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Str/Dex Bonus: Add this modifier to the eidolon's Strength and Dexterity scores, as determined by its base form. Some options available through the eidolon's evolution pool might modify these scores.
The first part of the sentence is pretty easy to parse; clearly it applies to both. But then there is the second clause which substantially muddies the water making it seem like the bonus should apply to only one, which is specified in the base form. Except its not specified in the base form. So am I right, it applies to both? How does PFS play it?
Edit:
One more.
Am I correct in that I can allocate 100% of the Armor Bonus to natural armor, and then buy my Eidolon a suit of Full Plate?
Armor Bonus: The number noted here is the eidolon's base total armor bonus. This bonus may be split between an armor bonus and a natural armor bonus, as decided by the summoner. This number is modified by the eidolon's base form and some options available through its evolution pool. An eidolon cannot wear armor of any kind, as the armor interferes with the summoner's connection to the eidolon.
Str/Dex bonus applies to both.
Armor Bonus: The number noted here is the eidolon's base total armor bonus. This bonus may be split between an armor bonus and a natural armor bonus, as decided by the summoner. This number is modified by the eidolon's base form and some options available through its evolution pool. An eidolon cannot wear armor of any kind, as the armor interferes with the summoner's connection to the eidolon.
Eidolons can't wear armor.
Dex/Str applies to both. You can get the 2-point Ability Increase evolution which could modify one or the other score. The 4-point Large evolution would also modify the scores but not in the same way. I believe that is what the last line refers to.
Although Eidolon's can't wear armor, there is Mage Armor and Shield. I always put all of the bonus in Natural Armor.
Str/Dex Bonus: Add this modifier to the eidolon's Strength and Dexterity scores, as determined by its base form. Some options available through the eidolon's evolution pool might modify these scores.The first part of the sentence is pretty easy to parse; clearly it applies to both. But then there is the second clause which substantially muddies the water making it seem like the bonus should apply to only one, which is specified in the base form. Except its not specified in the base form. So am I right, it applies to both? How does PFS play it?
The phrase "as determined by its base form" refers to the scores. The strength and dexterity scores are determined by the base form and you add the modifier to both of those predetermined strength and dexterity scores.
Add this modifier to the eidolon's Strength and Dexterity scores, as determined by its base form.
Essentially, it's just reminding you that your modified strength and dexterity totals will be different depending on your base form, because each form has different bases for these stats. It really is an unnecessary statement though.
The Eidolon armor limitation always bothers me. It's too metagamey. What happens if you force an eidolon to wear armor? Does it get a bonus? Does it unsummon? It's not like wielding a weapon where it's an action. Wearing armor is passive. Wearing armor is something that can be done to you against your will.
You probably are best off allocating your eidolon's entire armor bonus to natural armor, as an Amulet of Natural Armor or a Barkskin spell would stack with a natural armor bonus while Bracers of Armor or a Mage Armor spell would not stack with an armor bonus. I cannot think of a single good reason to do otherwise.
Design Manager
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You have to survive to level 20, along the way you should be fighting at least a few opponents that can suspend or dismiss your eidolon.Cool beans, I thought it was both, this Synthesist is going to be insane at level 20.
Which is where having the conjuration abilities of a dedicated full caster with superior action economy kicks in. The Eidolon is that thing Summoner's use to distract their enemies from the real threat, that is, the conjuration and control specialist who pretends he's not a full caster.
Making the mistake of thinking the most dangerous thing about a Summoner is his eidolon is like assuming the most dangerous thing about a pit fiend is his claws. Sure, they look scary, but if he's using them that means he's decided not to pull out the big guns (or he's already won and is just mopping up).
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The nice thing about the Synthesist is that he IS the eidolon. which means he has self healing. As for Banishment/Dissmissal, well Dimensional Anchor is a 3rd level summoner spell that prevents planner travel.
I do have another quick question:
Augment Summoning; I read this feat as having no affect on the Eidolon, as it only affects creatures summoned by the Summon Monster spells (and their ilk). Is that the correct interpretation?
Have made an exercise out of creating this build for 20th level in the Lich build off thread. That one being a lich is a little more over the top than a PC i would build. If anyone like to build Critique, I'd be happy to have you take a look, its the first summoner I've made so there are bound to be a mistake or two.
