Okay I'll just get right down to it. Through some circumstances I'm now a level 7 Rogue. I have never played a Rogue (as far as table top games goes) and so I don't really know how to build one all that well. I'm wanting some advise on how to continue to build my current Rogue, all advise is welcome. Here is what she looks like as far as stats go.
Chaotic Neutral Humanoid (Kender); Age: 22; Height: 3';
Weight: 120lb.
Female kender (kotobe) rogue 7 - CR 6
STR +1 STRENGTH 12
DEX +5 DEXTERITY 20
CON 0 CONSTITUTION 10
INT -1 INTELLIGENCE 8
WIS +2 WISDOM 15
CHA +3 CHARISMA 16
Acrobatics +15
Appraise -1
Bluff +13
Climb +1
Diplomacy +7
Disable Device +18
Disguise +3
Escape Artist +15
Fly +7
Heal +2
Intimidate +7
Linguistics +5
Perception +14
Ride +5
Sense Motive +7
Sleight of Hand +17
Stealth +19
Survival +2
Swim +1
Feats
Armor Proficiency (Light)
Rogue Weapon Proficiencies
Simple Weapon Proficiency - All
Slashing Grace (Dagger)
Twist Away
Two-Weapon Fighting
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus (Dagger)
Drawbacks
Cruelty
Special Abilities
Evasion (Ex)
Fast Fingers (2/day) (Ex)
Sneak Attack +4d6
Taunt (6/day, DC 13) (Ex)
Trap Sense +2 (Ex)
Trapfinding +3
Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
Languages
Boulmaukan Kenderspeak
Elven Vashan
Gnome
Background
Current Goals
Kill a Party Member
Also Convert Zyko to Evil
Looks great, save for a few things:
1. Slashing Grace don't work with daggers. They are not one-handed weapons, they are light. If your DM is cool with allowing it, more power to you.
2. What the hell is Taunt? I only know the feat. If you meant the feat, I do recommend you go Dazzling Display / Shatter Defenses / Violent Display for your next few feats, to ensure Sneak Attacks.
3. You have a weakness in CON and likely Fort saves. Try to patch that up quick.
I'm going to assuming you got Slashing Grace cleared with your GM to work with daggers. If not, keep in mind, by rules, it only works with one-handed slashing weapons (daggers are light weapons).
You dropped your intelligence to 8, which means you won't be able to go up the Feint tree. If you decide you want to go up the Feint tree, I suggest eventually dipping Brawler to get Brawler's Cunning.
In combat, I'm assuming your character wants to get the surprise round with your stealth for a free sneak attack, and then acrobatics into flanking position to continue sneak attack. I think in practice, your results will vary depending on the encounter.
You didn't post your HP, AC, or saves, so I can't comment on your defense, but from what's listed, my guess is that your Will save is around +4 ~ +7, depending on gear. I think you will fail Will saves roughly half the time or more, depending on the difficulty of the encounter. You may find your character doing things you didn't expect (running away, sleeping, etc.). Your other saves seem decent by virtue of Twist Away.
Likewise, you didn't post your accuracy. My guess is that your Attack is...
5[BAB] + 5[Dex] + 1[Small] + 1[Weapon Focus] + X[Weapon Enhancement] - 2[Two Weapon Fighting] ~=+10 ~ +12. The average CR 7 monster has 20 AC, so your accuracy is roughly 50% depending on the difficulty of what you're fighting.
With a 16 in charisma, the ninja alternate class is an excellent choice for you. The only thing notable that you lose out on evasion, and you get a lot of cool goodies.
For skills, I highly recommend the use magic device skill. It gives you the ability to use wands and scrolls. How useful this is depends on what the other members of the party are, but as far as skills go it's pretty awesome in any case.
I really like the Sczarni Swindler archetype over the regular Rogue, especially if you are based on Bluff.
mrgysao wrote: Okay I'll just get right down to it. Through some circumstances I'm now a level 7 Rogue. I have never played a Rogue (as far as table top games goes) and so I don't really know how to build one all that well. I'm wanting some advise on how to continue to build my current Rogue, all advise is welcome. Here is what she looks like as far as stats go.
