What feats do you wish existed?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Pandora's wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Nah, mine is more fun, since you get to see overly entitled wizard players frothing at the mouth and rage-quitting.
I get the tongue-in-cheek, but in reality that'd be terrible. Classes need to be made more interesting by allowing more possible actions. I only play wizards because I find martial characters about as engaging as watching paint dry. I shudder at the idea of bringing classes fortunate enough to have options down to their level.

I dunno, I'd rather nerf the broken classes than raise every class up to broken.

Sczarni

How about a feat that grants you an additional 5-ft step during a full attack? Maybe with every iterative attack you get, you also get another extra 5-ft step? Then suddenly "fighting while mobile" starts to look a little more doable, and the mental image of a guy ducking and weaving around enemies and slashing away as he goes can actually be done.

I already mentioned Flying Kick earlier in the thread, but a few other feats that reward monks for charging when they can't flurry would be nice. It'd make their extra speed matter more, and help their to-hit problems when they aren't flurrying.


Kthulhu wrote:
Nah, mine is more fun, since you get to see overly entitled wizard players frothing at the mouth and rage-quitting.

Followed by the fighters rage quitting because now no one is casting protection on evil to protect them from dominate person because the cleric thinks divine favor is more important.


Yeah, I would love to see a feat chain that was five feats long and gave fourth level arcane casting. Prerequisite being no casting and the intelligence necessary to cast spells of that level.

I think that would be fair, given the opportunity cost.


Only Int? I'd prefer it at least be Int/Wis/Cha, whichever's higher.


You could technically make it either arcane or divine and then choose a style, be it spontaneous or prepared and finally choosing a stat that suits the spellcasting style.


as someone who is a big advocate for wis based arcane casting(Thats how my witches work) i don't think even that restriction is necessary


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Limit full casters to level 6 spells and put out this feat tree

Spell Breakthrough
Can now cast and learn 7th level spells

Improved SB
8th level

Greater SB
9th level


Opuk0 wrote:

Limit full casters to level 6 spells and put out this feat tree

Spell Breakthrough
Can now cast and learn 7th level spells

Improved SB
8th level

Greater SB
9th level

I wasn't going to limit all full casters to level 6 spells (although I would make an argument for rebuilding Cleric on an Inquisitor-style chassis, trading out some spellcasting advancement for other cool stuff), but I was thinking of having an Epic Spellcasting feat that unlocks spellcasting at levels beyond your normal maximum. You have to get to at least the Caster Level where you would gain access to another level of spells if everything proceeded linearly (if you can't get a Feat at that character level, usually because it is an even character level, you can take the Feat 1 level before, but it doesn't kick in until you qualify). Then your spell progressions for all spell levels rearrange so that they proceed linearly (ignoring the hiccup that spontaneous full casters have between level 1 and 2 spells, but smoothing out the shortened tail that the highest 1 or 2 levels of spells have -- if you take this as soon as possible, it could mean that you have to temporarily trade out some of your formerly highest level spell slots to get the new highest level spell slots). This does not by itself automatically get you actual knowledge of higher level spells, so you have to come by this some other way (research, discover lore, learn them from somebody, or things like extension of Paladin's Unsanctioned Knowledge Feat), or use the higher level slots for standard spells boosted by Metamagic Feats to need more than your normal highest level spell slots. I wouldn't make this necessary for each spell level after that, but after a suitable delay after you have accumulated a GOOD chunk more of Epic Levels.

For Martials, have something equivalent that unlocks supernatural-seeming abilities, but ones that can still work in an Antimagic Field. Mythic Adventures takes a shot at this, but I don't much like the Mythic implementation overall (note: I also didn't like the D&D 3.5 Epic Handbook implementation overall, although I'd be willing to snag some ideas from both of these).

