paizo.com Recent Posts in Attacking Before AND After a 5ft Shiftpaizo.com Recent Posts in Attacking Before AND After a 5ft Shift2014-10-06T17:44:39Z2014-10-06T17:44:39ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftMumrahhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#222019-03-04T05:54:32Z2019-03-04T05:51:21Z<p>So after almost 5 years since posting this ...... Thanks for the responses folks. We now officially have a much better understanding of that particular battle tactic. :-)</p>So after almost 5 years since posting this ...... Thanks for the responses folks. We now officially have a much better understanding of that particular battle tactic. :-)Mumrah2019-03-04T05:51:21ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftMelkiadorhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#212014-10-06T19:19:00Z2014-10-06T18:50:51Z<p>I think some people think multiple attacks in a full round action all happen at the same time, but they can actually be staggered throughout your full round action. For example, if you were dual wielding, you could attack with main hand, then 5 foot step and then attack with off-hand. You don't have to attack the same target with every attack, and you could even cut your attacks short, if you didn't want to overkill something.</p>I think some people think multiple attacks in a full round action all happen at the same time, but they can actually be staggered throughout your full round action. For example, if you were dual wielding, you could attack with main hand, then 5 foot step and then attack with off-hand. You don't have to attack the same target with every attack, and you could even cut your attacks short, if you didn't want to overkill something.Melkiador2014-10-06T18:50:51ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftOrfamay Questhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#202014-10-06T18:42:39Z2014-10-06T18:42:39Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Combat Monster wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">daimaru wrote:</div><blockquote> Could s/he have made multiple attacks if s/he had <b>not</b> taken the 5-foot step? If the adventurer could hit NPC A, then hit NPC B, while standing in one place, then I see no reason s/he couldn't still hit two enemies with a 5-foot step in between. But this shouldn't give them an extra attack. </blockquote>It doesn't give an extra attack. It just allows you to move once using a 5 foot step before, during or after your other attacks during a full round action. </blockquote><p>Basically, we're looking at this situation:
<p>A I X B</p>
<p>Where A, B are enemies, I is me, and X is an empty 5' square.</p>
<p>I clock A, take a 5' step, and then swing at B (and probably miss, because iteratives are at a penalty). This is explicitly permitted by rule.</p>
<p>Similarly, if I'm TWF-ing, that would work as well.</p>Combat Monster wrote:daimaru wrote: Could s/he have made multiple attacks if s/he had not taken the 5-foot step? If the adventurer could hit NPC A, then hit NPC B, while standing in one place, then I see no reason s/he couldn't still hit two enemies with a 5-foot step in between. But this shouldn't give them an extra attack.
It doesn't give an extra attack. It just allows you to move once using a 5 foot step before, during or after your other attacks during a full round action. Basically,...Orfamay Quest2014-10-06T18:42:39ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftCombat Monsterhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#192014-10-06T18:32:47Z2014-10-06T18:32:47Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">daimaru wrote:</div><blockquote> Could s/he have made multiple attacks if s/he had <b>not</b> taken the 5-foot step? If the adventurer could hit NPC A, then hit NPC B, while standing in one place, then I see no reason s/he couldn't still hit two enemies with a 5-foot step in between. But this shouldn't give them an extra attack. </blockquote><p>It doesn't give an extra attack. It just allows you to move once using a 5 foot step before, during or after your other attacks during a full round action.daimaru wrote:Could s/he have made multiple attacks if s/he had not taken the 5-foot step? If the adventurer could hit NPC A, then hit NPC B, while standing in one place, then I see no reason s/he couldn't still hit two enemies with a 5-foot step in between. But this shouldn't give them an extra attack.
