you are asking for a in-character solution right?
If so, I suggest you get the paladin drunk and get into a Las Vegas-style wedding with him.
If he refuse to heal you the next time, just remind him of the "I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health." part of his wedding vow.
Wat do?Just to clarify, you are asking for a in-character solution right?
If so, I suggest you get the paladin drunk and get into a Las Vegas-style wedding with him.
If he refuse to heal you the next time, just remind him of the "I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health." part of his wedding vow.
Love it. This is what he has to do.
Wand, or a few Potions of Misdirection.
Detect as Lawful Good.
he isn't evil, paladin's just an idiot or something. (i jest)
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he isn't evil, paladin's just an idiot or something. (i jest)Wand, or a few Potions of Misdirection.
Detect as Lawful Good.
So... A normal paladin? :)
We definitely need MOAR background here. I have Dm'ed for and run with Paladins for years and can only think of a single time healing was refused for in character reasons.
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I'm firmly with Chengar and Renegadeshepherd. Some animosity between player characters can really liven up a campaign, and lend an element of verisimilitude. On the other hand, animosity between players does nothing but ruin the game.
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Has he reason to believe you are evil?
Last time I played a paladin we had a sanguine sorcerer in the party who drank blood for healing, used the control undead spell and insisted that we take the undead along after the fight instead of destroying them. Detect evil did not work on her. No reason to be wary?
If something looks, sounds and walks like a duck: Keep an eye open, your duck detector might be wrong with telling you it's no duck.
While I'm generally a proponent of consensual PvP, your initial post leaves a lot of questions...
1) Is this wholly in-game or is there an OOP conflict as well?
2) Why is the paladin hostile to you? ... you mentioned he refused healing... and that other people, not person doesn't like your PC ... why?
3) You mentioned that you were attacked by the paladin in an encounter you fled and was almost a TPK. Were you attacked because of something you did (ie triggered the almost TPK by trying to pick-pocket the previously non-hostile polymorphed red dragon or some such)?
If it's the paladin player who is the problem (which, from reading the boards, seems to be an issue for me far more than most), I'm happy to help come up with some creative ideas to assist you.
If it's your character who is the problem, however, you may want to try to figure out why and if it’s something that might be more constructive to address on your end than to start an inter-party bloodbath where you may end up with an anti-paladin enemy instead of a guy who just doesn't want to heal or you let you run away safely while the rest of your companions die in a holding action due to greed / negligence / stupidity.
-TimD
This is all in-game. The fight was in an okd crypt, the party wandered right into an ambush I warned them about, and began to die. My CN pc, having only been with them a day, left. She assumed they would die in a cave full of undead, and so caved in the entrance to prevent the enemy from getting out. They survived, get back to the base-camp, and find out I told the npcs they probably died. Paladin challenges me to a fight to the death (with no choice to say no) and I win, but let him live. Still acts hostile at every opportunity since.
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...so caved in the entrance to prevent the enemy from getting out...
Do you mean that you left the party and closed their escape route?
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Smite away, sir paladin.
...so caved in the entrance to prevent the enemy from getting out...Do you mean that you left the party and closed their escape route?
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Smite away, sir paladin.
So you think a person assuming everyone would die and become powerful undead so she prevents those undead from attacking later is evil? How?
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@Virellius - You'd kind of left out the fact that you caved in the entrance and thereby trapped the rest of the PCs, dooming them to almost certain death. That seems like a pretty lame move really.
@Adahn_Cielo - While the PC's action seems cowardly I'm not sure if it would shift his alignment to Chaotic Evil if the intent was to save his own life and protect the community from rampaging monsters. Of course the Paladin probably wouldn't know about intent.
Eff this paladin, if evil were to be a KOS target there would be no politicians. This guy deserves to fall for acting lawful evil in that he has become as tyrannical and intolerant as a Hellknight.
I told the paladin why. He refused to listen. Like I said, the party was dying anyway, and my pc had JUST started travelong with them. She had no allegience or reason to die with them.
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I must say - pulling stuff like that is why I never allow CN characters in home games that I GM.
Player: I want to completely hose the rest of the group!
GM: Wait - what?
Player: It's okay - because I'm Chaotic Neutral!
GM: *facepalm*
CN implies that you are not bound to any moral or legal obligations save for those you consent to. You do good, generally, unless you choose survival over friendship. You act free, not bound to organizational ties or laws, but don't necessarily act destructive. You must have bad CN players.
Yeah, by the 'smite away' I meant that the paladin is right to not trust the rogue, not that it actually shifted the alignement to CE.
Personally, IC, I wouldn't work anymore with someone that abandoned me at the first hard fight (one that the party actually won, it seems).
OOC, I would be pretty pissed if one of the other players ran off a fight and added insult to the injury by closing the exit, in case the other wanted to escape later.
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So you think a person assuming everyone would die and become powerful undead so she prevents those undead from attacking later is evil? How?...so caved in the entrance to prevent the enemy from getting out...Do you mean that you left the party and closed their escape route?
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Smite away, sir paladin.
While the character had his reasons, the other PCs probably are not going to accept that. That action pretty much poisoned the well. I don't think you have much choice now but to retire the character. You may have had an opportunity to keep it going had you killed the paladin but that's over now. This group is just not going to trust your character even if they accept his reasoning.
They only won because of GM deus-ex-machina.