And unlocking supernatural abilities that still work in an Antimagic Field brings me to a Monster Feat that is needed:

Extraordinary Supernatural Ability: One of your supernatural abilities has become so fundamental to you that you can use it even in a field or area that suppresses supernatural effects. An example in D&D 3.5 was the Beholder's ability to fly, but instead of having this feat, it was just special-case described as working this way. Of course, the Beholder was not OGL, so the issue didn't come up in Pathfinder, although the Soulknife's Mind Blade (converted by Dreamscarred Press) and the Blackfire Adept/Darkfire Adept's Breaching Ability (Paizo Prestige Class) sort of do this, but for them special cases are warranted since they have a >0%, <100% chance of working.


Yeah, mythic class abilities such as from champion and guardian is stuff that pure martial classes should be able to learn rather than necessitating they be brought up to the status of legends, especially when spellcasters can already do so much on their own.

Pathfinder seems incredible biased against martial classes, it's more like bridges for casters to walk on until they get to higher levels and can then do everything a group of fighters can by themselves.

Limiting their spellcasting a bit, I feel, would help to balance them, and introducing the Spell Breakthrough feats stops any argument that they're being nerfed. It also makes 7th level and higher spells into the reality bending bombs that they are by needing dedicated study above what usual spellcasters do.


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Many feats for ranged combat only apply to Bows and Crossbows.

I'd love some more feats that give bonuses to Slings and thrown weapons. To make them a more interesting option.

I also think feats that allow casters to pick up spells from other lists (with reasonable limits of course) should exist.
This option exists already for many casters anyway but it is highly unpractical or difficult in most cases.

All divine casters can get arcane spells via Eldritch Heritage (which requires 3 feats and high level).
Clerics can get certain arcane spells via their domains, but sometimes a thematically fitting spell does not fit within the restrictions of the domain options.
With the White Mage Archetype you can have an arcane healer now as well (Or False Priest to some degree).


Karuth wrote:


I'd love some more feats that give bonuses to Slings and thrown weapons. To make them a more interesting option.

What's next? You want throwing water balloons to be a viable option or something?


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Rynjin wrote:
Karuth wrote:


I'd love some more feats that give bonuses to Slings and thrown weapons. To make them a more interesting option.

What's next? You want throwing water balloons to be a viable option or something?

That answer was already one of the dumbest I've ever read when it came from a Paizo guy. It doesn't get better when repeated.

Slings have been weapons of war for quite some time and a deciding factor in a lot of them. comparing them to waterballoons is like calling that comparison intelligent.

In case this was meant sarcastic: The original statement is still dumb as hell.


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Desperate measures:
Requirements: quick draw, sneak attack 3d6, spellcraft 1 rank
You have survived so far only due to your cat like reflex and instinct.
Benefit: As an immediate action when you hear a spell being cast within 60ft of your position you can draw and throw a thrown weapon towards the spellcaster.
You need one empty hand, or holding only a buckler to do so.
The attack is resolved before the cast is complete forcing a concentration check as per rules.
If the target is within 30ft this attack is a sneak attack.

Reflexive comeback:
Requirements: sneak 5d6, evasion, desperate measures.
You have trained enough to silence the threats against you in the blink of the eye.
Benefit: As an immediate action after succeeding on a sv throw that your evasion applies you can use your momentum from the dodge to move up to your speed.
You can only move towards the source of the originating ability that triggered the saving throw.
If you end your movement adjucent to the source you can make an attack. This attack is a sneak attack.
Alternative you can throw a light thrown weapon in the end of your movement, as per desperate measures.

Scrap for others...
Requirements: trap finding, disable device 3ranks, appraise 3 ranks, black market connections rogue talent
The things people leave around in a dungeon is astonishing...
Benefit: whenever you succeed in disabling a trap by mbeating the DC by more than 5, you can scrounge enough exotic, or valuable material to sell later. You get DC*10 gp per trap when you sell them into a city.
Alternative you can use the items to directly buy an item from your connections. They cost DC*20 is used this way.