The nice thing about the Synthesist is that he IS the eidolon. which means he has self healing. As for Banishment/Dissmissal, well Dimensional Anchor is a 3rd level summoner spell that prevents planner travel.
I do have another quick question:
Augment Summoning; I read this feat as having no affect on the Eidolon, as it only affects creatures summoned by the Summon Monster spells (and their ilk). Is that the correct interpretation?
Have made an exercise out of creating this build for 20th level in the Lich build off thread. That one being a lich is a little more over the top than a PC i would build. If anyone like to build Critique, I'd be happy to have you take a look, its the first summoner I've made so there are bound to be a mistake or two.
Keep in mind a sythesist's Eidolon can't benefit from cure spells. So the synthesist has to stop his/her attacks to cast the only healing spell that works, Rejuvenate Eidolon. You can't even benefit from the Fast Healing evolution.
Summoner: How does a synthesist (page 80) heal damage to his eidolon?
Because the eidolon gives the synthesist temporary hit points rather than having a separate pool of normal hit points, effects that cure hit points don't restore the eidolon's temporary hit points. This technically leaves you unable to heal the eidolon. To remedy this, effects that specifically restore hp to an eidolon (such as rejuvenate eidolon) restore temporary hit points to a synthesist's eidolon. This does mean those spells end up as a sort of must-have "spell tax" for synthesists, but the advantage of being a synthesist is your eidolon's hp are a buffer between you and damage, unlike a normal summoner who can be targeted separately from his eidolon.
Even the Fast Healing evolution, or other fast healing or regeneration effects, restore hit points rather than temporary hit points, so they heal the summoner, not the eidolon's temporary hit points.
Str/Dex Bonus: Add this modifier to the eidolon's Strength and Dexterity scores, as determined by its base form. Some options available through the eidolon's evolution pool might modify these scores.The first part of the sentence is pretty easy to parse; clearly it applies to both. But then there is the second clause which substantially muddies the water making it seem like the bonus should apply to only one, which is specified in the base form. Except its not specified in the base form. So am I right, it applies to both? How does PFS play it?
the bolded refers to what the base stats are, aka the str and dex scores your eidolon already has.
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Keep in mind a sythesist's Eidolon can't benefit from cure spells. So the synthesist has to stop his/her attacks to cast the only healing spell that works, Rejuvenate Eidolon. You can't even benefit from the Fast Healing evolution.
Not even a concern:
Fused Link (Su): Starting at 1st level, the synthesist forms a close bond with his eidolon. Whenever the temporary hit points from his eidolon would be reduced to 0, the summoner can, as a free action, sacrifice any number of his own hit points. Each hit point sacrificed this way prevents 1 point of damage done to the eidolon (thus preventing the loss of the summoner's temporary hit points), preventing the eidolon from being killed and sent back to its home plane. This ability replaces life link.
You just feed the eidolon your HP when its HP run out and rely on the party healer to fill you up, then Rejuvanate when there is a break in the action.
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The nice thing about the Synthesist is that he IS the eidolon. which means he has self healing. As for Banishment/Dissmissal, well Dimensional Anchor is a 3rd level summoner spell that prevents planner travel.
I do have another quick question:
Augment Summoning; I read this feat as having no affect on the Eidolon, as it only affects creatures summoned by the Summon Monster spells (and their ilk). Is that the correct interpretation?
Have made an exercise out of creating this build for 20th level in the Lich build off thread. That one being a lich is a little more over the top than a PC i would build. If anyone like to build Critique, I'd be happy to have you take a look, its the first summoner I've made so there are bound to be a mistake or two.
You should be facing at least a few opponents with Anti-Magic Field on your journey to 20. Your eidolon will blink out upon entering this field. Dimensional Anchor will not help you. There is no saving throw.
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Anti-Magic field, seriously?
As soon as I depart the 10 foot radius I will have my eidolon back, and with a 10'+ reach I can beat you down through it without ever entering it, although the weapon itself will lose its properties.
You make assumptions, such as the ability to leave the field.