Lots of cool stats 'n stuff
Background
Current Goals
Kill a Party Member
Also Convert Zyko to Evil
I think I'll ask some questions before getting to the advice thingy.
Are you having fun?
What is your playstyle like? / Your modus operandi?
Are you interested in spellcasting in any way for this character?
Are you interested in multiclassing?
oh, and btw: what books are you guys using?
any special omissions or houserules we should know about?
like there being no casters in your game or power attack doubling your STR and making you dazed after an attack? (just examples )
Reason I'm asking is because I'm a chronic multiclass-whore and I can see you have really good WIS- and CHA-stats.
which gives you alot of options, I can especially see how oracle or cleric might add some cool tricks and powers to this character.
But these options are irrelevant if that's not your style or to your interest.
square pegs, round holes, and all that.
regardless of wierd and deeply disturbing rogue/paladin, rogue/cleric, rogue/summoner or rogue/kitchen sink - builds, there is the rogue talents minor magic and major magic, especialy for getting the spell Vanish.
But maybe you're better off just buying a ring of invisibilty ...?
I agree with the Secret Wizard that getting something that increases your saves would be good.
For all of you who mentioned Slashing Grace just in case, lets assume my DM does not allow it. Any advise on what to choose instead of it?
Secret Wizard wrote: Looks great, save for a few things:
1. Slashing Grace don't work with daggers. They are not one-handed weapons, they are light. If your DM is cool with allowing it, more power to you.
2. What the hell is Taunt? I only know the feat. If you meant the feat, I do recommend you go Dazzling Display / Shatter Defenses / Violent Display for your next few feats, to ensure Sneak Attacks.
3. You have a weakness in CON and likely Fort saves. Try to patch that up quick.
(1) Yes, Slashing Grace is cleared to work with daggers. Though he may have not known that I will get this cleared with him later
(3) A Taunt is a race skill that all Kenders get, basically I can make fun of the enemy and make them attack me. Say in the middle of combat I use this, they will run past ally and foe to get to me provoking attacks of opportunity as they pass.
(3)Not sure how I'm going to patch that up... I guess I will buy some magic items though our city's main magic item seller is a little pissed at me for nearly killing her apprentice. :p
voideternal wrote: I'm going to assuming you got Slashing Grace cleared with your GM to work with daggers. If not, keep in mind, by rules, it only works with one-handed slashing weapons (daggers are light weapons).
You dropped your intelligence to 8, which means you won't be able to go up the Feint tree. If you decide you want to go up the Feint tree, I suggest eventually dipping Brawler to get Brawler's Cunning.
In combat, I'm assuming your character wants to get the surprise round with your stealth for a free sneak attack, and then acrobatics into flanking position to continue sneak attack. I think in practice, your results will vary depending on the encounter.
You didn't post your HP, AC, or saves, so I can't comment on your defense, but from what's listed, my guess is that your Will save is around +4 ~ +7, depending on gear. I think you will fail Will saves roughly half the time or more, depending on the difficulty of the encounter. You may find your character doing things you didn't expect (running away, sleeping, etc.). Your other saves seem decent by virtue of Twist Away.
Likewise, you didn't post your accuracy. My guess is that your Attack is...
5[BAB] + 5[Dex] + 1[Small] + 1[Weapon Focus] + X[Weapon Enhancement] - 2[Two Weapon Fighting] ~=+10 ~ +12. The average CR 7 monster has 20 AC, so your accuracy is roughly 50% depending on the difficulty of what you're fighting.
Okay so I will talk to my DM about the Slashing Grace. No I did not "drop" my INT to 8 I rolled 7 and pushed it up to 8 for those extra skill points. I'm to sure how sneak attacks work (still learning the ropes) so taking advantage of surprise rounds might take some time. As far as flanking goes, that means my team mates have to be competent and not cowards. Yes my Will safe is at 4, my HP is at 34 and my AC with no armor (I have none at this time) is at 16. I know I have about a %50 chance of hitting things, I plan on buffing my character with magic items and such. Also, I don't plan on multi-classing
Dasrak wrote: With a 16 in charisma, the ninja alternate class is an excellent choice for you. The only thing notable that you lose out on evasion, and you get a lot of cool goodies.