Gingerbreadman wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Karuth wrote:


I'd love some more feats that give bonuses to Slings and thrown weapons. To make them a more interesting option.

What's next? You want throwing water balloons to be a viable option or something?

That answer was already one of the dumbest I've ever read when it came from a Paizo guy. It doesn't get better when repeated.

Slings have been weapons of war for quite some time and a deciding factor in a lot of them. comparing them to waterballoons is like calling that comparison intelligent.

In case this was meant sarcastic: The original statement is still dumb as hell.

Yes, yes it is.


Were is this original statement about slings and water balloons you speak of? link?


Dragon78 wrote:
Were is this original statement about slings and water balloons you speak of? link?

He made two postings shortly after one another.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I want my water-balloon-throwing fighter to be able to deal the same damage as a longbow-shooting fighter. Why does Pathfinder have trap options for some ranged characters?
Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Replace "water-balloon-throwing" with any of the following

axe-throwing
blowgun-firing
dagger-throwing
dart-throwing
javelin-throwing
sling-using
spear-throwing

and the complaint is no less ridiculous.

Some options are worse than others because the game actually tries to model that some options in life are worse than others. And by "worse" I mean "does less damage per round."

It was in this thread.


Zhayne wrote:
A feat-based spellcasting system to represent a true dabbler; someone who only learns a small handful of spells, and still have them be useful, without having to commit to multiclassing. Like, say, a fighter who only knows Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance, or a rogue who only knows Invisibility.

Extending the Rogue's magical talents to higher level spells would be easy enough, and Bookish Rogue might make it worthwhile to take them. For the other martials, it would require more work.

Middle Earth Role Playing had a similar system to what you're suggesting (lots of PCs could cast a few spells), and it worked quite well, IMO. I wouldn't mind seeing some "magic dabbler" feats integrated into Pathfinder.


Opuk0 wrote:

Limit full casters to level 6 spells and put out this feat tree

Spell Breakthrough
Can now cast and learn 7th level spells

Improved SB
8th level

Greater SB
9th level

Seems like an unnecessary feat tax. What full caster isn't going to take these feats?

Edit: You may as well just give full casters three less feats.


Umbranus wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
Were is this original statement about slings and water balloons you speak of? link?

He made two postings shortly after one another.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I want my water-balloon-throwing fighter to be able to deal the same damage as a longbow-shooting fighter. Why does Pathfinder have trap options for some ranged characters?
Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Replace "water-balloon-throwing" with any of the following

axe-throwing
blowgun-firing
dagger-throwing
dart-throwing
javelin-throwing
sling-using
spear-throwing

and the complaint is no less ridiculous.

Some options are worse than others because the game actually tries to model that some options in life are worse than others. And by "worse" I mean "does less damage per round."

It was in this thread.

I wasn't aware we were playing a life simulator. Silly me.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Wouldn't a thrown axe do more damage than an arrow? Wouldn't a trained thrower be able to throw them just as quickly as an archer can shoot? Why isn't that represented in the game?

The only drawback for a thrower over an archer, in many cases, should only be range.


In real life a thrown spear is no less deadly than an arrow. So even if we DID play a life simulator that post would be ... less than brilliant.

Shadow Lodge

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Opuk0 wrote:

Limit full casters to level 6 spells and put out this feat tree

Spell Breakthrough
Can now cast and learn 7th level spells

Improved SB
8th level

Greater SB
9th level

Seems like an unnecessary feat tax. What full caster isn't going to take these feats?

Edit: You may as well just give full casters three less feats.

Making it balanced with martial feats."


Kthulhu wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Opuk0 wrote:

Limit full casters to level 6 spells and put out this feat tree

Spell Breakthrough
Can now cast and learn 7th level spells

Improved SB
8th level

Greater SB
9th level

Seems like an unnecessary feat tax. What full caster isn't going to take these feats?

Edit: You may as well just give full casters three less feats.

Making it balanced with martial feats."