Starting in mid-teens you should be facing highly intelligent, physically powerful opponents with access to AMF. Dragons and Demons both fall in this category. Both are going to be attacking you, on their turn, while you are both physically weak and lacking nearly all of your defenses.
A 5- step won't place you outside the AMF. Natural attacks into the AMF won't work, you cannot reach into the AMF with your eidolon. A held weapon would work.
It won't happen every encounter, but you need a plan to survive an AMF. It is a hard counter to everything the Summoner does.
Anti-Magic field, seriously?
As soon as I depart the 10 foot radius I will have my eidolon back, and with a 10'+ reach I can beat you down through it without ever entering it, although the weapon itself will lose its properties.
You make assumptions, such as the ability to leave the field.
Starting in mid-teens you should be facing highly intelligent, physically powerful opponents with access to AMF. Dragons and Demons both fall in this category. Both are going to be attacking you, on their turn, while you are both physically weak and lacking nearly all of your defenses.
A 5- step won't place you outside the AMF. Natural attacks into the AMF won't work, you cannot reach into the AMF with your eidolon. A held weapon would work.
It won't happen every encounter, but you need a plan to survive an AMF. It is a hard counter to everything the Summoner does.
Do you have a personal stake in him not making a synthesist? He seems to be aware of the possible drawbacks, which there admittedly are. However, by level 20 you are also expected to have ways to at least partially mitigate those and if not that is for his party to deal with.
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Design Manager
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Augment Summoning; I read this feat as having no affect on the Eidolon, as it only affects creatures summoned by the Summon Monster spells (and their ilk). Is that the correct interpretation?
Normally, the Eidolon won't benefit from Augment Summoning. If your eidolon has been killed or dismissed and you use the temporary summon eidolon spell, however, then yes, it will benefit from Augment Summoning for the duration of the spell.
Sidenote:
Antimagic Field is pretty much a silly response to anything. Most creatures capable of casting it will be even more hosed than whatever they're fighting, so it's pretty unusual to see it used by a caster who isn't either a legitimate beefcake themselves, or who has a bunch of really scary friends who don't rely on magic.
The real weakness of the synthesist is that it is weaker than the normal Summoner. It has much poorer action economy and typically suffers far, far more than a standard Summoner from the loss of its eidolon if that situation does arise. Once you know the rules and have your build down though it's easy to run and typically pretty fun to play, so I'd imagine MoS is going to have a great time in his game.
To answer Master of Shadows about Augmented summoning and Eidolons -
When summoned by a ritual (the normal way), augmented summoning has no effect. The advantage is that the ritual uses no spell slots and the Eidolon is around until banished, destroyed, or the Summoner loses consciousness.
If the second level SPELL Summon Eidolon is used, Augmented summoning works. The downside is that the duration is only one minute per level, much like any other summoning spell. It is one of the few, niche reasons that a Summoner would actually have this spell for any reason.
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KestrelZ, thats kind of what I was getting out of it.
Next question, The eidolon i'm working from is a quadroped with pounce and 5 points invested in Flight. This gives him a 60' fly speed with perfect maneuverability. From what I can tell this allows me to charge 120' and make a full attack. Can someone point me to the rules that say it ain't so?
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Do you have a personal stake in him not making a synthesist? He seems to be aware of the possible drawbacks, which there admittedly are. However, by level 20 you are also expected to have ways to at least partially mitigate those and if not that is for his party to deal with.
I enjoy the sythesist, I just try to make sure people are prepared when this scenario occurs. A lot of people planning on playing to higher level don't have an answer for AMF. It may only come up a handful of times, but it is a killer when it does.
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Sidenote:
Antimagic Field is pretty much a silly response to anything. Most creatures capable of casting it will be even more hosed than whatever they're fighting, so it's pretty unusual to see it used by a caster who isn't either a legitimate beefcake themselves, or who has a bunch of really scary friends who don't rely on magic.
I listed two specific examples a higher level character will encounter where the opponent is going to benefit from AMF. A physically powerful opponent, such as a dragon, gains immunity to party casters, negates a substantial portion of melee dpr and retains its own physical power. AMF shows up as a default spell on several draconic spell lists.
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KestrelZ, thats kind of what I was getting out of it.
