Suggestions for Alternative Methods of Increasing Ability Scores

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Goblin Squad Member

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Today is the day that I make more than one thread. It's a strange feeling.

I have become convinced that acquiring Feats as the exclusive way to increase Ability Scores is not a good idea. This is certainly a biased opinion, because as a pure crafter I find the notion of training Armor or Attack feats to increase my ability scores somewhere between annoying and and rage-quit inducing.

So I've been thinking of things that I believe could help alleviate this problem. - Before I get a bunch of people jumping on me to make sure I am aware that the current ability score requirements will be tweaked: Yeah, I know. These are ideas I want to talk about. Crowdforging and such.

Anyway -

At first I was thinking perhaps it would be better if we simply had more feats under each role, to at least allow us to feel like we are not having to stretch outside of our discipline to advance. If - for example - we added a few feats to the smeltmill that grant Constitution while also granting a minor bonus (reduced refining time for Ingots of all kinds, perhaps) then at least I wouldn't be spending XP unnecessarily on Shield Bash or something else I will get absolutely no other use out of. Perhaps (for refiners) there could be feats that increase the chances of getting a bonus + on their recipes.

I still like the idea - fleshing out the idea of being a Smelter from a 1-feat progression to one where you can further specialize seems like an idea with value. (Obviously the idea would extend to other refining and true crafting, as well.)

But then it occurred to me that while Spells and Maneuvers cost XP to learn, crafting recipes do not - and perhaps they should. After all, right now there is no reason for a crafter not to learn any recipe they come across and qualify for.

Perhaps recipes should cost XP to learn, and perhaps we should get incremental Ability Score gains from Recipes, Spells, and Maneuvers alike.

Why not gain a little Personality from learning Burning Hands? Why not some Wisdom from learning Aid? Why not some Strength from learning Pot Steel Plate?

I believe this would be good for the game - to make the Ability Score gates more easily handled - and more importantly, because it makes sense that these are the things that advance you.

I'm curious if anyone else has had any similar ideas, or if anyone sees any glaring holes in this. (And 'golly, that would be a lot of work for GW to implement' doesn't count as a hole. Any change will require work from the development team - it's up to them to decide if it's too much.)

Goblin Squad Member

Do spells and maneuvers increment ability scores ? I have about 8 or more cleric spells learnt - but have never looked to see if they bumped my wisdom.

Extra feats would also help though too much of a feat tree will have new players whining about how they can never catch up.

The other biggie will be balancing the table so that learning higher levels gives a sufficiently bigger bump to keep you on track.

Goblin Squad Member

I do not believe that spells or maneuvers currently increase ability scores - but I do believe having them do so would make sense.

I agree that too much of a feat tree could be an issue, but I think we could reasonably break down the crafting skills into a few different specializations in the same way that a fighter has weapon specializations, a wizard has a school, and a cleric has domains. (Do rogues have anything like that right now? Hmm.)

And yeah - the table balancing is currently our big issue now. Adding more things is bound to complicate it, but hopefully it will be mostly helpful.

Goblin Squad Member

KoTC Edam Neadenil wrote:
Do spells and maneuvers increment ability scores ?

Most do. Some of the lower level ones don't.

You can see this in the Expendables Advancement tab of the PFO Wiki - Official Data spreadsheet at Pathfinder Online (Public). If you can't see that spreadsheet directly, look at the "Copy of" it.

<Kabal>Keign wrote:

I still like the idea - fleshing out the idea of being a Smelter from a 1-feat progression to one where you can further specialize seems like an idea with value. (Obviously the idea would extend to other refining and true crafting, as well.)

Seems like a very awesome idea. It could even be the root of the issue.

Then, you'd have to lock certain things though... which is good for me as well. Like if someone wanted to be a silversmith well maybe they wouldn't be so good with iron. OR... let's say this, because in this game we want to be able to 'not be limited.' The progression of a silversmith would eclipse talent with iron in a way that it would seem as though they weren't 'specced to use iron.'

Wouldn't that be getting closer to the crafting system we (or *I*) want? "Why I think I can make the best great swords in the game...!"

Then, you could also split things in a way that would allow you to be JUST a weapon smith and use hammer crafts, sword crafts, and spear crafts to get your achievement points.

And they could synergize... like if you are expertly smelting with a material, you should be able to use it, at some level, in the low level crafts. Like if you are IRONMAN you should be able to bang out a potsteel even if you are only armor1. That sort of thing would make happy.

I know I took your idea and totally ran with it. But whatever...

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