I dont see how taking away three feats balances anything, but to each their own.


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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Opuk0 wrote:

Limit full casters to level 6 spells and put out this feat tree

Spell Breakthrough
Can now cast and learn 7th level spells

Improved SB
8th level

Greater SB
9th level

Seems like an unnecessary feat tax. What full caster isn't going to take these feats?

Edit: You may as well just give full casters three less feats.

Making it balanced with martial feats."
I dont see how taking away three feats balances anything, but to each their own.

"If my preffered class is worthless, I'll make all the classes worthless! That'll solve my problems."

Grand Lodge

DominusMegadeus wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Opuk0 wrote:

Limit full casters to level 6 spells and put out this feat tree

Spell Breakthrough
Can now cast and learn 7th level spells

Improved SB
8th level

Greater SB
9th level

Seems like an unnecessary feat tax. What full caster isn't going to take these feats?

Edit: You may as well just give full casters three less feats.

Making it balanced with martial feats."
I dont see how taking away three feats balances anything, but to each their own.
"If my preffered class is worthless, I'll make all the classes worthless! That'll solve my problems."

Yea , don't see how nerfing spellcasters will be a popular option, but to each their own.


Herald wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Opuk0 wrote:

Limit full casters to level 6 spells and put out this feat tree

Spell Breakthrough
Can now cast and learn 7th level spells

Improved SB
8th level

Greater SB
9th level

Seems like an unnecessary feat tax. What full caster isn't going to take these feats?

Edit: You may as well just give full casters three less feats.

Making it balanced with martial feats."
I dont see how taking away three feats balances anything, but to each their own.
"If my preffered class is worthless, I'll make all the classes worthless! That'll solve my problems."
Yea , don't see how nerfing spellcasters will be a popular option, but to each their own.

That's not how you nerf casters. The set of problem spells and the set of spells over sixth level are not the same set and while they do intersect neither is a subset of the other. Also, if you allow access to them at all they're still there breaking the game. Taking away feats fixes nothing and really only serves to screw over the sorcerer and oracle who don't get new slot levels at the same level they get feats.


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So you're telling me being able to create your own dimension shouldn't at least merit a feat?

Shadow Lodge

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My point was that if they applied the same standards to spellcaster feats that they do to martial feats, each one would become a feat chain. Possibly broken down by school as well.


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Opuk0 wrote:
So you're telling me being able to create your own dimension shouldn't at least merit a feat?

No. You already devoted your entire level progression to it.

Besides, creating your own tiny plane is overrated when there are myriad planes already out there for the taking.


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Kthulhu wrote:
My point was that if they applied the same standards to spellcaster feats that they do to martial feats, each one would become a feat chain. Possibly broken down by school as well.

Actually for a new player organizing combat feats into schools would be incredibly helpful. New players and some veterans have trouble finding relevant feats and feat tables only go so far in finding them.


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Rynjin wrote:
Karuth wrote:


I'd love some more feats that give bonuses to Slings and thrown weapons. To make them a more interesting option.

What's next? You want throwing water balloons to be a viable option or something?

Suddenly, I have the urge to make an Alchemist with their bombs refluffed as "water balloons" . . .


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for starters most feat chains need to be made smaller.

p.e.: imp/greater maneuvers changed to:
imp maneuver: gain the benefit the moment you grab the feat. Additionally, at BaB X you gain the benefit of the greater maneuver

mobilty:
additionally at BaB X you gain the benefit of spring attack
additionally at BaB Y you gain the benefit of whirlwind attack

step up:
additionally at Bab X you gain the benfit of step up and strike

weapon focus:
special: if fighter lvl8 you gain an additional +1

weapon spec:
special: if fighter lvl Y you gain an additional +2 damage

and etc

some need straight up buffing:

combat expertise:
the + also applies to reflex saves as well as to acrobatic checks

the above will aloow martials, especially feat heavy ones like fighter to have more free feats. More free feats= more tricks available, or more defences, or more skill focuses, or etc.

so, they gain the versatility they need to cope with casters, 2/3 casters, new martial classes, etc.