For skills, I highly recommend the use magic device skill. It gives you the ability to use wands and scrolls. How useful this is depends on what the other members of the party are, but as far as skills go it's pretty awesome in any case.
I think I will pass on the multi, classing even if it's to be a ninja. I like my Evasion, it will come in handy for what I have planned. Also my character is no a magic user and she does not really like magic users.
LuxuriantOak wrote: mrgysao wrote: Okay I'll just get right down to it. Through some circumstances I'm now a level 7 Rogue. I have never played a Rogue (as far as table top games goes) and so I don't really know how to build one all that well. I'm wanting some advise on how to continue to build my current Rogue, all advise is welcome. Here is what she looks like as far as stats go.
Lots of cool stats 'n stuff
Background
Current Goals
Kill a Party Member
Also Convert Zyko to Evil
I think I'll ask some questions before getting to the advice thingy.
Are you having fun?
What is your playstyle like? / Your modus operandi?
Are you interested in spellcasting in any way for this character?
Are you interested in multiclassing?
oh, and btw: what books are you guys using?
any special omissions or houserules we should know about?
like there being no casters in your game or power attack doubling your STR and making you dazed after an attack? (just examples )
Reason I'm asking is because I'm a chronic multiclass-whore and I can see you have really good WIS- and CHA-stats.
which gives you alot of options, I can especially see how oracle or cleric might add some cool tricks and powers to this character.
But these options are irrelevant if that's not your style or to your interest.
square pegs, round holes, and all that.
regardless of wierd and deeply disturbing rogue/paladin, rogue/cleric, rogue/summoner or rogue/kitchen sink - builds, there is the rogue talents minor magic and major magic, especialy for getting the spell Vanish.
But maybe you're better off just buying a ring of invisibilty ...?
I agree with the Secret Wizard that getting something that increases your saves would be good.
Yes, I'm having fun or at least I will be. I have not even had one games as my rogue, that's on Saturday.
My play style use to be hit anything that pisses me off (I was a neutral good barbarian) but now that I'm a chaotic neutral (secretly chaotic evil) rogue, I plan on hiding in the shadows for most of the fights and only attacking when the enemys look weakened. Dealing the killing blow so that I don't have to worry about a counter attack from that enemy.
No I'm not interested in being a magic user that will not fit my character, not in the way I want. I'm in it for the role play and being a magic user suddenly would break character, and I never break character. Also not going to multi class, that's just not my thing.
As far as books go, my DM uses Hero Lab... like all of it. So there is no ground I can't explore if I so choose it. No house rules like the ones you listed, it's more of a situational thing. No wait, he does not allow guns, that's about it as far as I know.
Yes, I know my saves need to be better, so far my best save is for reflex (+10) but now that you mention it a ring of invisibility does sound nice. I will defiantly look into that. It's not like I can count on any of my magic using team mates to turn me invisible at opportune times.
Honestly, I think Rogue is THE class that requires the most system mastery in the game.
If you don't know how sneak attack works... well, it's a bunch of stuff. It kind of depends on what kind of DM you have.
Ah, now that I know that -disregard my multiclass ramblings.
moving on, I'm currently a great fan of the Underhanded talent (or as I call it: the assasin's creed attack) used with a spring-loaded sheat it can be awesome.
Of course if your GM never lets you walk up to dudes, rolling bluff and chatting before STABBING THE BEJEEZUZ OUT OF THEM -then it's going to be a wasted talent. Also s*+$e if you are often the ambushED and not the ambushER.
Another interesting talent is Stealth Stunt, but it might be more conditional than it seems. I looks like a poor mans Hide In Plain Sight.
I agree that the dazzling display-line of feats could be fun for your characters style.
when it comes to your saves, the twist away-feat in most cases allow you to use your reflex for your fortitude save right? So your Will is the one that might need a boost later.