It doesn't give an extra attack. It just allows you to move once using a 5 foot step before, during or after your other attacks during a full round action.Combat Monster2014-10-06T18:32:47ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft Shiftdaimaruhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#182014-10-06T18:19:45Z2014-10-06T18:19:45Z<p>Could s/he have made multiple attacks if s/he had <b>not</b> taken the 5-foot step? If the adventurer could hit NPC A, then hit NPC B, while standing in one place, then I see no reason s/he couldn't still hit two enemies with a 5-foot step in between. But this shouldn't give them an extra attack.</p>Could s/he have made multiple attacks if s/he had not taken the 5-foot step? If the adventurer could hit NPC A, then hit NPC B, while standing in one place, then I see no reason s/he couldn't still hit two enemies with a 5-foot step in between. But this shouldn't give them an extra attack.daimaru2014-10-06T18:19:45ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftMelkiadorhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#172014-10-06T17:51:59Z2014-10-06T17:51:59Z<p>I have more trouble remembering that I can't combine a 5-foot step with any other movement-based action. So, no 5 foot step and charge. Or no charge and 5 foot step. I'm not sure if this was allowed in 3rd, or if we used to always play it wrong.</p>I have more trouble remembering that I can't combine a 5-foot step with any other movement-based action. So, no 5 foot step and charge. Or no charge and 5 foot step. I'm not sure if this was allowed in 3rd, or if we used to always play it wrong.Melkiador2014-10-06T17:51:59ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftChris Lambertzhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#162014-10-06T17:45:00Z2014-10-06T17:45:00Z<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Removed a post and replies to it. This kind of baiting is not helpful.</span></p>Removed a post and replies to it. This kind of baiting is not helpful.Chris Lambertz2014-10-06T17:45:00ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftZwordsmanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#122014-10-06T09:24:35Z2014-10-06T09:24:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zaister wrote:</div><blockquote> He's probably coming from D&D 4th Edition; the 5-ft.-step is called a "shift" there. </blockquote><p>Ooh I see. Thanks
<p>I love how different editions and versions of very similar games have such varying nomiclature. I love Creole language differences (lingustically similar relation)</p>Zaister wrote:He's probably coming from D&D 4th Edition; the 5-ft.-step is called a "shift" there.
Ooh I see. Thanks I love how different editions and versions of very similar games have such varying nomiclature. I love Creole language differences (lingustically similar relation)Zwordsman2014-10-06T09:24:35ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftZaisterhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#112014-10-06T09:18:10Z2014-10-06T09:18:10Z<p>He's probably coming from D&D 4th Edition; the 5-ft.-step is called a "shift" there.</p>He's probably coming from D&D 4th Edition; the 5-ft.-step is called a "shift" there.Zaister2014-10-06T09:18:10ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftZwordsmanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#102014-10-06T08:56:21Z2014-10-06T08:56:21Z<p>assuming when you say "shift" you mean a "5-ft step" and not the "shift" abilities, then yeah</p>
<p>You can dull a full attack, hit with the first and second, then take a 5ft step and hit someone else with the next two.</p>assuming when you say "shift" you mean a "5-ft step" and not the "shift" abilities, then yeah
You can dull a full attack, hit with the first and second, then take a 5ft step and hit someone else with the next two.Zwordsman2014-10-06T08:56:21ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft Shiftkinevonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#92014-10-06T08:21:54Z2014-10-06T08:21:54Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Anguish wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Gwiber wrote:</div><blockquote>Of what use was it that the player thought it up i the first place?</blockquote><p>It actually adds an extra consideration when positioning on the battlemat. With this rule, you may choose to deliberately place yourself such that should you drop Target A, you have the option of making a 5ft step to continue whacking Target B, instead of staying far, far away from the second threat. Attacks that are wasted because your target is frail may be worth the danger that you're possibly about to get flanked.
<p>Stuff like that. </blockquote><p>It can also be useful when Target A, for example, is blocking a door or 5' wide corridor. Drop him, 5' into his space, then whack the healer/squishy he was protecting. While opening access to the protected area to the rest of your group, while providing a road block to the other guys, now.Anguish wrote:Gwiber wrote:Of what use was it that the player thought it up i the first place?
It actually adds an extra consideration when positioning on the battlemat. With this rule, you may choose to deliberately place yourself such that should you drop Target A, you have the option of making a 5ft step to continue whacking Target B, instead of staying far, far away from the second threat. Attacks that are wasted because your target is frail may be worth the danger that you're possibly...kinevon2014-10-06T08:21:54ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft Shiftblackbloodtrollhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#82014-10-06T04:38:52Z2014-10-06T04:38:52Z<p>Just to let you know, the relevant rule is also located on Page 187, of the Core Rulebook.</p>Just to let you know, the relevant rule is also located on Page 187, of the Core Rulebook.blackbloodtroll2014-10-06T04:38:52ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftPaladin of Baha-who?https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#72019-03-04T05:54:13Z2014-10-06T04:05:48Z<p>A 5ft step is not a move action; you can take it during a full attack. So yes, it is allowed.</p>A 5ft step is not a move action; you can take it during a full attack. So yes, it is allowed.Paladin of Baha-who?2014-10-06T04:05:48ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftAnguishhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#62014-10-06T03:36:46Z2014-10-06T03:36:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Gwiber wrote:</div><blockquote>Of what use was it that the player thought it up i the first place?</blockquote><p>It actually adds an extra consideration when positioning on the battlemat. With this rule, you may choose to deliberately place yourself such that should you drop Target A, you have the option of making a 5ft step to continue whacking Target B, instead of staying far, far away from the second threat. Attacks that are wasted because your target is frail may be worth the danger that you're possibly about to get flanked.
<p>Stuff like that.</p>Gwiber wrote:Of what use was it that the player thought it up i the first place?