They will be trully master of none, dabbler at many forms of war


I think the reserve feats were in Ultimate Mage of 3.5 infamy...

I would like to see a nerfed form of Lyric Spell from 3.5. It allowed Bards to use performance rounds to cast spells instead of spell slots. I would like to see a feat like this:
Lyrical Finale
Cast all finale spells known using bardic performance instead of spell slots.


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Umbranus wrote:
In real life a thrown spear is no less deadly than an arrow. So even if we DID play a life simulator that post would be ... less than brilliant.

It must be true.

According to 3 very vocal people, SKR is a BRILLIANT game designer.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rynjin wrote:
Pan wrote:
Well Mem the thing is not every option is intended to be a viable player option. Some options are extremely situational and intended as NPC abilities or features.
I'm hard pressed to think of why an NPC smart enough to be a crafter would be dumb enough to create something he knows he can't control.

A man who's obviously never watched the Sarah Palin Story

Intelligence does not equal Wisdom. If you eliminate dumb mistakes, you'd eliminate the driving force around a lot of stories.


LazarX wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Pan wrote:
Well Mem the thing is not every option is intended to be a viable player option. Some options are extremely situational and intended as NPC abilities or features.
I'm hard pressed to think of why an NPC smart enough to be a crafter would be dumb enough to create something he knows he can't control.

A man who's obviously never watched the Sarah Palin Story

Intelligence does not equal Wisdom.

As she is neither that may not be the best example, but the sentiment is accurate regardless.


shroudb wrote:

for starters most feat chains need to be made smaller.

p.e.: imp/greater maneuvers changed to:
imp maneuver: gain the benefit the moment you grab the feat. Additionally, at BaB X you gain the benefit of the greater maneuver

mobilty:
additionally at BaB X you gain the benefit of spring attack
additionally at BaB Y you gain the benefit of whirlwind attack

step up:
additionally at Bab X you gain the benfit of step up and strike

weapon focus:
special: if fighter lvl8 you gain an additional +1

weapon spec:
special: if fighter lvl Y you gain an additional +2 damage

and etc

some need straight up buffing:

combat expertise:
the + also applies to reflex saves as well as to acrobatic checks

the above will aloow martials, especially feat heavy ones like fighter to have more free feats. More free feats= more tricks available, or more defences, or more skill focuses, or etc.

so, they gain the versatility they need to cope with casters, 2/3 casters, new martial classes, etc.

They will be trully master of none, dabbler at many forms of war

plox


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Fourshadow wrote:
I think the reserve feats were in Ultimate Mage of 3.5 infamy...

Complete Mage was the name of that book.


I liked Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting. A feat to reduce a -4 penalty to -2 never seemed overpowered for me. (I'd use it to, say, dual-wield longswords. Never used it in combination with Monkey Grip, though, because my Monkey Grip characters and my dual-wield characters never merged into one character)


shroudb wrote:

for starters most feat chains need to be made smaller.

}. . .}

Alternatively, let Fighters of a certain level and above start getting Bonus Feat Chains of 2 Feats and eventually of 3 Feats instead of just Bonus Feats, and swapping out a Feat that was in one of these chains in favor of the chain doesn't count against your limit of Feat swapping. This would help higher level Fighters keep up with other martials. (For lower levels, give them d12 HD and 4 Skill Points per Level, except that Archetypes that already get 4 Skill Points per Level instead get 6 Skill Points per Level.)


Rynjin wrote:
Umbranus wrote:
In real life a thrown spear is no less deadly than an arrow. So even if we DID play a life simulator that post would be ... less than brilliant.

It must be true.

According to 3 very vocal people, SKR is a BRILLIANT game designer.

In fairness, he did put up a post on his blog more-or-less retracting the whole water balloons thing.