There is the advanced talent slippery mind and the feat iron will for that.
To be honest, your character looks fine, she's not great at everything and there are some chinks in her armor, but this is a group game and you have teammates to help you out. And the stuff she's specialized in she's Quite Good at.
Getting agile manouvers might be smart for her, even if she's not a tripper or disarmer you can't always choose not to be grappled. it's cool when it happens if you have some chance of turning the tables on your opponents.
And I think combat manouvers should be used more ....
Why do you want to be a rogue? If it's a flavor/fluff/rp thing, you could get the samething with another class, while generally contributing more to the party. If you want to play a stealthy, assassin like character, might I suggest the slayer class? I believe it will offer you almost everything that the rogue does, and even more.
As secret wizard said, rogues require much more system mastery than any other class. Making them more difficult to build and play than they seem.
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Some Random Dood wrote: Why do you want to be a rogue? If it's a flavor/fluff/rp thing, you could get the samething with another class, while generally contributing more to the party. If you want to play a stealthy, assassin like character, might I suggest the slayer class? I believe it will offer you almost everything that the rogue does, and even more.
As secret wizard said, rogues require much more system mastery than any other class. Making them more difficult to build and play than they seem.
Please stop that.
Some Random Dood wrote: Why do you want to be a rogue? If it's a flavor/fluff/rp thing, you could get the samething with another class, while generally contributing more to the party. If you want to play a stealthy, assassin like character, might I suggest the slayer class? I believe it will offer you almost everything that the rogue does, and even more.
As secret wizard said, rogues require much more system mastery than any other class. Making them more difficult to build and play than they seem.
I was actually about to suggest this very thing. "Advice for a noob rogue" - don't. There's better options to accomplish the same kinda theme, flavor, and even mechanics that you're looking for. The slayer, as stated, is a great option. Otherwise the ninja is (in my opinion) the better class, and even a ranger or particularly built fighter or any other number of things could get you that sneaky-stabby-get-the-last-stab-in sort of feel.
EDIT: 120 lbs for a 3-foot kender is... wow. Beefy!
Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Given how much you are investing in Disable Device, Ninja really doesn't do it. The Ninja gives up trap ability.
As others have said, your priority is going to be improving Con and Saving Throws. A magical weapon, Belt of Mighty Constitution and a cloak of resistance would also be on my short list to acquire.
Might want to rethink the goal of killing a party member assuming that is another PC. It seldom works out very well. Think about the time you put into your character. Now you've got a goal of destroying another player's character when that player likely invested just as much time and effort into it. Not cool.
Even if you are playing Chaotic Evil, it is better to have a set of helpers (fools) who you can depend on (use) in a fight. Your character is going to know it can't handle things alone. Fine to make the rest of the world your enemy, but best have someone that you can work with.
Since you are going down the path of evil, might want to consider using poisons. APG has Swift Poison and Lasting Poison as rogue talents. Given your stated strategy for battle, look at Fast Getaway as well.
I would get a ranged weapon. There are going to be times that you don't want to enter melee.
mrgysao wrote: For all of you who mentioned Slashing Grace just in case, lets assume my DM does not allow it. Any advise on what to choose instead of it? In my opinion, slashing grace is so good for rogues, that I would drop two-weapon fighting and grab Exotic Weapon Proficiency Dueling Sword just to use it.
So, the feat changes are:
Two Weapon Fighting -> Exotic Weapon Proficiency Dueling Sword
Weapon Focus(Dagger) -> Weapon Focus(Dueling Sword)
Dexterity becomes a very important stat for you because it increases attack, damage, AC, Reflex saves, and Fort saves (Twist Away). A belt of Dex is very important.
Use Main Hand +1 Dueling Sword (2k)
Use Off-hand +1 Buckler (1k) (no Armor check penalty, so no penalties)
Use +2 Belt of Dex (4k)
Use +3 cloak (9k)
Use +2 Mithral Chain Shirt (5k)
Total 21k used out of 23k.
Your attack will be +14, Your AC will be 25, Your Will save will be +7.
That's what I would do.
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