Next question, The eidolon i'm working from is a quadroped with pounce and 5 points invested in Flight. This gives him a 60' fly speed with perfect maneuverability. From what I can tell this allows me to charge 120' and make a full attack. Can someone point me to the rules that say it ain't so?
It works, and is pretty standard.
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Design Manager
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Agreed with Rikkan and MoS. All the dragon is really doing is making life easier on everyone else, since conjured effects will still work on him (and are staples for combatting creatures with SR anyways), and the rest of the party members no longer have to worry about his repertoire of spells. Demons would be even more foolish to use anti-magic field; their natural attacks are literally the least dangerous thing about them. A valid who just cast antimagic field on himself is a valid who just made an adventurer's life many times easier in most circumstances.
10 ft radius means it covers a 4x4square area. A large dragon would have a 5' circle around himself in the AMF.
All eidolons are treated as summoned creatures. So if you attack someone within an AMF, it would wink out unless they were larger than a 4x4square area.
And thats the question. Its obvious if you attacked the dragon with a +5 sword, that the sword would be in the area of effect of the AMF and so you wouldn't get the enhancement bonus to attack/damage for the attack.
The eidolon is large, but is it the eidolons form itself, or the huge sized bastard sword that lets it reach 15'. Bastard swords are not a reach weapon, so it is only the base creature size which provides the reach. I would probably say the eidolon fails to make the attack the same way a summoned creature would fail to make the attack.
If you used a reach weapon, I would allow the attack to go through, as you are definitely relying on the weapon to attack that far, and not your limbs.
This is all my opinion; not sure where RAW falls with AMF and longer than 5' reach.
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I would think it is a bit of a GM judgement call, I don't believe the rules specifically address it. Also, how much of reach is a function of the size of the creature and how much a function of the length of its weapons. If a huge creature were attacking with medium weapons I would definitely agree with you. However, bastard swords are kinda long and Huge ones are exponentially longer than medium ones, its a natural assumption that weapon size is a factor of reach above medium size.
In any case with the strength bonus from being huge, you can afford to take the nonproficiency penalty involved in uprooting a tree and beating the dragon to death with it...
You would have the same 15' reach with brass knuckles though. Which is why I say it isn't a function of the weapon range.
And all the dragon has to do is rush you, and pop, your eidolon buddy vanishes. Leaving a nice crunchy summoner inside to grab with a claw and hold onto to make sure that big guy doesn't come back.
10 ft radius means it covers a 4x4square area. A large dragon would have a 5' circle around himself in the AMF.
All eidolons are treated as summoned creatures. So if you attack someone within an AMF, it would wink out unless they were larger than a 4x4square area.
actually if the 10ft radius is focused on the center of a square, it covers 5x5 (give or take a corner). because the origin square is 0 ft away, 3x3 is 5ft and 5x5 is 10.
or
105 0 5 10
x x x x x 10
x x x x x 5
x x 0 x x 0
x x x x x 5
x x x x x 10
I would think it is a bit of a GM judgement call, I don't believe the rules specifically address it. Also, how much of reach is a function of the size of the creature and how much a function of the length of its weapons. If a huge creature were attacking with medium weapons I would definitely agree with you. However, bastard swords are kinda long and Huge ones are exponentially longer than medium ones, its a natural assumption that weapon size is a factor of reach above medium size.
In any case with the strength bonus from being huge, you can afford to take the nonproficiency penalty involved in uprooting a tree and beating the dragon to death with it...
reach is entirely based on character size, the game only references this, and under threat/reach it never references weapon. the reach weapon quality is the same, a small spear on a huge creature still gives you 15-30 ft reach, or what have you.
Bandw2, area effects are always centered on grid intersections, not the center of a square.
"Area: Some spells affect an area. Sometimes a spell description specifies a specially defined area, but usually an area falls into one of the categories defined below.
Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don't control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection."
Also, in your example, the corners would be 15' away. Not 10.
Bandw2, area effects are always centered on grid intersections, not the center of a square.
"Area: Some spells affect an area. Sometimes a spell description specifies a specially defined area, but usually an area falls into one of the categories defined below.
Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don't control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection."
Also, in your example, the corners would be 15' away. Not 10.
... but i can;t measure from grid intersections D: (in my software)
and i did say give or take a corner