Chengar Qordath wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Umbranus wrote:
In real life a thrown spear is no less deadly than an arrow. So even if we DID play a life simulator that post would be ... less than brilliant.

It must be true.

According to 3 very vocal people, SKR is a BRILLIANT game designer.

In fairness, he did put up a post on his blog more-or-less retracting the whole water balloons thing.

If you make a silly statement on TV you don't retract it on some backwater newspaper.

Edit: This is not only because I don't like the fact that some kinds of weapons get no support but that this comment by SKR was seriously offensive and insulting.


Never forget, that was the man who made a feat "point buy" system that made weapon focus cost 10 points and metamagic feats 5. Because weapon focus was supposed to be the baseline for all feats, and clearly all metamagic feats are worth half as much as weapon focus. I'd link to it, but there's a slightly passive-aggressive rant that replaced it here.


Bob Bob Bob wrote:
Never forget, that was the man who made a feat "point buy" system that made weapon focus cost 10 points and metamagic feats 5. Because weapon focus was supposed to be the baseline for all feats, and clearly all metamagic feats are worth half as much as weapon focus. I'd link to it, but there's a slightly passive-aggressive rant that replaced it here.

I could see that cost but then I'd make the metamagic only usable with one spell.


Everybody wants dex to damage. I want Str or Con to AC. Naked barbarians should be a thing.


haruhiko88 wrote:
Everybody wants dex to damage. I want Str or Con to AC. Naked barbarians should be a thing.

That would be neat. And with dex to damage it would be in line for the cost of two feats.


I'd take Con added to DR. That would be great for a naked barbarian.


Rynjin wrote:
Karuth wrote:


I'd love some more feats that give bonuses to Slings and thrown weapons. To make them a more interesting option.
What's next? You want throwing water balloons to be a viable option or something?

There are some feats where limitations to certain type of ranged weapons is logical (such as Prone Shooter only working with crossbows and firearms)

But for others the limitation seems unnecessary.

Focused Shot for example. It is a single attack that allows you to add int to damage. It has similar limitations as a sneak attack (range 30ft, sneak attack immunity protects from this ability).
The name and the mechanic implies that instead of making many attacks you take your time and look for a particular vulnerable spot.
This feels like it should work for a thrown dagger as well. For slings I could understand not being included, because you'd have to whirl the sling around while you are aiming.

Although in searching for examples, I found they have already added some more feats I didn't know yet.
However, there is only 1 racial feat for Halflings that apply to slings and none that apply to the sling staff.


blahpers wrote:
ryric wrote:
blahpers wrote:
A feat that makes channeling work like it did in previous editions--heal & harm all within the radius according to their energy affinitiy.

While I think this would be a fine feat, only during the Pathfinder beta did channeling work that way. Channeling was introduced for Pathfinder so in "previous editions" it did not exist. In 3.5 and earlier it was Turn Undead.

I'd like a feat to boost item crafting speed. My experience is that the real limit on item creation is the time required to make anything high level. Not many APs or campaigns give the players the months of downtime needed to craft high level items.

Damn, you're right. Where am I remembering/inventing this from?

You may be thinking of the Envoy of Balance prestige class. They get Twinned Channeling, which seems similar to what you're recalling.

Twinned Channeling:
Twinned Channeling: When channeling energy, the envoy of balance can simultaneously release waves of positive and negative energy. She chooses a category of creatures (either living or undead), and this conjoined energy both heals and harms the affected creatures. Roll the amounts of damage healed and dealt separately. Treat the envoy of balance's effective cleric level as 2 lower than normal for the amounts of damage and the DC to halve damage taken. The envoy of balance can choose whether to include herself in either or both the healing and harming effects. If she has an ability that allows her to exclude targets from her channeled energy, such as the Selective Channelling feat, she can choose to exclude different targets from the healing effect than from the harming effect. An envoy of balance must possess the spiritual equilibrium endowment to choose this endowment.

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