It actually adds an extra consideration when positioning on the battlemat. With this rule, you may choose to deliberately place yourself such that should you drop Target A, you have the option of making a 5ft step to continue whacking Target B, instead of staying far, far away from the second threat. Attacks that are wasted because your target is frail may be worth the danger that you're possibly about to get...Anguish2014-10-06T03:36:46ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft Shiftconcerrohttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#52014-10-06T02:28:25Z2014-10-06T02:28:25Z<p>The rules specifically allow it as the quote says.</p>The rules specifically allow it as the quote says.concerro2014-10-06T02:28:25ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftRathendarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#42014-10-06T02:19:18Z2014-10-06T02:19:18Z<p>It's allowed. See what Anguish said above.</p>It's allowed. See what Anguish said above.Rathendar2014-10-06T02:19:18ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftGwiberhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#32014-10-06T02:15:46Z2014-10-06T02:15:46Z<p>I'd say this was probably wrong. Getting multiple attacks is almost always based on a full round action.</p>
<p>And you have to take your action before or after you use the move. All the attacks coming form the full round action are part of the ACTION itself. That's why its call a full round ACTION, as in mechanically speaking a single action.</p>
<p>This wouldn't have nay bearing on things like Spring attack.</p>
<p>How did this come u anyway? Of what use was it that the player thought it up i the first place?</p>I'd say this was probably wrong. Getting multiple attacks is almost always based on a full round action.
And you have to take your action before or after you use the move. All the attacks coming form the full round action are part of the ACTION itself. That's why its call a full round ACTION, as in mechanically speaking a single action.
This wouldn't have nay bearing on things like Spring attack.
How did this come u anyway? Of what use was it that the player thought it up i the first place?Gwiber2014-10-06T02:15:46ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftAnguishhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#22019-03-04T05:53:51Z2014-10-06T02:14:11Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mumrah wrote:</div><blockquote><p> We have a rules dilemma in our group.........</p>
<p>Traditionally we've never allowed attacking before AND after a 5ft shift, but having revisited the rules description of the 5ft shift we now believe it might be possible, but not 100% sure.</p>
<p>Please advise on the "Official" ruling on this subject.</p>
<p>What brought all of this on was.....
<br />
Our DM also ref's a game in CT @ a gaming store and someone used that tactic of attacking before, 5ft shifting, then attacking after.</p>
<p>The individual in question quoted, "You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round." as the reason for being able to do so.</p>
<p>If it's true........we've been doing it wrong for sooooo long, haha.</p>
<p>Anyway.......</p>
<p>Thx for any input on this matter. </blockquote><p>You absolutely can. The quote is accurate.
<p><a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#full-attack-action" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Read here.</a></p>
<p>"The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks."</p>
<p>The Core Rulebook specifically tells you that it's allowed. Remember that bad guys can do it too!</p>Mumrah wrote:We have a rules dilemma in our group.........
Traditionally we've never allowed attacking before AND after a 5ft shift, but having revisited the rules description of the 5ft shift we now believe it might be possible, but not 100% sure.
Please advise on the "Official" ruling on this subject.
What brought all of this on was.....
Our DM also ref's a game in CT @ a gaming store and someone used that tactic of attacking before, 5ft shifting, then attacking after.
The individual in...Anguish2014-10-06T02:14:11ZForums: Rules Questions: Attacking Before AND After a 5ft ShiftMumrahhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rken?Attacking-Before-AND-After-a-5ft-Shift#12014-10-06T02:06:44Z2014-10-06T02:06:44Z<p>We have a rules dilemma in our group.........</p>
<p>Traditionally we've never allowed attacking before AND after a 5ft shift, but having revisited the rules description of the 5ft shift we now believe it might be possible, but not 100% sure.</p>
<p>Please advise on the "Official" ruling on this subject.</p>
<p>What brought all of this on was.....
<br />
Our DM also ref's a game in CT @ a gaming store and someone used that tactic of attacking before, 5ft shifting, then attacking after.</p>
<p>The individual in question quoted, "You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round." as the reason for being able to do so.</p>
<p>If it's true........we've been doing it wrong for sooooo long, haha.</p>
<p>Anyway.......</p>
<p>Thx for any input on this matter.</p>We have a rules dilemma in our group.........
Traditionally we've never allowed attacking before AND after a 5ft shift, but having revisited the rules description of the 5ft shift we now believe it might be possible, but not 100% sure.
Please advise on the "Official" ruling on this subject.
What brought all of this on was.....
Our DM also ref's a game in CT @ a gaming store and someone used that tactic of attacking before, 5ft shifting, then attacking after.
The individual in question...Mumrah2014-10-06T02:06:44Z